closer "look" at the sl500, 650ci, and my sc430
02-05-06, 12:01 PM
#1
closer "look" at the sl500, 650ci, and my sc430
so yesterday we had some time so off to dealerships we went. don't ask why but somehow we dcided to take a close look at the high end coupes this time. the sl500 and the 650ci, i have seen tons of pics of them, and i have also see the car in person. but never really sit down and look at everything in details, so we did it this time.
we found something pretty surprising and interesting indeed. now keep in mind we didn't ask for any sales (not like we were going to get one anyway) or drove the car. so it's just purely some observations on the exerior and interior. we all know what's good about them, so i am going to focus on what i think is NOT good
bmw 650i convertible:
the car is so nice, i love it from exterior. but my wife doesn't, saying that somehow the trunk lid looks too big. the seats are so much more supportive and i feel more closey in it than my sc430. steering is so thick and it's so good to grib on already. one plus for the idrive is indeed it takes away a lot of buttons on the dash, making it a lot cleaner (a big down on euro cars, read sl500 review below). rear seats are a tad bigger than that of the sc430, which is good!!! and i love the way they do the screen, in the middle, at the top, with a shade above it. very good design imho
now the downs
- poor leather quality. it really can't be compard with lexus. lexus leather is so smooth and soft, these are rougher and hard. seats are stiffer, good for holding you but i am not sure on long trips
- the side mirrors, they are way too "square". it just doesn't fit this car imho (do i hear m6 ones?)
- cup holders... we couldn't find any. by asking my friend i foudn that you have to take it out from behind the center console and snap it on the pessenger side. is that way too complicated for something so comon?
- trunk space is still pretty big with the top down (soft top), but it's still kinda hard to slide in things (it has space inside, but the opening is small)
- the dash is still typical bmw, which i think they could improve a bit
- the center console is a bit small, and only one level. not as good as lexus
sl500:
the exterior is fantastic, whoever thinks the exterior isn't perfect has issues man. best of the bunch, mb really nails it. interior looks very classy and elegant as well. it really spells class imho, something i think lexus is still a par below. and i love the intuitive buttons on the doors to adjust the seat positions, though my wife doesn't like it
now the downs
- the cup holders, they are stupid. the are right below the nav and radio, when it pops out and say if you put a drink there, you COMPLETELy blocks the area, so forget about pressing any buttons. not to mention if anything spills, it's right over those electronics
- the leather is better than that of the 650ci, but still not as good as lexus. i have a big question mark still
- buttons, and more buttons. too many buttons on the dash. sometimes too busy isn't a good thing
- trunk space, or i should say lack of. with the top down, just don't open up the trunk, coz' it's useless
- the trunk mechanism imho is extremely flimsy. it's pretty similar to the sc430 (both hardtop), but the sc430 has more sturdy struts, and it doesn't "shake" around as bad when you pull on it. the sl500 trunk raises higher, but it just spell a sense of danger to me
- the car is very slick, and the a pillar is very inclined, meaning it's not as easy to get in and out. for example, my wife isn't that tall and she almost hit it (ouch) when getting in and out
- it's still using cd changer?! no in dash?? it's not rocket science
sc430:
well we have this car already but we still went to lexus dealership to take a look for comparison. everyone knows the goods about this car already. and the price tag is just spectacular for the car. i know the car probably won't drive as good as the other two (which i didn't try), but for 20k less than the 650ci and a whopping 40k less than the sl500, i guess i can compromise
so here are the downs
- seat belts..... it's on the door jam area not the seats, so every time you pull, you rub against the seats. get black very easy, and over time, i guarantee some are going to rub the leather and damage it
- cup holders. already the best comparing to the 650ci and sl500, but if it could be deeper
- rear seats, they are good for insurance purposes but other than that it's more of a laughing point whenever people see my car. something close to the 650ci might make more sense actually
- more seats control like the headrest and/or the extention of seat bottom for large person. that's offered in BOTH the 650 and sl500!
- door sills imho is not at the best location. it's at the top where most people could easily scratch it when getting in and out (trust me on this one, i have seen a lot). the one on say the sl500 is much better.
