Corvette ZR1 officially unveiled (pg. 10) - Video Clip added
09-08-07, 08:21 PM
#138
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09-08-07, 10:39 PM
#139
Not really an excuse for GM to be using the motor other than they dont have any R&D in a modern-design motor (if someone starts talking about the Northstar, I'm going to laugh at you); so they're kind of stuck with it. I think they've done a pretty decent job with the motor so far. But ask yourself what Toyota could have done with a 427ci V8 with DOHC when their ~302ci V8 already makes 430hp+
(I wont bring up the V10 that makes equal or more power vs the LS7 at the same 5.0L because I'm sure its quite pricier than the 2UR)Nice to make that kind of power either way, but GM's method is like some mining company that develops a HUGE sledgehammer that takes 3 people to operate to dig into the mine while another company just uses dynamite. While the sledge works, its pretty inefficient when compared to the dynamite
09-09-07, 11:06 AM
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Yeah because the pushrods and valvetrain/camshaft wont have to be built out of unobtainium to handle the stresses of a larger motor rotating at speeds that high. There's a reason DOHC motors get better mileage and make more power than pushrod motors do. They do cost more though, but you can bet that GM makes a LOT of cash on each Vette sold. I mean, for Pete's Sake, its got a Malibu steering wheel.
Not really an excuse for GM to be using the motor other than they dont have any R&D in a modern-design motor (if someone starts talking about the Northstar, I'm going to laugh at you); so they're kind of stuck with it. I think they've done a pretty decent job with the motor so far. But ask yourself what Toyota could have done with a 427ci V8 with DOHC when their ~302ci V8 already makes 430hp+ (I wont bring up the V10 that makes equal or more power vs the LS7 at the same 5.0L because I'm sure its quite pricier than the 2UR)
Nice to make that kind of power either way, but GM's method is like some mining company that develops a HUGE sledgehammer that takes 3 people to operate to dig into the mine while another company just uses dynamite. While the sledge works, its pretty inefficient when compared to the dynamite
Not really an excuse for GM to be using the motor other than they dont have any R&D in a modern-design motor (if someone starts talking about the Northstar, I'm going to laugh at you); so they're kind of stuck with it. I think they've done a pretty decent job with the motor so far. But ask yourself what Toyota could have done with a 427ci V8 with DOHC when their ~302ci V8 already makes 430hp+
(I wont bring up the V10 that makes equal or more power vs the LS7 at the same 5.0L because I'm sure its quite pricier than the 2UR)Nice to make that kind of power either way, but GM's method is like some mining company that develops a HUGE sledgehammer that takes 3 people to operate to dig into the mine while another company just uses dynamite. While the sledge works, its pretty inefficient when compared to the dynamite
I don't know of any Toytoa production car that makes 430hp+, unless you're talking about the IS-F, which has not even debuted yet, and will definitely not get mileage anywhere near an LS engine. GM's reputation notwithstanding, LSx engines are known to be rock solid as far as reliability is concerned. They're also not made of 'unobtanium', the LS2/3 are VERY cheap to replace, the LS7 is expensive but that's because it's hand built in limited quantities
Too many people get caught up in things like how many overhead cams an engine has, and how much hp/L it makes. Cams and hp/L make absolutely no difference to the driving experience. The only things that matter when talking about an engine are weight, power, torque, redline, durability, fuel economy, sound, etc. If an engine can excel in those categories, it does not matter one bit how it managed to do it
09-09-07, 11:40 AM
#141
I think you need to check your facts, the LS2/LS3 gets MUCH better mileage than any other engine making anywhere near the power and torque it makes. I've personally averaged 29mpg in my C6 on a 550mile trip, never once doing the speed limit, with a few blasts up to 150mph+. I'm not sure how much the engine weighs, but the base Vette weighs about 3200lbs, and the Z06 weighs about 3150lbs with 50/50 weight distribution for both, so it's not like the LSx engine is an anchor in the front weighing these cars down.
