Gojirra99

Not much better by my judgement, but if rear seat room is important, the G35 sedan is the sedan to buy in this class.

diablo1

So I guess the $185,000, 604 hp SL65 AMG, which does 0-60 in 4.2 seconds, and has 738 lb-ft of torque, isn't a "sports" car either. It's just a brawny luxury car with a stiff suspension. That's fine if that's your definition, but it is NOT the standard one, or the one that most people would consider accurate.

Here is what Merriam Webster dictionary says:
Main Entry: sports car
Function: noun
: a low small usually 2-passenger automobile designed for quick response, easy maneuverability, and high-speed driving

Here is what replica says:
Main Entry: sports car
Function: noun
: any car that is not FWD and has a driver-controlled transmission

dsnowgs4

The problem with all the magazines tests, is that they only care about performance and driving feel. To think they can judge the quality and overall enjoyablity of any car in a week or weekend driving thrash is absurd.

Yeah you get the point that the Lexus is not interested in driving at 8/10ths or 10/10ths. But how many people who can afford a 40k+ vehicle are willing to dangle their pretty new car on a knife edge by driving like that.

Plain and simple the other 90% of the driving done by most people is not done on a track, or simulated street track.

As such Lexus is killing all other luxury car companies on the planet including BMW in the area of profits. You dont sell a car that only 10% of buyers will appreciate. You sell a car that the other 90% of buyers will love.

These guys dont live with these cars, they just get to dump the clutches at 5k RPM a few times and hand the car back to BMW saying sorry about your toasted clutch.....

A pure sports sedan does not always sell well either. Look at the EVO VIIII it is not saving Mistubishi.

Initial B

iTrader: (2)

If they're autos, then no. Muscle sedans, maybe.

Initial B

iTrader: (2)

Exactly - it's not a sports car, it's a lux car with an s-load of power.

Roll your eyes all you want, I never said "ANY car " meeting those criteria is a sports car. Re-read my posts.

All I'm saying is that if a sedan actually has some *****, then all of a sudden it's labeled a sports sedan, when in actuality, there are true sports sedans out there that offer a vastly different driving experience. People just like the label, I guess.

b1ackhawk

Lexus needs manual trans. It seems to me that the IS300 was quite a profitable car while offering both manual and auto trans. Why only satisfy 10% or 90% of the buyers when you can satisfy 100% by offering both.

My buddy needs to make a descion on a car, he wants a couple with a manual trans and AWD. The only option he appears to have in the sub 60K range is what he has already, an Audi TT. Reliability is a big concern for him, so no american or korean cars. He will go 4dr if he has to, but never auto trans. and would really like AWD. If the both the AWD and manual trans were available on the IS350 he would get it with out a second thought.

Something else i just thought about, if your worried about satisfying the 90%, than why the #$% offer a spectacular 6spd manual in the base model but not the high end Sports model, the majority of those who are the enthusists who are interested in a manual trans would want the 350 and NOT the 250 to begin with.

diablo1

What you are saying is that the SL65 AMG is not a sports car. And that is ridiculous. Dictionary definitions of a sports car say it should have good performance and handling, and often two seats. Anyway, since you live in a world where you can make up arbitrary and illogical definitions for words, I'm not arguing about it anymore.

Hundo - steer your friend towards the S4 if he/she doesn't mind 4 doors. The rear seat is really small, if it's any consolation. You can get a loaded 6sp for under $60k. Reliability isn't the best, but it has 4 yrs free maintenance.

Hundo - steer your friend towards the S4 if he/she doesn't mind 4 doors. The rear seat is really small, if it's any consolation. You can get a loaded 6sp for under $60k. Reliability isn't the best, but it has 4 yrs free maintenance.