- i still prefer hand brakes, if possible
- exterior is nice, but imho doesn't spell as much as the sl500 or 650ci. it could be a bit more "mean", especially in the wheels.
so here you go my views on the cars. please know, by no means i am bashing them. you guys know i love all 3 cars and wouldn't mind owning one of them any day. but rather than just stating the goods AGAIN, i think it might be more interesting talking about the bads.
oh and overall? i hate to say, but i was a bit disappointed after looking at the 650 and the sl500 up close. i might still choose my sc430 over them.
another several highlights while we were at it
- there were two m5 at the bmw dealership. of course door locked. very nice
- there was a sl65 at the mb dealership. holy god, 194k sticker. nice to see it i guess
- we saw a 03 sl500 with 17k miles for ONLY 74k. so 2 yrs, 17k miles, and you lost 26k. wow!
- the cls has pretty darn nice interior imho. and the rear seats are small, but not as bad as i thought. and with the "tricky" space behind the front seats to accomodate the knees of the rear passenger, it definitely helps
- the trunk of the e class is incredible. we looked at a e55. i hope the trunk of the new gs could be somethign close to that. the wheel well of the new gs completely killed the trunk
- the interior of the e class looks a bit more old age than competitors imho
- the cls surprisingly still has a pretty big trunk!!!!!!
- we passed by the porsche dealership, they had a silver gt in it! too bad we couldn't stop by
- my wife told me to just stick with lexus @_@
we found something pretty surprising and interesting indeed. now keep in mind we didn't ask for any sales (not like we were going to get one anyway) or drove the car. so it's just purely some observations on the exerior and interior. we all know what's good about them, so i am going to focus on what i think is NOT good
bmw 650i convertible:
the car is so nice, i love it from exterior. but my wife doesn't, saying that somehow the trunk lid looks too big. the seats are so much more supportive and i feel more closey in it than my sc430. steering is so thick and it's so good to grib on already. one plus for the idrive is indeed it takes away a lot of buttons on the dash, making it a lot cleaner (a big down on euro cars, read sl500 review below). rear seats are a tad bigger than that of the sc430, which is good!!! and i love the way they do the screen, in the middle, at the top, with a shade above it. very good design imho
now the downs
- poor leather quality. it really can't be compard with lexus. lexus leather is so smooth and soft, these are rougher and hard. seats are stiffer, good for holding you but i am not sure on long trips
- the side mirrors, they are way too "square". it just doesn't fit this car imho (do i hear m6 ones?)
- cup holders... we couldn't find any. by asking my friend i foudn that you have to take it out from behind the center console and snap it on the pessenger side. is that way too complicated for something so comon?
- trunk space is still pretty big with the top down (soft top), but it's still kinda hard to slide in things (it has space inside, but the opening is small)
- the dash is still typical bmw, which i think they could improve a bit
- the center console is a bit small, and only one level. not as good as lexus
sl500:
the exterior is fantastic, whoever thinks the exterior isn't perfect has issues man. best of the bunch, mb really nails it. interior looks very classy and elegant as well. it really spells class imho, something i think lexus is still a par below. and i love the intuitive buttons on the doors to adjust the seat positions, though my wife doesn't like it
now the downs
- the cup holders, they are stupid. the are right below the nav and radio, when it pops out and say if you put a drink there, you COMPLETELy blocks the area, so forget about pressing any buttons. not to mention if anything spills, it's right over those electronics
- the leather is better than that of the 650ci, but still not as good as lexus. i have a big question mark still
- buttons, and more buttons. too many buttons on the dash. sometimes too busy isn't a good thing
- trunk space, or i should say lack of. with the top down, just don't open up the trunk, coz' it's useless
- the trunk mechanism imho is extremely flimsy. it's pretty similar to the sc430 (both hardtop), but the sc430 has more sturdy struts, and it doesn't "shake" around as bad when you pull on it. the sl500 trunk raises higher, but it just spell a sense of danger to me
- the car is very slick, and the a pillar is very inclined, meaning it's not as easy to get in and out. for example, my wife isn't that tall and she almost hit it (ouch) when getting in and out
- it's still using cd changer?! no in dash?? it's not rocket science
sc430:
well we have this car already but we still went to lexus dealership to take a look for comparison. everyone knows the goods about this car already. and the price tag is just spectacular for the car. i know the car probably won't drive as good as the other two (which i didn't try), but for 20k less than the 650ci and a whopping 40k less than the sl500, i guess i can compromise
so here are the downs
- seat belts..... it's on the door jam area not the seats, so every time you pull, you rub against the seats. get black very easy, and over time, i guarantee some are going to rub the leather and damage it
- cup holders. already the best comparing to the 650ci and sl500, but if it could be deeper
- rear seats, they are good for insurance purposes but other than that it's more of a laughing point whenever people see my car. something close to the 650ci might make more sense actually
- more seats control like the headrest and/or the extention of seat bottom for large person. that's offered in BOTH the 650 and sl500!