I don't know of any Toytoa production car that makes 430hp+, unless you're talking about the IS-F, which has not even debuted yet, and will definitely not get mileage anywhere near an LS engine. GM's reputation notwithstanding, LSx engines are known to be rock solid as far as reliability is concerned. They're also not made of 'unobtanium', the LS2/3 are VERY cheap to replace, the LS7 is expensive but that's because it's hand built in limited quantities
Too many people get caught up in things like how many overhead cams an engine has, and how much hp/L it makes. Cams and hp/L make absolutely no difference to the driving experience. The only things that matter when talking about an engine are weight, power, torque, redline, durability, fuel economy, sound, etc. If an engine can excel in those categories, it does not matter one bit how it managed to do it
I don't know of any Toytoa production car that makes 430hp+, unless you're talking about the IS-F, which has not even debuted yet, and will definitely not get mileage anywhere near an LS engine. GM's reputation notwithstanding, LSx engines are known to be rock solid as far as reliability is concerned. They're also not made of 'unobtanium', the LS2/3 are VERY cheap to replace, the LS7 is expensive but that's because it's hand built in limited quantities
Too many people get caught up in things like how many overhead cams an engine has, and how much hp/L it makes. Cams and hp/L make absolutely no difference to the driving experience. The only things that matter when talking about an engine are weight, power, torque, redline, durability, fuel economy, sound, etc. If an engine can excel in those categories, it does not matter one bit how it managed to do it
*yawn*
Your C6 got that mileage because you've got such a tall gear in 6th, you're practically idling at 75mph. Why is it that the automatics dont get such hot gas mileage? I wonder? The 6-speed (GM finally put it in the car a few years ago) auto still doesnt get all that hot gas mileage, but its much better than the "barely-cracking-20" A4
I dont think I ever mentioned the LSx motor being heavy? Cams and hp/L do make a difference to the driving experience. DOHC motors offer a fatter powerband. And I think you completely misunderstood what I was trying to say. You see what I'm saying as the generic hp/L argument and I'm not arguing that at all. I'm merely saying, GM has gone with the old tech because thats all they have and cant afford to research a more modern lower-emissions, better gas mileage, higher hp motor. I'm pretty sure if the LS460s numbers are any indication (especially since the IS weighs 600lbs less) that the IS will get pretty damn good gas mileage (at least hwy in the mid 20s. coincidentally, the same as the A6 vette, yet it makes more power too, wtf?)
I also wasnt referring to the LS2/3 motors, I was referring to the LS7
Its quite a bit larger than the others, if you don't understand inertia, well there's not much I can do to help you. All the LS motors DO have a very heavy reciprocating assembly. Its the fact that the motor is all aluminum that helps in its weight... comparable aluminum DOHC motors are right about the same weight. As far as unobtanium, yeah the LS7 rods are that titantium stuff right? Thats pretty pricey just to handle 7000rpms when something like the G37 has a natural redline at 7500 and is doing it on most likely cheap cast rods.
The only things that matter when talking about an engine are weight, power, torque, redline, durability, fuel economy, sound, etc. If an engine can excel in those categories, it does not matter one bit how it managed to do it
Sound is pretty subjective, I hate the way most Vettes sound. Stock is nothing really and most the aftermarket stuff sounds like crap... like those "pacesetter" headers that everyone likes
The modular offerings from Ford sound hella better IMO.Anyway, there's nothing horridly wrong with going with old tech, but when they could be better (especially for the cash people are forking out for those things), one has to question the motives for using it. I used to be convinced that it was a great package (and I still think it is great), but there's more too it than that. GM is in deep doo-doo right now and can't afford to research a proper DOHC V6 or V8 (their current offerings are a joke)
09-09-07, 12:03 PM
#142
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I don't have any powerband graphs on hand, but the LSx engines are very tractable. They produce a ton of power down low. I understand 6th is very tall, but part of the reason they can get away with such a tall 6th gear, in a car that tops out at 186mph in 5th, is the wide power band of the engine. I have no idea what kind of mileage the A6 gets, but that doesn't concern me because I would never buy an automatic sports car. There is still no other car out there producing 400hp+ that can compete with an LS engine on a mileage basis. The IS-F engine is not out yet, there's no point speculating. GM is currently experimenting with direct injection in the LS motors, who knows what the LS engines are going to be doing by the time the IS-F deubts?
