ST430

I've had 93' Supra TT, 97 Supra TT, 00' S2000 to name a few. It wasn't as noticeable in the S2000 in say the Supra, especially when hopped up to 500hp+, you can feel it actually kick in after losing some slip. I would surmise in a AWD application, it isn't as apparent since you have other wheels for grip, unlike RWD/FWD. Viscous types uses a fluid but its response is slower. My preference would be clutch type limited slip which can respond a lot more gradually and handle the appropriate hp.

I haven't read at all on what the new IS350 and its "semi-lsd" system is...

Sorry for the OT...

Rockville

everyone has one. It was kind of a setup really. Put the IS350 in one corner and the 330i in another and ring the bell and let's get ready to rumble........Not a lot of new discoveries unearthed in this 2 pager either. It is as predictable as Rocky 15...

When Lexus brought out the IS300 (Altezza) everybody on the IS300.net site clamoured for a manual shift. Lexus took over a year to respond and the 5 speed manual finally arrived. Where were all of those people that asked for the manual transmission? The manuals would just sit on the lot for months at a time. In the car business 60 days and you need to cut bait. I have about 3 manual IS250's in stock right now and they are really nice cars but they sell last. Lexus is in the car selling business folks not the magazine business. It wouldn't take much for Lexus to buy a few of these enthusiast magazines but that would be cheating.....The current lineup has a manual 250 RWD, a six speed auto RWD tranny, a six speed auto AWD tranny, and a beefed up six speed auto RWD 350 tranny. They already make 4 different transmissions in the IS. I don't think the IS250 manual would hold up to the torque demands of the IS350 so that would mean a 5th transmission would be necessary to be developed for the IS350 which would have limited sales. Team Lexus is going to race with the IS350 automatic against Porsches in the American Le Mans series. Putting out nearly 450 HP and lightened to 2700 lbs I'd have to call that a "Sports Sedan" by any standard.

Automotive writers don't get VDIM yet. Put some snow or just water cascading on that slalom course and watch VDIM work. They were amazed that VDIM didn't even interfere with their acceleration tests. It isn't supposed too unless your cornering and becoming unstable. The IS350's VDIM will let you hang the rear out too and I haven't felt any 30 MPH limit in cornering either. That's just BS. Try taking a sweeper at speed and then hit the brakes hard! VDIM will save you and your cheeky editor from oblivion. Try on some black ice and see what a difference VDIM makes vs. spinning and crashing. ( I've done that in an IS300 )

BTW I happen to like the Bimmer very much. I think it deserves the accolades. I wouldn't want to have the all Aluminum front clip repaired though because most body shops can't deal with it. We have a sister BMW store and the techs there are always complaining about downloading patches to the Bimmers all day long. I have traded more BMW's since the IS second gen came out then ever before. Number one reason? Cost of service and repair. Enthusiast magazines aren't sold talking about such subjects however...

Rock

diablo1

Ya, I agree about the S4. It's kind of strange looking. Also unreliable, pricy, and guzzles gas! But oh so fun to drive... If looks are the biggest concern, maybe your friend would consider a used S4 from the previous generation?

Also, unless I missed something, the 330xi, 525xi, or 530xi would fit the bill...

pumper

This is the most pointed response in this entire thread. The AutoWeek reviewers were driving the car through a slalom with the VDIM in full implementation and, guess what...? The VDIM was engaging and limiting their fun. The solution is pretty simple... Turn the F#$&*!G VDIM off!

It might be a slightly convoluted process:

but if you are going to compare it to the BMW with it's DSC and DTC turned all the way off, at least return the favor for the Lexus. Don't compare one with the electro-nanny and one without and then complain that the nanny won't let you have fun. That ain't fair! In fact, it's just plain stupid! How does BS like this get published and into the hands of the unsuspecting public? I knew there was a reason I don't subscribe to Autoweek.

pumper

Initial B

iTrader: (2)

You just don't get it. It would have been so easy for Lexus to put A BUTTON in the car that turns it off when desired, just like BMW did. I don't know anybody with a car that has a nanny-feature that doesn't at least want the option of turning it off without having to go thru some secret multi-step ritual every time you start the car...

bitkahuna

iTrader: (20)

I agree replica. Pumper, magazines shouldn't have to go through strange and secret rituals to turn off an anti-skid feature.

pumper

Listen, I agree that Lexus should make it easier to shut the VDIM off, and I hope they do so in future versions. But that's not my point. If you want to say anything meangful about the performance limits of a car, (and running it through a slalom course as fast as you can is certainly testing it's handling performance limits), you can't handicap it with a 900 lb gorilla and expect to get useful data. Then to comapre it to a car without the 900 lb. gorilla is totally unfair. The other thing they could have done to make the comparison fair would have been to leave the BMW's DCS and DTC on. However, that wouldn't have made sense either.