- door sills imho is not at the best location. it's at the top where most people could easily scratch it when getting in and out (trust me on this one, i have seen a lot). the one on say the sl500 is much better.
- i still prefer hand brakes, if possible
- exterior is nice, but imho doesn't spell as much as the sl500 or 650ci. it could be a bit more "mean", especially in the wheels.
so here you go my views on the cars. please know, by no means i am bashing them. you guys know i love all 3 cars and wouldn't mind owning one of them any day. but rather than just stating the goods AGAIN, i think it might be more interesting talking about the bads.
oh and overall? i hate to say, but i was a bit disappointed after looking at the 650 and the sl500 up close. i might still choose my sc430 over them.
another several highlights while we were at it
- there were two m5 at the bmw dealership. of course door locked. very nice
- there was a sl65 at the mb dealership. holy god, 194k sticker. nice to see it i guess
- we saw a 03 sl500 with 17k miles for ONLY 74k. so 2 yrs, 17k miles, and you lost 26k. wow!
- the cls has pretty darn nice interior imho. and the rear seats are small, but not as bad as i thought. and with the "tricky" space behind the front seats to accomodate the knees of the rear passenger, it definitely helps
- the trunk of the e class is incredible. we looked at a e55. i hope the trunk of the new gs could be somethign close to that. the wheel well of the new gs completely killed the trunk
- the interior of the e class looks a bit more old age than competitors imho
- the cls surprisingly still has a pretty big trunk!!!!!!
- we passed by the porsche dealership, they had a silver gt in it! too bad we couldn't stop by
- my wife told me to just stick with lexus @_@
Last edited by rominl; 02-05-06 at 12:04 PM.
02-05-06, 01:02 PM
#2
Lexus Champion
Awesome reviews 
I agree with the trunklid comment on the 650ci, it does look oversized to me, but I actually think that the rear fenders are too low next to the trunk lid, and that throws it off.
I absolutely love the SL, I think it's the most beautiful car ever. (Don't ask why). However, that's insane depreciation. I've noticed that as well with a lot of the more expensive Mercedes vehicles... the C-class seems to hold its value the best out of all the Mercs...
I agree with the trunklid comment on the 650ci, it does look oversized to me, but I actually think that the rear fenders are too low next to the trunk lid, and that throws it off.
I absolutely love the SL, I think it's the most beautiful car ever. (Don't ask why). However, that's insane depreciation. I've noticed that as well with a lot of the more expensive Mercedes vehicles... the C-class seems to hold its value the best out of all the Mercs...
02-05-06, 06:01 PM
#4
Super Moderator
Nice review Henry & I agree with most of them. The SL though is still not "perfect " in exterior design to me, it's the nicest among the three overall no question, but it still has a couple of mediocre angles (I actually like the CL more from some angles), more "perfect " looking cars are to be found among the exotics IMHO.
Did you ever try putting a Super Big Gulp in a SC430 cup holder LOL ? I have & I end up having to hold it with my right hand all the way, fortunately it's an automatic
but I guess those on the SL & 650 are even worse . . .
Did you ever try putting a Super Big Gulp in a SC430 cup holder LOL ? I have & I end up having to hold it with my right hand all the way, fortunately it's an automatic
but I guess those on the SL & 650 are even worse . . .
02-05-06, 07:34 PM
#5
Lexus Fanatic
iTrader: (20)
Henry, great comments and insights!