Since Lexus has never developed a manual transmission for an engine as powerful as the IS350's, I think there would be substantial R&D related to making the product. The IS250 was easier because it has a weaker engine. At least, that's the only reason I can think of...

mcfly

CK6Speed

iTrader: (1)

This is a tough argument to sell here on this forum. Acura in a way does just that with the RL. Sure, all the critics say they need a V8 and offereing one would please those critics. I may even by one of those critics ) Statistics show that the large majority of buyers always buy the smaller engine car. 325 out sells the 330 by far. IS250 out sells the IS350 by far. Even if Acura did put a V8 option in the RL the majority by far would choose the V6 version. It does make sense in a way to offer what the majority buying public buys and not just what the 10% enthusiast wants, but like I said, that would be a tough argument to sell here on this forum.

The other question would be what does the majority of the buying public want in a small to mid sized luxury sports sedan? I know what I want in a daily commuter. I know what I want in an exotic/sports car. I know what I want a family cruiser? Do we know what the luxury sports sedan buyer wants? I think we do, and that is why the majority of buyers in that segment buy what they do.

Initial B

iTrader: (2)

Apparently in your world, you blindly accept marketing strategies that would call anything with a big price tag and lots of power a sportscar. Tell me, is a 10000 hp tractor-pull tractor a sportscar? I'm not here to pick on the SL65 (you brought it up), but the thing weighs over 4500 lbs. Sweet car? Yes. A bruiser? Yes. Sports car? That's ridiculous.

R&D costs should not be an issue for the world's most profitable car company, This is what is so disappointing about Toyota/Lexus. Besides, Toyota has had a 6-spd tranny since 1993 in the Supra. I don't understand why they don't just use that at the very least.

Cypren

Every review I've read thus far has complained about VDIM, but this is the first one I've read to admit that they know how to turn it off, and they don't want to bother. Yes, yes, we get that it's stupid that there's no push-button off-switch for it. But do your goddamned job as car reviewers and do the 13-step sequence so you can tell us how the car handles with and without the nanny. Saying "Lexus doesn't want you to know about it" and then acting like it doesn't exist is a cheap cop-out, and a real disappointment. If you're so concerned about testing cars when they're "obeying regulations" then damn, you'd better not show us these cars going past 65 mph or cornering faster than 25, because gee, someone might take that as a license to do that on a public road! *nanny shriek*

I'm still waiting for an honest test of the IS350 against the 330 with nanny disabled, just like any performance enthusiast is actually going to drive it. But I'm not holding my breath.

diablo1

In my world I accept the definition in the dictionary, and commonly used in the automobile community, over one person on a discussion group. If you want to start a poll over whether the SL65 is a sports car, be my guest.

Companies evaluate opportunities on a cost vs. benefit basis. If they thought the cost of developing the transmission would be made up in sales, they would do it. They are a shareholder-driven big business that happens to make cars. At the end of the day, they care about making money, not making sports cars (or cars with big engines that handle well but are not sports cars ). And you can't blame them for not wanting to put a 13-year-old part into a brand-new car.

mcfly

There's not really an easy answer there, but to be honest, I don't think it's reasonable to assume that an enthusiast is going to go through the VDIM defeat every time they get in the car, on the assumption there might be some fun roads along the way.

ST430

interesting theory..."sports cars" implies that it has some connotation to possibly speed, yet in pro racing all trannies are sequential...hmmm. Sorry but as much as I used to love to double clutch heal and toe downshift into a hard corner, imho "sports" has nothing to do with hp (witness the miata craze), drivetrain layout (ITR anyone?), or transmissino (AMG / Renssports), but rather the "feel" of the vehicle. For all intents and purposes, the 3 series has been king because of it's razor sharp steering and precision in handling, something that IS has always half imitated (1st gen - feel but no hp, 2nd gen hp but no feel).

Cypren

Agreed. However, VDIM should never kick in if you're driving anywhere but a track. The system is very generous in letting you push the car -- you can go 90 around a 45 mph-rated curve and never see VDIM engage -- and from my experience, it really only comes into play when you start trying to drift. (And frankly, anyone who's drifting on random public roads on their way to and from places is a menace, and in-my-not-so-humble-opinion, really should have their license revoked. People like that are the reason the rest of us pay ludicrous insurance premiums.)

My complaint is that they're testing on a track, performing maneuvers that should be confined to a track, but they're not driving the car like any reasonable driver would drive it on a track -- with VDIM disengaged.