What they should have done is leveled the playing field by going through the ritual -- and then complain about the ritual, not the cars handicaped performance.

pumper

pumper

Here's what I learned from reading the Autoweek article:

1. It's WAY too hard to turn the Lexus electronic stability control off -- but it can be done.

2. The Lexus is faster in a straight line than the BMW.

3. The BMW with it's electronic stability control OFF handles better than the Lexus with it's electronic stability control systems ON. Gee, who'da thought? Refer to #1.

A really useful and meaningful comparison would have been with BOTH systems turned off.

pumper

rominl

iTrader: (4)

well, the way i see it, yes you can turn off the vdim system on the lexus, but the steps are ridiculous, i wouldn't say it's even close to an on/off button. keep in mind, that's not for public, it's supposed to be manufacturer testing purpose. where as on the other hand the bmw has a freaking button for you to push already. THAT, is a big difference.

it's just like acura where by default they allow you to adjust nav when the car is in motion and what not. but for lexus, you have to go through the hack sequence to turn that on. NOT just a switch button, if at all. how many people out there even know about it.

Initial B

iTrader: (2)

pumper, you're correct in being frustrated in not getting an even comparison. But you've got to look at it this way. How could Lexus not learn from the 1st gen IS - often dogged for not having ENOUGH performance WRT its competition - and build the new one with such performance-limiting, invasive electronics that are an absolute PITA to turn off? It's like they're saying "F you, you people don't know how to drive and you're too dumb for your own good." BMW's take was "Your car comes equipped with safety in mind, but if you want to let loose and have some fun once in a while, hit the switch."

I applaud Autoweek for testing as they did. It sends the message to Lexus that we don't need to be told how to drive, just give us the option. And offer a friggin manual shift in your 'sports' sedan!

mmarshall

Cypren is correct. This is one of the reasons why Lexus makes it difficult for people to disable VDIM, despite the whining and crying of a few people...and magazine road testers. If it kicks in when driving on a smooth, dry public road ( not on a race track ), then in most cases you are driving in either a dangerous or borderline dangerous manner....and making too many excuses for it. If you end up drifting on a paved dry surface, then that means you are surpassing the cornering limits of what the car, suspension, and tires were designed for....and that can have serious consequences.

Initial B

iTrader: (2)

That is scary stuff, mm. What else do you want regulated for you in life with absolute certainty - what you eat? Where you travel? Hobbies?

STIG

Well, I think I am entitle to my own opinion in this thread since most people here are arguing this and that w/o even having sat in neither of the cars.

So here it goes,
First off, I love both cars. I was seriously considering 330i when I was shopping for IS350. There are a lot of reasons that I opted for IS350. Well, may be not a lot. I am just biased. I love Toyota. Yes, I am in love with Toyota. I had 1984 Toyota Corolla and that car just never quit on me. I just had to detonate the car with dynamite to make it break. Anyhow,I have my IS350 for about 2 months now, and there was only one time I heard VDIM beeping while I was driving on the public. That was just because I wanted to test the VDIM out and the road was wet and the car was drifting. LOL. I dont know why these magazines are bitc*ing about VDIM this VDIM that and blah blah blah. This is getting annoying. I agree BMW has a better dynamic and all those good stuff. But who really care about these ranking anyway? if people are caring about these stupid ranking so much, we wont see any single FORD or GM on the road. We will only see HONDA ACCORD and BMW 3 series filled with the roads. And it takes less than 3 seconds to turn the VDIM off if you try the trick. It takes twice the amount of time that you would use for pressing the DSC off button.

And about manual transmission, my freind has 04 NSX and i just love the way he put it, " Manual isnt really as cool as people are making it sounds like." To me, manual tranny is just over rated.

The most important thing is that you actually enjoy your own car, not those stupid rankings and craps. I would still buy IS350 in a heart best even if they rank 1000439458439439549th. The smoothness, the luxuriousness, and the reliability are the most important factors when I was considering for my car. It just impossible to enjoy those so called “driving dynamic from the ultimate driving machine” when that machine is 365years a day in the shop. I know that these horror stories of BMW reliability are mostly over exaggerated, but I couldn’t take a chance since I am too poor to have another car.

Thank you. I know it’s not like people are going to read it but I am just happy that I posted this. haha

mmarshall

There is a time and a place for drifting....but not on a paved dry surface on a public road. I don't see where the VDIM ever needs to be turned off under these conditions. On a track, of course.....especially a dirt one, that may be a different story......you usually want some sliding under those conditions.

spwolf

agreed. When VDIM is engaged for 99% of people on public road, it might be the difference between life and serious injury.

Now, if you are going to track the IS, why in the world is 20 second procedure that hard to do?

There is an good reason for not having an button - people would turn it off when they want to drive fast, which means it wouldnt be available when they need it the most.

Another thing is that you CAN TURN IT OFF. Why not test it like that then? And then compare? Or compare both results? It makes no sense. Someone will build an $10 button that does the procedure and sell it for $200. It should be pretty easy actually. And then whoever wants it, will be able to install it. It will be much less work for an shop than doing the remote starter thing (all of the wires are the same as needed for remote starter so it is easy).