While none of the 3 cars (or any others for that matter) are perfect, a couple of others things about the comparison.
- You mentioned the SC could look more mean, perhaps the wheels - I completely agree that it doesn't have the visual impact of the other two. It's a very soft and rounded exterior. I personally don't think the SC430 design will age well.
- The SC interior is VERY nice - especially the wood work and retractable panels on the center stack. I think the SC interior beats the other two.
- The SC is certainly a lot less money than either of the other two, but I think they're pretty different intentions really - the 6 series and SL have EXCELLENT handling, something I was underwhelmed by on the SC. The active body control on the SL has to be experienced to be believed.
- As far as depreciation, anyone buying the 6 or SL is probably wealthy enough that the depreciation just means cashing in a few more stock options so I don't think it's an issue.
- What IS an issue though, is reliability. The SL and many of their models has had some issues as you know, particulary with electronics. I wouldn't want an SL or 6 series beyond the warranty period. The SC though will probably last 500K mi.
Anyway, just some additional thoughts... thanks for sharing yours!
While none of the 3 cars (or any others for that matter) are perfect, a couple of others things about the comparison.
- You mentioned the SC could look more mean, perhaps the wheels - I completely agree that it doesn't have the visual impact of the other two. It's a very soft and rounded exterior. I personally don't think the SC430 design will age well.
- The SC interior is VERY nice - especially the wood work and retractable panels on the center stack. I think the SC interior beats the other two.
- The SC is certainly a lot less money than either of the other two, but I think they're pretty different intentions really - the 6 series and SL have EXCELLENT handling, something I was underwhelmed by on the SC. The active body control on the SL has to be experienced to be believed.
- As far as depreciation, anyone buying the 6 or SL is probably wealthy enough that the depreciation just means cashing in a few more stock options so I don't think it's an issue.
- What IS an issue though, is reliability. The SL and many of their models has had some issues as you know, particulary with electronics. I wouldn't want an SL or 6 series beyond the warranty period. The SC though will probably last 500K mi.
Anyway, just some additional thoughts... thanks for sharing yours!
02-05-06, 09:56 PM
#6
Originally Posted by genearch
I agree with much of what Henry wrote above, not all since much of it is opinion. After living with the 650i for four months, I've come to learn a bit about BMW's nuances. BMW appears not to be overly concerned with cup holders, coin holders and power outlets. it is what it is..
Compared to my SC430...
Is the leather as soft? Nope
is the wood as pretty? Nope
Is the stereo as good? I'd say it's about 95% there.
Now, the BMW side...(I can only speak for the coupe)
Can the SC match it's handling & steering feel? No way.. not happening, not even close
Can the SC match the BMW performance? No way..prepare to void your warranty to come close, but you'll have to get past the throttle lag. Lexus needs to figure out fly by wire..
Given the choice today, knowing what I know. I would likely choose the 650i. BMW's slogan is "Freude am Fahren" or.. "Joy of Driving". I'd miss the occasional drop top moment, but I'd guess that my SC430 top spends less than 5% of the time down.
Two entirely different approaches, aimed at entirely different markets. The SC is a simple "sporty cruiser" the BMW is a true sports coupe and plays in a segment of the market where Lexus does not have a presence.
Compared to my SC430...
Is the leather as soft? Nope
is the wood as pretty? Nope
Is the stereo as good? I'd say it's about 95% there.
Now, the BMW side...(I can only speak for the coupe)
Can the SC match it's handling & steering feel? No way.. not happening, not even close
Can the SC match the BMW performance? No way..prepare to void your warranty to come close, but you'll have to get past the throttle lag. Lexus needs to figure out fly by wire..
Given the choice today, knowing what I know. I would likely choose the 650i. BMW's slogan is "Freude am Fahren" or.. "Joy of Driving". I'd miss the occasional drop top moment, but I'd guess that my SC430 top spends less than 5% of the time down.
