Leets

My suggestion:

Acura needs to stop US-badging the Honda Integra. Honda NA should use the Integra the same way that it's used in Japan... as a Civic coupe. I still don't understand how Acura actually tries to pawn off a upscale-economy coupe as something worthy of a "Luxury" marque. There's a reason Lexus never sold a rebadged Celica.

SteVTEC

This is just so incredibly true. For the past 15 or so years Honda had been talking so much trash about how they don't need bigger displacements, V8 engines, or turbochargers as if all of that stuff was "cheating" because their NA smaller displacement higher revving engines with VTEC are more than enough for anybody. It was brilliant marketing that also won them legions of loyal customers. Instead of continually improving and innovating they got smug and lazy though and now a lot of other manufacturers are more than happy to demonstrate how empty a lot of these claims are.

- VW/Audi's 1.8T/2.0FSI are outstanding and state of the art in every respect. They've always had excellent power delivery, torque characteristics, and efficiency to boot. The 1.8T was also the first ULEV certified turbocharged engine in 1999. There are tons of other smaller displacement turbocharged engines proving this also and Honda is getting their clock cleaned.

- With their displacement on demand technology, Detroit has proven that just because you have a V8 doesn't mean it's going to be less efficient than a high-po V6. The DCX HEMI and a number of GM's V8 engines with DoD get similar mileage to high-po import V6 engines despite being significantly more powerful. The new GMC Yukon with a 5.3L 300hp/330tq V8 gets the same mileage as Honda's Ridgeline with only a 3.5L V6 and 240ish hp/tq, and it's also a far more capable truck than Honda's.

Their SOHC VTEC system in the RL is also 10+ years old, originally developed for the Honda Civic, and falls well short of the capabilities of other much more modern VVT systems, especially BMW's Valvetronic system. This is not befitting of a "flagship" car for Acura at all.

mmarshall

When you compare Acura and Lexus, though, it is not just a comparison of the vehicles themselves. Lexus never sold a rebadged Celica partly because the Lexus average buyer age is significantly older than Acura's. Acura found, long ago, that starting with the Integra there was a market for entry-level models sharing Civic platforms. Indeed, certain versions and model years of the Integra ( like the Civic ) became tuner, cult, and " slammer " cars.

SteVTEC

This I actually disagree with, and the J-series v6 came out before that too, in the 1997 Acura 3.0CL. Nissan's VQ came out in 1995 and there's still plenty of life left in that lineup too. The only thing their current top-spec VQ engines lack is fuel efficiency, but that could be solved with more advanced dual-VVT and direct injection tech, all of which they've had deployed overseas previously, just not in the US. They hit a home run on the architecture and it can stretch from displacements as small as 2.0L to as big as 4.0L now. Toyota may have been able to keep their MZ series V6 around for longer but I guess it just didn't have the flexibility they needed (like the VQ) so they went for an all-new engine.

As far as Honda's J3xA engines, I think there's plenty of untapped potential left in the engine. It's still only using SOHC VTEC which is 10+ years old and obsolescent, and still only port injection. Honda could easily create a "J3xB" engine with DOHC heads, dual-VVT, direct injection, internal EGR, and it would be probably about as good as the Lexus 2GR-FSE in the IS350. I don't think they can punch it out to 4.0L for truck duty though as Nissan was able to with the VQ, and Toyota with the GR.

The fact that Honda is paying so little attention to their V6 engines tells me that either

a) they just don't care
b) they're delusional and still think they're the best (at least internally amongst themselves)
c) none of the above, and there is in fact something very new and exciting on the way

Skulinex

Same thing i was about to say, actually i would switch the S2000 with the RSX brand wise

ST430

Having owned an S2K for all of 5 months, I do agree that Honda has done a wonderful job tuning the most out of their 4 bangers. BUT, part of the problem IS the transmission, Honda has not built a reliable auto tranny to handle the additional torque generated by V6's (see the numerous Acura TSBs)...I'm sure it's going to be even tougher to try to come up with one for FE/RWD V8 appication.

Och

iTrader: (3)

I was refering to Honda's manual trannies - they are incredible. Their automatic trannies are blah.

D2-AUTOSPORT

Very well said. The no V8 engine thing is like playing full court basketball in Timberland boots while everyone else wears athletic sneakers, and then complaining about hampered performance. The funny thing is, Acura is so stubborn, they just keep making lighter and nicer boots, rather than puttiing some damn Air Jordans on!! LOL

LexLaw

I think that sums it up folks.