GM is (was until a few months ago) the largest car company in the world. They could have definitely afforded to make a DOHC V8 engine apart from the Northstar (the new 3.6L V6 makes something like 306hp and is from all accounts a world class engine), but why would they when the LS family do nearly everything as well or better than their competition? A high redline is nice to have, but it doesn't make much of a difference as far as overall performance. Why engineer an entirely new engine just so you can have an engine with a slightly higher redline? Where does that really get you as far as performance is concerned? The LS7 has some exotic materials, but it's a limited production engine in a car that outperforms anything twice it's price or less
I've personally thrown my LS2 into 3rd at 130mph instead of 5th (the gearbox in the pre 08 cars leaves a lot to be desired) and the engine just shrugged it off. I don't doubt that an LS shouldn't live at 7000rpms, but there's no need for it to do that in order to outperform its competition.
I agree that the engines don't sound that great, they tried to make the car sound too civilized and screwed up the engine note. Mustangs do sound much better
I agree with some of your points, the only thing I'm trying to say is that DOHC or whatever is not inherently superior in and of itself. If an engine can offer hp, torque, powerband, weight, efficiency, etc. for a better price than its competition, then I really don't care what's going on with that engine internally
GM is (was until a few months ago) the largest car company in the world. They could have definitely afforded to make a DOHC V8 engine apart from the Northstar (the new 3.6L V6 makes something like 306hp and is from all accounts a world class engine), but why would they when the LS family do nearly everything as well or better than their competition? A high redline is nice to have, but it doesn't make much of a difference as far as overall performance. Why engineer an entirely new engine just so you can have an engine with a slightly higher redline? Where does that really get you as far as performance is concerned? The LS7 has some exotic materials, but it's a limited production engine in a car that outperforms anything twice it's price or less
I've personally thrown my LS2 into 3rd at 130mph instead of 5th (the gearbox in the pre 08 cars leaves a lot to be desired) and the engine just shrugged it off. I don't doubt that an LS shouldn't live at 7000rpms, but there's no need for it to do that in order to outperform its competition.
I agree that the engines don't sound that great, they tried to make the car sound too civilized and screwed up the engine note. Mustangs do sound much better
I agree with some of your points, the only thing I'm trying to say is that DOHC or whatever is not inherently superior in and of itself. If an engine can offer hp, torque, powerband, weight, efficiency, etc. for a better price than its competition, then I really don't care what's going on with that engine internally
09-19-07, 10:58 AM
#143
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Spycam: 2009 Chevrolet Corvette ZR1 :
Spycam: 2009 Chevrolet Corvette ZR1
It is arguably one of the most anticipated vehicles GM has produced in the last 20 years -- an outrageous, fire-breathing Corvette pushing some 650 horsepower. These are the latest and greatest spy shots of Chevrolet's ultimate Vette, which we recently reported will be called ZR1.
The ZR1 will first appear in January 2008 at the Detroit auto show, with the production version set to go on sale later next year as a 2009 model. GM has been developing the car for several years, using a supercharged version of the new 6.2-liter small-block V-8 used in the 2008 Corvette, which reportedly will be called the LS9.
Annual production numbers are expected to be in the 1500-1750 range. When the all-new ZR1 hits production, look for the price tag to bump up into the $100,000 range.
The LS9 is a 6.2-liter, supercharged, small-block V-8. Output figures haven't yet been finalized, so look for it to come in somewhere in the 600-650 horsepower range. The engine will utilize an integrated intake manifold intercooler, and it will reportedly scream from 0-60 in under 3.5 seconds. The engine will be built at GM's Performance Center in Wixom, Michigan. The spy photographer reported that the exhaust note coming from the vehicle was mean -- very, very mean.
Multiple weight-saving measures are reportedly being used for the ZR1 to shed pounds including carbon fiber in the body (A and B pillars and the roof) in addition to what spies believe is a polycarbonate "window" in the hood. The rocker panels, as well as other body panels, may be crafted from carbon fiber as well.
With an expected top speed in the 200 mph range, a more aggressive lip spoiler has been added that runs almost the entire length of the car to increase downforce and keep the massive tires glued to the road. Speaking of rubber, rumors have suggested that GM would be switching from Goodyear to Michelin tires for the vehicle. According to the spies on the scene, the test car pictured is sporting Michelin Pilot Sport ZPs. The rear tires appear to be massive 335/25Z/20s. A peek behind the rubber reveals a huge set of cross-drilled rotors and an equally large set of calipers -- possibly a carbon-ceramic brake setup.