Two entirely different approaches, aimed at entirely different markets. The SC is a simple "sporty cruiser" the BMW is a true sports coupe and plays in a segment of the market where Lexus does not have a presence.
although i haven't driven the car yet, but i am already pretty sure about what it can do, given the other bmw i have driven (and admir). that's why i stressed so bad in my post that this is more like observations. it would be interesting to see how our (especially my wife's) feelings would change if we get to drive both cars. not what we wanted to do yesterday though, since no one even paid crap attention to us at the bmw dealership, and at the mb dealership i wasn't seriously looked at neither. (not surprising i guess...)
Originally Posted by TheRupp
Awesome reviews
I agree with the trunklid comment on the 650ci, it does look oversized to me, but I actually think that the rear fenders are too low next to the trunk lid, and that throws it off.
I absolutely love the SL, I think it's the most beautiful car ever. (Don't ask why). However, that's insane depreciation. I've noticed that as well with a lot of the more expensive Mercedes vehicles... the C-class seems to hold its value the best out of all the Mercs...
I agree with the trunklid comment on the 650ci, it does look oversized to me, but I actually think that the rear fenders are too low next to the trunk lid, and that throws it off.
I absolutely love the SL, I think it's the most beautiful car ever. (Don't ask why). However, that's insane depreciation. I've noticed that as well with a lot of the more expensive Mercedes vehicles... the C-class seems to hold its value the best out of all the Mercs...
and yeah, the depreciation on mb in general is crazy. just last week or so we had a talk on a cl65 selling for only 130k or so right? with a new one costing 180k, that's 50k!!!!
02-05-06, 09:59 PM
#7
Originally Posted by Neo
Thanks for the review Henry. I shadowed a black SL65 for a little bit today. Beautiful. I have to admit, I love the exterior of the MB cars. Too bad on the electronics issues and the $$$$$$. 
i have looked at that car in and out and trust me, when the car starts and rolls, you know it's something crazy. it doesn't sound quiet at all!
Originally Posted by LexArazzo
Nice review Henry & I agree with most of them. The SL though is still not "perfect " in exterior design to me, it's the nicest among the three overall no question, but it still has a couple of mediocre angles (I actually like the CL more from some angles), more "perfect " looking cars are to be found among the exotics IMHO.
Did you ever try putting a Super Big Gulp in a SC430 cup holder LOL ? I have & I end up having to hold it with my right hand all the way, fortunately it's an automatic but I guess those on the SL & 650 are even worse . . .
Did you ever try putting a Super Big Gulp in a SC430 cup holder LOL ? I have & I end up having to hold it with my right hand all the way, fortunately it's an automatic
but I guess those on the SL & 650 are even worse . . . but think about this. with the ones in sl500 and 650ci, you probably don't even need to try!!!funny you mentioned the cl. we took a look at a cl500 yesterday as well. i think it's really time for the new one to come out, coz' the current one really looks old school and boring. the interior doesn't have a sense of modern anymore. and dunno, for a coupe i probably prefer a smaller car. the door of the cl, damn that's one gigantic one!
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02-05-06, 10:02 PM
#8
Originally Posted by bitkahuna
Henry, great comments and insights!
While none of the 3 cars (or any others for that matter) are perfect, a couple of others things about the comparison.
- You mentioned the SC could look more mean, perhaps the wheels - I completely agree that it doesn't have the visual impact of the other two. It's a very soft and rounded exterior. I personally don't think the SC430 design will age well.
- The SC interior is VERY nice - especially the wood work and retractable panels on the center stack. I think the SC interior beats the other two.
- The SC is certainly a lot less money than either of the other two, but I think they're pretty different intentions really - the 6 series and SL have EXCELLENT handling, something I was underwhelmed by on the SC. The active body control on the SL has to be experienced to be believed.
- As far as depreciation, anyone buying the 6 or SL is probably wealthy enough that the depreciation just means cashing in a few more stock options so I don't think it's an issue.
- What IS an issue though, is reliability. The SL and many of their models has had some issues as you know, particulary with electronics. I wouldn't want an SL or 6 series beyond the warranty period. The SC though will probably last 500K mi.
Anyway, just some additional thoughts... thanks for sharing yours!
While none of the 3 cars (or any others for that matter) are perfect, a couple of others things about the comparison.
- You mentioned the SC could look more mean, perhaps the wheels - I completely agree that it doesn't have the visual impact of the other two. It's a very soft and rounded exterior. I personally don't think the SC430 design will age well.
