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Another Acura press release:Acura wants a stronger image (New York Newsday)

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Old 02-05-06, 10:15 AM
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Default Another Acura press release:Acura wants a stronger image (New York Newsday)

Acura wants a stronger image



BY KATHY JACKSON
AUTOWEEK

February 5, 2006


DETROIT - Overshadowed by Lexus, BMW and Mercedes-Benz, Acura needs a stronger identity, says **** Colliver, executive vice president of sales at American Honda Motor Co.

"We're not on all the shopping lists we'd like to be," he said at the recent Detroit auto show. "So we have to bring the right product."

To elevate Acura's presence, Honda Motor Co. will open a design studio for Acura near Honda's U.S. headquarters in Torrance, Calif., in 2007. Acura and Honda designers now share a studio.

Although Acura has enjoyed healthy sales in recent years, data from Compete Inc. in Boston illustrate Acura's problem. Compete, a marketing research firm, says the $33,000 Acura TL, the brand's best seller, was cross-shopped with the Honda Accord more than any other model the past year.

"Ideally, they'd like to see that be Infiniti or Lexus," says Lincoln Merrihew, who heads the automotive division at Compete. "There's too much overlap between Honda and Acura. That's more to the detriment of Acura."

Colliver said the new studio's designers will create only Acura products. They also will work with the ad agency and Acura product planners so that everyone is in sync on where the brand needs to go.

In addition to fresh styling, Colliver said, the company wants to position Acura as a luxury brand with unique technology and performance.

"We're not chasing Lexus. It is not our intent to be everything to everybody," he said. "We will stress performance and advanced technology. This is part of our long-term goal to separate Acura from Honda - to develop Acura as a global brand."

Acura is sold only in this country. It was launched in 1986, the first Asian luxury brand sold in the United States. It plans to start sales in Japan in 2008.

U.S. sales of Acuras last year were 209,610, up 5.4 percent from 2004 and up 46.9 percent from 2000. For comparison, Lexus posted U.S. sales of 302,895 last year.

Colliver said it will probably be about 2010 before the world sees the first Acura created at the design center, but he gave some hints about where the brand is headed.

The executive said the company still has no plans to offer a V-8 engine but is leaning toward all-wheel drive. Today, only the MDX sport utility vehicle and the RL sedan are equipped with all-wheel drive. The new RDX, a small SUV that goes on sale this summer, also will have all-wheel drive and is equipped with Acura's first turbocharged engine.

The NSX sports car, which will be redesigned before the end of the decade, will be powered by a 10-cylinder engine. "The new NSX gives us an opportunity to expand with the 10-cylinder," Colliver said.

He also said the company wants to appeal to more male customers.
 
Old 02-05-06, 10:22 AM
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1. Didn't they have a press release very similar to this like last month.
2. Is it just me, or the blueprint is there, laid out by BMW and Benz, which Lexus clearly follows. RWD and V-8s. Bigger and going upscale, not down. Acura causes their own issue, so why are they complaining?
3. A V-10 NSX no one is going to buy is coming, but no V-8 sedan? So they are going to sell a low volume car again, makes no sense.
4. If they were smart they would at least chase Lexus. Instead of going their own way, which clearly works for increased sales as of late, but as even they admit, they are barely a luxury brand.

Its really not hard:
1.Get out the non-luxury 15k-30k market.
2. AWD is nice, but RWD is the way, it has been for decades now.
3. V-8s in your sedans, heck put the NSX V-10 in a sedan. ANything.
4. Styling


To be honest, the world is just saturated with luxury brands and there just is no more room to be a top tier brand. Globally, its Benz/BMW/Audi/Lexus. Everyone else is just an afterthought.
 
Old 02-05-06, 03:06 PM
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I didn't make the Detroit Show, but spent 3 days at the Washington DC show, and this was one of the main points I brought up there with the Acura people there. I pointed out , more than once, ( different staffers at the display ) that Acura to some extent shot themselves in the foot by not putting a V8 in the new RL. Not that there is anything really wrong with the V6 and its 290-300 HP, but the 260 ft.-lbs of torque, especially with the added weight and drag of the SH AWD system, is just not competitive with the V8's in most of its competitiors. I also pointed out how the car was not selling well and that Acura dealers have had to offer large incentives to move them ( which they did not deny ). I also pointed out that Honda's policy of transverse sideways-mount for their engines need not be a problem either........Cadillac and Lincoln have both used sideways-mount V8's with FWD, as has the Ford Taurus SHO, Pontiac GXP, the Buick Lucerne, the new 2006 Chevy Impala SS, and others. And, of course, for some designs, a V8 / RWD combo would be even better.....the Acura people didn't actually say this, but I suspect that the company doesn't want to have to deal with the torque steer problems of V8 / FWD combos. But the main problem seems to be in the corporate thinking at Honda and Acura.....I got the more or less same responses from the Honda people when I pointed out the lack of a V8 for the Honda Ridgeline, and how Toyota had to learn from years of making that same mistake with its trucks. Both the Honda and Acura people said more or less the same thing.....corporate thinking is that V8's aren't necessary....the company just isn't going to do it, at least for regular cars, though the next NSX may have one. They said that they still don't know if the next NSX, if it is fact OK'ed for the American market, will have a V8 or a V10....but other than that wee mum on details.

