LexFather

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http://www.caranddriver.com/article....ticle_id=10524

spwolf

hopefully lutz doesnt get an heart attack when he reads it...

Och

iTrader: (3)

Why, is that a comparo? If so, they got it exactly backwards - in my opinion it should be like this.

1) Element: Ugly on the outside, but has incredible utility on the inside, great for camping, and actually based on an excellent Accord platform with decent engine. I would never buy one for myself, but if I needed inexpensive utility, it would be my top choice.

2) PT Cruiser: Incredibly ugly on the outside, but it's virtually a neon on the inside, basic transportation. Not something I would ever consider, in fact I'll never come near one, but there are idiots that enjoy driving stupid looking cars. Perfect for them.

3) HHR: This has got to be one of the ugliest cars on earth. In fact, it is so ugly on the outside, that I don't even care what the inside looks like. The car was created for complete morons, because anybody with half a brain would never buy one.

4) Scion xB: The ugliest car ever created. I too ugly for me to take a crap into it, never mind driving one. I only see these things driving in ghetto area's of Brooklyn, rolling on chrome wheels and blasting crap music. Serves these morons right.

LexFather

And that is why your don't work for a major magazine lol. The Element missed its target market by over 20 years, its 4th place finish shows why. But they are selling for Honda, so that is a good thing

As for the Brooklyn comment, I am going to stoop to your level and say I see 80 year olds in Suburbia driving their Element, with unpainted bumpers and steel wheels with no music playing and large V-tech and Type-R stickers. I won't say they are morons but no better than the people u seem to hate in BROOKLYN.

tofu_house

iTrader: (2)

hahaha don't pay too much attention to what Och's saying...

he's been saying crap like this since the beginning... if he doesn't like it... it's filthy.

Och

iTrader: (3)

Well, I've seen other comparos where Element finished in first place, I believe one of these was in R&T. I'm not exactly sure what it's target market was suposed to be, I presume you mean ricer kids, but I would say its a good thing that it missed it by 20 years, this way these kids wont give the car a bad image.

In any case, regardless of the target market, or the 4th place it's got in this compare, its has a lot going for it, particularly:

1) Most cargo space, most utility and versatility.
2) Accord platform, which is clearly superior to corolla, neon, or whatever the hell GM is using.
3) Accord engine, same as above.
4) It's not as ugly as the rest of the cars.
5) It sells pretty well.
6) People actually buy it for utility, not for "bling bling".

Just to make things clear, I am from Brooklyn myself, and the comment I made is for people from ghetto parts of Brooklyn, infested with projects, drugs, prostitution, crime, etc - these are the only places where I see people driving xB's. You wont find many xB's in upscale neighborhoods.

As far as comparing 80 years olds from Suburbia to ghetto thugs from Brooklyn... No comment.

mmarshall

I greatly respect Car and Driver's opinions on just about any auto comparison test. They are an excellent magazine and easily my favorite, quality-wise, of the " enthusiast " mags. ( though, as I've said before, you can have Brock Yates ). Their comparison write-ups and editorial language have influenced my own review style more than any other magazine. ( though, of course, I don't play copy-cat; I think for myself ).

Having said that that, I agree with most but not all of their conclusions. I have looked at and driven all 4 of these vehicles myself ( except for the PT Cruiser...I drove a non-turbo version ) ...though not necessarily done write ups on them.

Their comments about the HHR's overly-cheap plastic interior and exterior trim were right on the mark....as were the odd location ( and design ) of the power window switches. I also noticed the roly-poly handling and the less than total sense of control. And the seats, while versatile, were not as versatile as its competitiors. I know that styling is a matter of personal taste...I have to disagree with Och. I am a big fan of the HHR's looks, if not its quality. And the sales figures show that apparantly a lot of people agree.

I don't have experience with the PT Cruiser Turbo or the chrome-laden model they describe, ( only the base model ) but most of their other comments are pretty much on the mark for the Cruiser in general. Underneath the Beach-Wagon body style lies basically a Neon....but a well-done one. Its interior, while still somewhat plasticky, is a notch above the HHR's.

The Scion, yes, is versatile, low-priced, simple, economical, and well-built, ( and deserves kudos for that ) but I think they rate the odd center-mount gauge stack and the brick-like exterior styling a little too highly. Both of those features definitely turn me off....but as I said above, styling is a matter of personal taste....and the shoe-box styling does add to space efficiency. The low ground clearance, however, ( something they did not bring up ) and lack of an AWD option will limit its usefulness in snowstorms. For the price, though, this vehicle does a lot...and, of course, is well-built with Toyota quality. and one thing they did not mention was that unlike the others, all Scions sell for list price with no haggle....which makes them easy to purchase in the showroom.

Though it is far from pretty, IMO it hard to beat the Element in many ways. It has build-quality that is pretty much a match for the Scion, an AWD option for foul weather, and can carry quite a bit.....with versatility. The rubber flooring material and waterproof fabric seats also make clean-ups a cinch....as long as you keep the water out from under the dash where it will screw up the instruments. But Car and Driver is correct that it is a PITA to have to go through all those contortions just to get the small back doors open and let people in or out. And while there many different ways of removing and re-configuring the seats, it also can be quite complex and involved trying to remember them all....and how to do it.

So...in a nutshell, I basically agree with their findings except that both the Scion and the Element have some good features that they did not mention, and I think they rate the Scion's dash and styling too highly.

LEXUS FAN!

C&D got it right...

my car's NUMBER 1

mmarshall

You are correct, MIke, that the Element did in fact miss its target-age range by quite a bit. For example, my 40-year-old colleague at work just recently bought one ( among other vehicles ) for him and his wife. But I don't quite see how that affects the ratings or how that figures into the Element's 4th place finish. Car and Driver comparison tests compare vehicles against each other, not necessarily buyers.

sha4000

iTrader: (1)

thats real funny b/c i actually come from the projects originally in dowtown brooklyn and i NEVER see any of those carts ANYWHERE and i dont really appreciate you making that kind of comment. you obviously have some bad experiences in the the streets of brooklyn and i can just imagine what they might have been. I just wonder what part of brooklyn you are from?

Och

iTrader: (3)

Haven't had too many bad experiences, besides having my car broken into twice, once inside of UA Sheepsheadbay theaters parking lot, and once by Lincoln High School.

Right now I live in Seagate, a gated community in the very end of Coney Island, so basically I drive through Coney Island every day, (Coney Island is a project infested ghetto), and I see a bunch of xB's around there.

Also, I work around Cypress Hill area, and there's a bunch of these things around there and Starrett City.

Whether you appreciate it or not, but it's hard to deny that "bling bling" is popular in ghettos, and apparently xB attracts the "bling bling" generation.

Since I've answered your questions about myself, I hope you don't mind me asking you one. How come you live in projects and drive a Lexus? Wouldn't you rather put that money towards living in a better area and drive a cheaper car?

tofu_house

iTrader: (2)

I believe he said that he came from the projects... i don't think that necessarily implies the fact that he still lives there... although thats only my impression.

and I may not be from brooklyn and I don't know how things are up there but down here in philly... you're not "bling bling" if you drive around a scion xb... most of the "blingers" down here drive around benz's, lexus, bmw and caddy's with big 20 inch rims... i think thats what you call "bling bling".

but anyways... all this is beside the point...

if you guys want to continue this convo... just take it to PM... and lets stay on topic.