- The SC interior is VERY nice - especially the wood work and retractable panels on the center stack. I think the SC interior beats the other two.
- The SC is certainly a lot less money than either of the other two, but I think they're pretty different intentions really - the 6 series and SL have EXCELLENT handling, something I was underwhelmed by on the SC. The active body control on the SL has to be experienced to be believed.
- As far as depreciation, anyone buying the 6 or SL is probably wealthy enough that the depreciation just means cashing in a few more stock options so I don't think it's an issue.
- What IS an issue though, is reliability. The SL and many of their models has had some issues as you know, particulary with electronics. I wouldn't want an SL or 6 series beyond the warranty period. The SC though will probably last 500K mi.
Anyway, just some additional thoughts... thanks for sharing yours!
- i knew i should have gone to the sl500 driving event last time
let's just say i hope one day i get to drive these two cars so i can really have full experience with them. for now i have done the exterior and interior (quite thoroughly), and you all know the driving part of my sc430 is what i have been complaining about (sportier please!), so it would be nice to see how the 650ci and sl500 get to "destroy" the sc430
02-06-06, 02:31 AM
#9
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That was cool review/observation with the Luxury coupes and convertibles. Yeah I definitely agree with the CL's need for an update. But I'm sorry I love the the big Spaceship doors. 
Yeah I definitely agree with the CL's need for an update. But I'm sorry I love the the big Spaceship doors.
02-06-06, 05:47 AM
#10
Lexus Fanatic
Nice write-up, Henry. I agree with most of your comments. The SL has always been a beautiful car, looks-wise......going back many years and decades. The SC's rear seat IMO is a joke......the car probably should have been designed as a 2-seater to start with. And the 650ci's busy dash IMO may not be a bad thing if those buttons can be used in lieu of I-Drive.
Last edited by mmarshall; 02-06-06 at 05:52 AM.
02-06-06, 07:51 AM
#11
Super Moderator
Originally Posted by rominl
funny you mentioned the cl. we took a look at a cl500 yesterday as well. i think it's really time for the new one to come out, coz' the current one really looks old school and boring. the interior doesn't have a sense of modern anymore. and dunno, for a coupe i probably prefer a smaller car. the door of the cl, damn that's one gigantic one!
. I haven't seen many SL pics that makes the car looks as good as these :
02-06-06, 07:59 AM
#13
Super Moderator
The CL is a bulky coupe in person, & yes I would pick a SL over a CL because of the bulk & the convertible hardtop, plus I like the front end of the SL better. But I actually like the design / shape of the CL more from the side & the back.
As for the need for an update on the CL, yes every model needs to be updated sooner or later, but I' m not sure the shape of the next CL would be as good as the current one based on these Spy Shots
As for the need for an update on the CL, yes every model needs to be updated sooner or later, but I' m not sure the shape of the next CL would be as good as the current one based on these Spy Shots
Last edited by Gojirra99; 02-06-06 at 08:03 AM.
02-06-06, 09:03 AM
#14
Originally Posted by mmarshall
Nice write-up, Henry. I agree with most of your comments. The SL has always been a beautiful car, looks-wise......going back many years and decades. The SC's rear seat IMO is a joke......the car probably should have been designed as a 2-seater to start with. And the 650ci's busy dash IMO may not be a bad thing if those buttons can be used in lieu of I-Drive.
it definitely helps to lower the insurance rate
Originally Posted by LexArazzo
At least for the exterior design, these still doesn't look boring to me . I haven't seen many SL pics that makes the car looks as good as these :
. I haven't seen many SL pics that makes the car looks as good as these : bulk cars in my eyes would be say the 7 series or the 5 series. most mb in my eyes are just slick
02-06-06, 09:11 AM
#15
Super Moderator
Originally Posted by rominl
you think the cl is bulky? i think it's more on the slick side bulk cars in my eyes would be say the 7 series or the 5 series. most mb in my eyes are just slick
bulk cars in my eyes would be say the 7 series or the 5 series. most mb in my eyes are just slick & in comparison to the SL. It does have a nice shape, but I can't think of anything bulkier other than the Bentley coupes.
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