The rest of the Acura line, though, seems to be doing pretty well, sales-wise. I don't have the latest sales figures ( I'm sure you and LexArazzo will post them ).

Well, enough about cars for a least a few hours......gotta go watch the Super Bowl. Go Steelers.

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Old 02-05-06, 03:55 PM
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Thank goodness 1SickLex watches out for Acura news like a hawk, otherwise I would miss all KINDS of things!
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Old 02-05-06, 04:32 PM
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[QUOTE=1SICKLEX]
Its really not hard:
1.Get out the non-luxury 15k-30k market.
2. AWD is nice, but RWD is the way, it has been for decades now.MAybe they want to be the Japanese Audi ??
3. V-8s in your sedans, heck put the NSX V-10 in a sedan. ANything.
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Old 02-05-06, 05:16 PM
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Originally Posted by Iceman
Thank goodness 1SickLex watches out for Acura news like a hawk, otherwise I would miss all KINDS of things!
Part of the problem with Acura is that there just hasn't BEEN a whole lot of news.
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Old 02-05-06, 05:23 PM
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Originally Posted by 1SICKLEX


The executive said the company still has no plans to offer a V-8 engine
The NSX sports car, which will be redesigned before the end of the decade, will be powered by a 10-cylinder engine. "The new NSX gives us an opportunity to expand with the 10-cylinder," Colliver said.