GM also considered such names as Z07 and Super Sport for the ultra-low-volume car. Price will be much higher than the 505-horsepower Z06, and Chevy will continue production of that car when the ZR1 launches.
Chevy first used the ZR1 moniker for a reported eight cars built in the 1971 model year with a 370-horsepower, 350-cubic-inch (5.7-liter) small-block V-8. The option cost $1010, while a 425-horse 454 was $1221. The '71 ZR1 came with no special bodywork or badging. Chevy revived the name in 1990 for a 32-valve Lotus-designed, Mercury Marine-built 375-horsepower quad-cam V-8. That car had a wider tail to accommodate P315/35ZR17 Goodyears on 11-inch wide wheels and was built through the '95 model year. Badges included a hyphen, as in ZR-1, which doesn't fit GM RPO nomenclature. GM has never confirmed nor denied rumors that "ZR" stands for "Zora's Racer."
The blown 6.2 also looks like the engine that will power the next Cadillac CTS-v, rather than something based off of GM's new high-feature overhead cam V-8 debuting in '09.
It is arguably one of the most anticipated vehicles GM has produced in the last 20 years -- an outrageous, fire-breathing Corvette pushing some 650 horsepower. These are the latest and greatest spy shots of Chevrolet's ultimate Vette, which we recently reported will be called ZR1.
The ZR1 will first appear in January 2008 at the Detroit auto show, with the production version set to go on sale later next year as a 2009 model. GM has been developing the car for several years, using a supercharged version of the new 6.2-liter small-block V-8 used in the 2008 Corvette, which reportedly will be called the LS9.
Annual production numbers are expected to be in the 1500-1750 range. When the all-new ZR1 hits production, look for the price tag to bump up into the $100,000 range.
The LS9 is a 6.2-liter, supercharged, small-block V-8. Output figures haven't yet been finalized, so look for it to come in somewhere in the 600-650 horsepower range. The engine will utilize an integrated intake manifold intercooler, and it will reportedly scream from 0-60 in under 3.5 seconds. The engine will be built at GM's Performance Center in Wixom, Michigan. The spy photographer reported that the exhaust note coming from the vehicle was mean -- very, very mean.
Multiple weight-saving measures are reportedly being used for the ZR1 to shed pounds including carbon fiber in the body (A and B pillars and the roof) in addition to what spies believe is a polycarbonate "window" in the hood. The rocker panels, as well as other body panels, may be crafted from carbon fiber as well.
With an expected top speed in the 200 mph range, a more aggressive lip spoiler has been added that runs almost the entire length of the car to increase downforce and keep the massive tires glued to the road. Speaking of rubber, rumors have suggested that GM would be switching from Goodyear to Michelin tires for the vehicle. According to the spies on the scene, the test car pictured is sporting Michelin Pilot Sport ZPs. The rear tires appear to be massive 335/25Z/20s. A peek behind the rubber reveals a huge set of cross-drilled rotors and an equally large set of calipers -- possibly a carbon-ceramic brake setup.
GM also considered such names as Z07 and Super Sport for the ultra-low-volume car. Price will be much higher than the 505-horsepower Z06, and Chevy will continue production of that car when the ZR1 launches.
Chevy first used the ZR1 moniker for a reported eight cars built in the 1971 model year with a 370-horsepower, 350-cubic-inch (5.7-liter) small-block V-8. The option cost $1010, while a 425-horse 454 was $1221. The '71 ZR1 came with no special bodywork or badging. Chevy revived the name in 1990 for a 32-valve Lotus-designed, Mercury Marine-built 375-horsepower quad-cam V-8. That car had a wider tail to accommodate P315/35ZR17 Goodyears on 11-inch wide wheels and was built through the '95 model year. Badges included a hyphen, as in ZR-1, which doesn't fit GM RPO nomenclature. GM has never confirmed nor denied rumors that "ZR" stands for "Zora's Racer."
The blown 6.2 also looks like the engine that will power the next Cadillac CTS-v, rather than something based off of GM's new high-feature overhead cam V-8 debuting in '09.
.
09-20-07, 08:30 AM
#146
Super Moderator
12-19-07, 02:29 PM
#147
Loves Snickerdoodles!