J.P.

Acura has two issues and it's beyond the first level of product\style.

1. From the get, they didn't PUSH the brand to be viewed at the level of BMW\MB.

2. You can try to be something in the marketplace, but it doesn't mean you will be. The consumer will decide and they have chosen to view Acura as 2nd rate choice in the market that they want to be in. The screw up here, is that they are still trying to get to that higher level.

Now after what 15+ years of a poorly executed plan to enter the market, they are stuck.

It will be nearly impossible to get away from the brand they directly or indirectly built.

The smart thing to do now would be to capitalize on the market you are in and turn a profit. You have that lower end \ middle market luxury segment.

You can keep trying to be BMW\MB\LEXUS\etc etc but you never will be.

And while you keep trying, a company like Hyundai is going to be aggressive in pursuing that middle luxury market with a new brand then you’re really going to be screwed.

Lexmex

We now have Acura (MDX, TL & RL) down here in Mexico. I know someone at the dealership that is a stone's throw away from my place and he repeats exactly what my friends keep saying, they look too much like Honda's. A lot my friends with Civic VTECs got that car due to the fact Integras never came here nor did the RSX (still not here). Given cars are way overpriced compared to the states, it is a tough sell. Another thing often mentioned, is the lines are way too straight compare to other luxury brands. This reminds me of Volvos in the 80s.

I got into a big debate and fight with my Japanese car club members for the NSX (which was the car of the week that week). I told them they could do much better for 280 hp by not spitting out all that cash as it was just plain underpowered. We compromised and did turbo NSXs and supercharged NSXs the following week. Still, the quality is there, they just need to upgrade in a few areas.

LexFather

Bingo. Even they admitted, most TL people cross shopped their own Accord more than any other car. So they are selling VERY well, but its just not the buyer they really want. So basically the reviews in C&D, etc are all for nothing, since the actual BUYER doesn't cross-shop with the 3, IS, C, etc.

The funny thing is, I don't and will never have a problem with Acura as long as they just keep going after niches, 200k a year is nothing to sneeze at, even if your brand has the lowest MSRP of any luxury brand.

Which again, is a total oxymoron to this segment.

But they insist of selling cars they want us to call luxury and sport and they just are not (outside the NSX as sport). They continuosly continue to basically do the EXACT OPPOSITE of what the leaders are doing.

I could understand if the leaders, BMW, Benz, Lexus, had it all wrong. Thing is they don't, they have it all right.

I just don't understand how they can make ANOTHER press release and tell us to our face "we are going to make you call us luxury, though we are the only brand with mostly FWD and no V-8".

Hell even Volvo has them now.

More than anything, they will need to watch out for Infiniti (with what 130k sales last year), the Lincolns, Volvos, Saabs, Hyundais as they get better.

Hell honestly, the new Toyota Camry exceeds the TL in everything outside styling.

A Camry.

GSquicksilver

i've been debating with honda lovers for many years now about how honda's are going to screw themselves over with their approach to cars. having only front wheel drive and being hard headed about not making a V8 will kill them. today's market wants muscle, power. they don't want a dinky 4 or 6 cylinder front wheel drive when they can have a juicy v8 RWD. yes, their smaller engines can perform pretty well compared to some V8's, but do you know they have to go nearly redline before they can get the pull of the v8's.

when i went to the la autoshow this year, i finally saw the new honda ridgeline pickup. i popped the hood hoping to see if they finally made a real RWD vehicle. NOPE. disapointed. their engine was placed as a front wheel drive engine, with the drive belts to the side. who the hell would want a FWD pickup? that is just sad.

HONDA, GET WITH THE PROGRAM. START MAKING V8'S AND RWD AND STOP COMPLAINING LIKE A B*TCH.

Lexmex

I wonder if it something with reworking the R&D so much with a V8. They have not had too many years with the MDX (or that horrible SLX) and the Ridgeline, but you think a V8 should have been in the plans of those vehicles.

Remember BMW and the X5, that did not take too long to tune that V8 right.

J.P.

Fact is they can throw in RWD, A V8 , you name it. It will not do anything for them.

After 15 years, the brand is built, they spent to much time and cash trying to bring it up to a new level, the public keeps throwing it up like they killed 12 shrimps and they are allergic to shell fish.

Next product cycle, build the cars for less, sell the cars for less and take over that middle market rather then wasting money on becoming something you cannot.

At this point it would be easier for them to start a higher end brand then it will be for them to turn Acura into a competitor with the other players.