.
Still hard to believe. The Acura people just a couple of days ago said it was once again on hold.
Personally, guys....forgive me for sounding arrogant, but I'll believe it when I see it.
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Old 02-05-06, 05:54 PM
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Originally Posted by mmarshall
Still hard to believe. The Acura people just a couple of days ago said it was once again on hold.
What Acura people are you referring to ?
Originally Posted by mmarshall
Personally, guys....forgive me for sounding arrogant, but I'll believe it when I see it.
I tend to think the same too unfortunately, but if they really make a V10 NSX, I would anticipate it more than the LF-A & the GT-R ( I don't really like what I saw of the latter 2 so far, although a V10 Lexus sounds awesome), especially if it looks anything like this :
Attached Thumbnails Another Acura press release:Acura wants a stronger image (New York Newsday)-000.jpg  
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Old 02-05-06, 07:24 PM
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After reading this passage, I feel hopeless for Acura. It took them twenty years and still don't get it. AWD is not the solution for a luxury brand. Good designs and stylings can't do it by themselves. A true luxury car company needs a combination of several basic requirements in my opinion. Unique, eye-catching, but handsome styling, overall good quality of the vehicle both mechanically and electronically(but mostly mechanically), more advanced technologies than the non-luxury automakers even these technologies are not that important in real life usage, Very strong engine choices with enough horsepower for owners to brag with, excellent warranty and dealer services, and years and years of good reputation, etc. Fuel economy is not the issue for a luxury car company, don't those Acura executives know it? I still do not see the reason they keep trying to avoid the use of RWD in their sedans. FWD is good for low torque vehicles, once the car gets up to 250hp, FWD isn't good anymore. AWD is a solution, but there is no doubt the weight would increase drastically. Look at RL, which is only equipped with a 3.5L V6, already weights at 4000lbs. For the areas where snowing and even raining rarely occur, no need for AWD, but RL forces you to have it, no wonder RL stays at the bottom of the mid-level luxury sedan sales month after month. For a luxury sedan with high torque and horsepower, RWD is the best solution so far. AWD could be an option, but not a must. If Lexus is so successful, all Acura needs to do is follow it, tries to strike whatever Lexus offers model by model. Look at Nissan, their Altima before the current one was always smaller than the Camry and Accord, so its sales couldn't go up. But once Nissan pushed the current Altima out to the market, the sales keep going up, now in the top ten best selling car in the U.S. Yes Acura is overlapping with Honda, TL and TSX are both overlapping with Honda Accord sedan six and four cylinder models. MDX is like Pilot, just with differnt badge and look. RSX is too low-priced to be considered a luxury vehicle. What luxury vehicle in today's market still doesn't offer HIDs and Navi as an option at least? Acura is trying to be a Japanese Audi, wants to be special. Yeah look at Audi right now, their sales number is not that much more than Porsche in this country. A V10 NSX sounds great, but only for a very small group of rich die-hard car enthusiasts. How much can it help the brand? I say not much. Plus, a ultra-high-performance sports car(or super exotic car) has nothing to do with "luxury". Right now Mazda has more characters than Acura, so that makes me not interested in any Acura vehicle if I plan to buy a luxury vehicle. The true luxury automakers in the U.S. today are Mercedes-Benz, BMW, and Lexus. The rest all have their own problems. Even Acura follows Lexus' route, there is no guarantee for it to be as successful. But sometimes I think is it necessay to have so many luxury brands? Honda is doing great, so may be gets rid of Acura and let all Acuras stay as Honda?
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Old 02-05-06, 09:28 PM
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Originally Posted by mmarshall
I also pointed out that Honda's policy of transverse sideways-mount for their engines need not be a problem either........Cadillac and Lincoln have both used sideways-mount V8's with FWD, as has the Ford Taurus SHO, Pontiac GXP, the Buick Lucerne, the new 2006 Chevy Impala SS, and others. And, of course, for some designs, a V8 / RWD combo would be even better.....the Acura people didn't actually say this, but I suspect that the company doesn't want to have to deal with the torque steer problems of V8 / FWD combos.
What is interesting is I don't believe transverse mounted engines are an Honda/Acura policy. They just build it that way for now with their V6 engines. It makes sense for their I4 and even for a V6 up to a certain point. Now that higher HP is coming out of the V6 it might be time to switch back to longitudinal mounted engines. Remember, Acura did have longitudinal mounted engines from 1992-1997 in 4 different models. The 2.5 I5 in the Vigor, the 3.2 V6 in the Legend, the 2.5 I5 in the 2.5TL, and the 3.2 V6 in the 3.2TL. After the instroduction of the J series engines in 1999 they switched back to transverse V6 engines. The J series engines IMHO is on its last leg as it has been out for 8 years since it came out in the 1998 Accord.
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Old 02-05-06, 09:32 PM
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Acura needs to do just one thing. Forget about Lexus and go after BMW. BMW is a brand for different people that want something Lexus does not offer. Acura in the past did a good job of following the BMW trail up until the mid 90s when they totally lost their way. They just need to bring out luxury sports sedans and coupes and leave pure luxury cruisers to Mercedes and Lexus. We don't need more lexury cruiser, but we could use a lot more luxury sports sedans/coupes. So far only Infiniti is coming close.
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Old 02-06-06, 04:11 AM
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Originally Posted by TwiBlueG35
After reading this passage, I feel hopeless for Acura. It took them twenty years and still don't get it. AWD is not the solution for a luxury brand. Good designs and stylings can't do it by themselves. A true luxury car company needs a combination of several basic requirements in my opinion. Unique, eye-catching, but handsome styling, overall good quality of the vehicle both mechanically and electronically(but mostly mechanically), more advanced technologies than the non-luxury automakers even these technologies are not that important in real life usage, Very strong engine choices with enough horsepower for owners to brag with, excellent warranty and dealer services, and years and years of good reputation, etc. Fuel economy is not the issue for a luxury car company, don't those Acura executives know it? I still do not see the reason they keep trying to avoid the use of RWD in their sedans. FWD is good for low torque vehicles, once the car gets up to 250hp, FWD isn't good anymore. AWD is a solution, but there is no doubt the weight would increase drastically. Look at RL, which is only equipped with a 3.5L V6, already weights at 4000lbs. For the areas where snowing and even raining rarely occur, no need for AWD, but RL forces you to have it, no wonder RL stays at the bottom of the mid-level luxury sedan sales month after month. For a luxury sedan with high torque and horsepower, RWD is the best solution so far. AWD could be an option, but not a must. If Lexus is so successful, all Acura needs to do is follow it, tries to strike whatever Lexus offers model by model. Look at Nissan, their Altima before the current one was always smaller than the Camry and Accord, so its sales couldn't go up. But once Nissan pushed the current Altima out to the market, the sales keep going up, now in the top ten best selling car in the U.S. Yes Acura is overlapping with Honda, TL and TSX are both overlapping with Honda Accord sedan six and four cylinder models. MDX is like Pilot, just with differnt badge and look. RSX is too low-priced to be considered a luxury vehicle. What luxury vehicle in today's market still doesn't offer HIDs and Navi as an option at least? Acura is trying to be a Japanese Audi, wants to be special. Yeah look at Audi right now, their sales number is not that much more than Porsche in this country. A V10 NSX sounds great, but only for a very small group of rich die-hard car enthusiasts. How much can it help the brand? I say not much. Plus, a ultra-high-performance sports car(or super exotic car) has nothing to do with "luxury". Right now Mazda has more characters than Acura, so that makes me not interested in any Acura vehicle if I plan to buy a luxury vehicle. The true luxury automakers in the U.S. today are Mercedes-Benz, BMW, and Lexus. The rest all have their own problems. Even Acura follows Lexus' route, there is no guarantee for it to be as successful. But sometimes I think is it necessay to have so many luxury brands? Honda is doing great, so may be gets rid of Acura and let all Acuras stay as Honda?
Yeah, I think you pretty much summed it up right there. What's strange is Acura actually had a head start on Lexus by a couple of years. What the hell happened?? And why are they afraid of V8's. Even Infiniti with their Q45 issues know the importance of a V8 and are still hanging tough (or at least trying to) in the American Luxury market.
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Old 02-06-06, 06:39 AM
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What happened is that in the 90ies Honda was the king of hp/l, and they were bragging all over that their v6 and even i4 engines generated more power that v8 engines of their competition, which was true back then, with 290hp in the NSX, 260hp in TL-S, 240hp in S2000 and 195hp in Integra-R. Honda was enjoying success of their vtech technology, and basically declared that they will never make a v8 because their smaller engines will always be more efficient. Not only they made such ridiculous claim, they also sat on their *** for 7 years without developing any new technology to give a boost to their engines. The last gen TL-S which was introduced in 99 had 260hp, and new 2004 TL has 258. The RL with 290hp is just merely a result of increased displacement.