2009 Corvette ZR1 officially revealed!!
*more pics here
http://jalopnik.com/photogallery/200...tCorvetteZR1P/
*more pics here
http://jalopnik.com/photogallery/200...tCorvetteZR1P/
12-19-07, 02:36 PM
#148
Speaks French in Russian
Thread Starter
The other Corvettes really dont do anything for me (actually no Vette has), but this new ZR1 looks GREAT!!! 
I see that it has a glass area on the hood, like the Toyota sports car concept from last year.
I see that it has a glass area on the hood, like the Toyota sports car concept from last year.
Last edited by GFerg; 12-19-07 at 02:44 PM.
12-19-07, 02:40 PM
#149
Speaks French in Russian
Thread Starter
2009 Chevrolet Corvette ZR1 unveiled
http://www.leftlanenews.com/chevrolet-corvette-zr1.html
After years of speculation, spy photos, and rumors, General Motors has finally revealed its 2009 Chevrolet Corvette ZR1, which will be on display at the Detroit auto show in January. As expected, the ZR1 is the most powerful and most expensive Corvette model ever.
An all-new LS9 motor produces 620 horsepower at 6500 rpm and 595 pound-feet of torque at 4000 rpm. Delivering 100 horsepower per liter, the supercharged 6.2-liter V8 is mated to a close-ratio six-speed manual gearbox with a new high-capacity clutch designed for the increased power. The twin-disc 260mm design provides plenty of clamping power, while maintaining a relatively easy clutch action.
GM has not disclosed specific performance numbers, but the company admits a top speed of 200 mph is very likely. In terms of acceleration, the ZR1 will most definitely beat its Z06 counterpart, thanks to a 115-horsepower output advantage. Since the Z06 rockets to 60 mph in just 3.6 seconds, it's a safe bet the ZR1 will be much closer to the 3.0 mark. Final numbers will be announced in March 2008.
"It all boils down to the power-to-weight ratio and the ZR1’s is exceptional," said Chevy's Ed Peper. "Better than the Porsche 911 GT2, the Ferrari 599 and even the Lamborghini LP640. In fact, the ZR1 is expected to be the first production Corvette to achieve a top speed of at least 200 mph."
GM used the Z06 chassis as a starting point, but further tuned the front and rear independent suspension to work with the ZR1's ultra-wide tires for increased grip. According to GM, the car achieves 1g cornering grip.
Exotic looks, exotic materials
The use of carbon fiber is pretty extensive throughout the ZR1. The wider fenders are made of the material, as are the hood, roof panel, roof bow, front fascia splitter and rocker moldings.
The roof and front fascia splitter have a raw carbon fiber appearance with a protective clear coat. The hood is painted like the rest of the car, but the underside is exposed carbon-fiber-weave for increased novelty.
Another standout feature of the hood is a clear polycarbonate "window" that provides a view of the top of the engine’s intercooler, with embossed "LS9 Supercharged" lettering.
Brakes, tires, and wheels
The ZR1 has the largest wheels ever of any production Corvette — not just in diameter, but in width also. The rims measure 20 inches in rear diameter and 19 inches up front. Rear width is a whopping 12 inches, while the front wheels are nearly as massive at 10 inches of width.
In terms of wheel finish, a bright silver paint coat is standard and a chrome version is optional.
The matching Michelin Pilot Sport 2 tires measure P285/30ZR19 in front and P335/25ZR20 in the rear. While Michelin's PS2 tires are offered on many vehicles, these were engineered specifically for the ZR1, GM says.
The car's braking system features carbon-ceramic rotors measuring 15.5 inches up front and 15 inches at the rear. GM says the rotors are so durable they should not requiring replacement for the life of the vehicle.
Squeezing the dics are six-piston front calipers and four-piston rear calipers, painted in ZR1-exclusive blue.
Adjustable suspension
The ZR1 comes with GM's Magnetic Selective Ride Control (MSRC) suspension system. The MSRC shocks are automatically adjusted based on driving conditions and vehicle dynamics (cornering, braking, etc) for optimal handling. The system is adjusted every milisecond to provide sharp handling during spirited driving, and a smooth ride while cruising.