Since then the competition has caught up, and now not just the v8 engines make more power than Honda's v6/i4, but even the same displacement, same number of cylinder engines from their competitors are ***** slapping Hondas. So now Honda finds themselves in a funny situation - they must either eat their words and produce a v8, or get off their *** and make another impressive v6 with 350+ hp and i4 with 280+ hp.
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Old 02-06-06, 07:01 AM
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Originally Posted by Och
What happened is that in the 90ies Honda was the king of hp/l, and they were bragging all over that their v6 and even i4 engines generated more power that v8 engines of their competition, which was true back then, with 290hp in the NSX, 260hp in TL-S, 240hp in S2000 and 195hp in Integra-R. Honda was enjoying success of their vtech technology, and basically declared that they will never make a v8 because their smaller engines will always be more efficient. Not only they made such ridiculous claim, they also sat on their *** for 7 years without developing any new technology to give a boost to their engines. The last gen TL-S which was introduced in 99 had 260hp, and new 2004 TL has 258. The RL with 290hp is just merely a result of increased displacement.

Since then the competition has caught up, and now not just the v8 engines make more power than Honda's v6/i4, but even the same displacement, same number of cylinder engines from their competitors are ***** slapping Hondas. So now Honda finds themselves in a funny situation - they must either eat their words and produce a v8, or get off their *** and make another impressive v6 with 350+ hp and i4 with 280+ hp.

HP, though, is not necessarily torque, which is what you want for low-speed acceleration. Low-RPM torque has traditionally been a Honda weak point. Their engines typically ( with maybe one or two exceptions ) have to be revved to very high levels to get into the peak HP range. This has not been helped any, either, by the company's refusal up to now to develop V8s, which typically DO have a lot of low RPM torque. For instance, the RL's 290-300 HP V6, which is comparable in HP to many V8s, is NOT comparable in torque....only 260 ft.-lbs as opposed to over 300 ft.-lbs. for most V8s, even the smaller ones.
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Old 02-06-06, 08:12 AM
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Originally Posted by mmarshall
HP, though, is not necessarily torque, which is what you want for low-speed acceleration. Low-RPM torque has traditionally been a Honda weak point. Their engines typically ( with maybe one or two exceptions ) have to be revved to very high levels to get into the peak HP range. This has not been helped any, either, by the company's refusal up to now to develop V8s, which typically DO have a lot of low RPM torque. For instance, the RL's 290-300 HP V6, which is comparable in HP to many V8s, is NOT comparable in torque....only 260 ft.-lbs as opposed to over 300 ft.-lbs. for most V8s, even the smaller ones.

Thats true, however keep in mind that these Honda engines usually had a substantially higher redline than typical v8 engines, so it was easy to keep them at high revs, and coupled with hondas great transmissions they are a blast to drive. I don't know if you've ever driven an Integra GSR or S2K, but they are absolutely sick once you get them up to speed. They had no problem keeping up with older v6/v8 cars, but have no chance in todays HP war.
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