While the ZR1 is overall a more aggressive sports car than the Z06, it is actually less harsh over bumps, thanks to the MSRC technology. “The damping control of MSRC allowed for front and rear springs that have a slightly lower rate than the Z06, which enhances the car’s ride quality,” said Tadge Juechter, Corvette chief engineer.
Optional premium interior features
There is very little optional equipment on the ZR1. Aside from the aforementioned chrome wheels, the only other optional equipment is a premium interior package. The kit includes power-adjustable leather-trimmed sport seats, leather-wrapped interior elements (including the dashboard), a navigation system, and Bluetooth connectivity. The interior leather treatments are available in four colors.
An all-new LS9 motor produces 620 horsepower at 6500 rpm and 595 pound-feet of torque at 4000 rpm. Delivering 100 horsepower per liter, the supercharged 6.2-liter V8 is mated to a close-ratio six-speed manual gearbox with a new high-capacity clutch designed for the increased power. The twin-disc 260mm design provides plenty of clamping power, while maintaining a relatively easy clutch action.
GM has not disclosed specific performance numbers, but the company admits a top speed of 200 mph is very likely. In terms of acceleration, the ZR1 will most definitely beat its Z06 counterpart, thanks to a 115-horsepower output advantage. Since the Z06 rockets to 60 mph in just 3.6 seconds, it's a safe bet the ZR1 will be much closer to the 3.0 mark. Final numbers will be announced in March 2008.
"It all boils down to the power-to-weight ratio and the ZR1’s is exceptional," said Chevy's Ed Peper. "Better than the Porsche 911 GT2, the Ferrari 599 and even the Lamborghini LP640. In fact, the ZR1 is expected to be the first production Corvette to achieve a top speed of at least 200 mph."
GM used the Z06 chassis as a starting point, but further tuned the front and rear independent suspension to work with the ZR1's ultra-wide tires for increased grip. According to GM, the car achieves 1g cornering grip.
Exotic looks, exotic materials
The use of carbon fiber is pretty extensive throughout the ZR1. The wider fenders are made of the material, as are the hood, roof panel, roof bow, front fascia splitter and rocker moldings.
The roof and front fascia splitter have a raw carbon fiber appearance with a protective clear coat. The hood is painted like the rest of the car, but the underside is exposed carbon-fiber-weave for increased novelty.
Another standout feature of the hood is a clear polycarbonate "window" that provides a view of the top of the engine’s intercooler, with embossed "LS9 Supercharged" lettering.
Brakes, tires, and wheels
The ZR1 has the largest wheels ever of any production Corvette — not just in diameter, but in width also. The rims measure 20 inches in rear diameter and 19 inches up front. Rear width is a whopping 12 inches, while the front wheels are nearly as massive at 10 inches of width.
In terms of wheel finish, a bright silver paint coat is standard and a chrome version is optional.
The matching Michelin Pilot Sport 2 tires measure P285/30ZR19 in front and P335/25ZR20 in the rear. While Michelin's PS2 tires are offered on many vehicles, these were engineered specifically for the ZR1, GM says.
The car's braking system features carbon-ceramic rotors measuring 15.5 inches up front and 15 inches at the rear. GM says the rotors are so durable they should not requiring replacement for the life of the vehicle.
Squeezing the dics are six-piston front calipers and four-piston rear calipers, painted in ZR1-exclusive blue.
Adjustable suspension
The ZR1 comes with GM's Magnetic Selective Ride Control (MSRC) suspension system. The MSRC shocks are automatically adjusted based on driving conditions and vehicle dynamics (cornering, braking, etc) for optimal handling. The system is adjusted every milisecond to provide sharp handling during spirited driving, and a smooth ride while cruising.
While the ZR1 is overall a more aggressive sports car than the Z06, it is actually less harsh over bumps, thanks to the MSRC technology. “The damping control of MSRC allowed for front and rear springs that have a slightly lower rate than the Z06, which enhances the car’s ride quality,” said Tadge Juechter, Corvette chief engineer.
Optional premium interior features
There is very little optional equipment on the ZR1. Aside from the aforementioned chrome wheels, the only other optional equipment is a premium interior package. The kit includes power-adjustable leather-trimmed sport seats, leather-wrapped interior elements (including the dashboard), a navigation system, and Bluetooth connectivity. The interior leather treatments are available in four colors.
