Infiniti profits wane; dealers want product
02-17-06, 10:07 PM
#46
Lexus Connoisseur
Originally Posted by jrock65
I also think they should make an M coupe/convertible to go up against the 6 series, and an Infiniti version of the Pathfinder to go up against the GX470.
Remember the QX4 (Pathfinder cutout) Another flop.
I don't think Nissan is that dumb to make those same mistakes again. The main idea here is FAD CARS. They're great the first few years...but after all the hype is gone, you have exactly what this thread title says..."Infiniti profits WANE".
02-18-06, 07:03 AM
#47
Lexus Fanatic
Originally Posted by flipside909
Remember the M30 coupe? A flop.
Remember the QX4 (Pathfinder cutout) Another flop.
.
Remember the QX4 (Pathfinder cutout) Another flop.
.
As for the Infiniti M30 you mentioned, I agree with you that it was a joke. In fact, I think a convertible was offered for a brief time as well. The problem was that the car was just too much like an ordinary Nissan.
The QX4, while granted, not a huge sales success, I would not consider a joke. It was designed in the days before Ghosn's famous cost-cutting, and not only was its interior significantly more upgrade than the top-line Pathfinders ( and MUCH nicer than base-model Pathfinders ) but the QX4 got the foolproof automatic 4WD / AWD system with the center differential that Nissan stubbornly refused, even after criticism, to give the older Pathfinder until it was redesigned. The old Pathfinder was stuck with the pickup-truck and Jeep Wrangler-style part-time 4WD.
02-18-06, 10:48 AM
#48
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Originally Posted by mmarshall
I don't think jrock was talking about that kind of M, flip. I think he was referring to Infiniti making a competitor to the BMW "M" high-performance cars.
As for the Infiniti M30 you mentioned, I agree with you that it was a joke. In fact, I think a convertible was offered for a brief time as well. The problem was that the car was just too much like an ordinary Nissan.
The QX4, while granted, not a huge sales success, I would not consider a joke. It was designed in the days before Ghosn's famous cost-cutting, and not only was its interior significantly more upgrade than the top-line Pathfinders ( and MUCH nicer than base-model Pathfinders ) but the QX4 got the foolproof automatic 4WD / AWD system with the center differential that Nissan stubbornly refused, even after criticism, to give the older Pathfinder until it was redesigned. The old Pathfinder was stuck with the pickup-truck and Jeep Wrangler-style part-time 4WD.
As for the Infiniti M30 you mentioned, I agree with you that it was a joke. In fact, I think a convertible was offered for a brief time as well. The problem was that the car was just too much like an ordinary Nissan.
The QX4, while granted, not a huge sales success, I would not consider a joke. It was designed in the days before Ghosn's famous cost-cutting, and not only was its interior significantly more upgrade than the top-line Pathfinders ( and MUCH nicer than base-model Pathfinders ) but the QX4 got the foolproof automatic 4WD / AWD system with the center differential that Nissan stubbornly refused, even after criticism, to give the older Pathfinder until it was redesigned. The old Pathfinder was stuck with the pickup-truck and Jeep Wrangler-style part-time 4WD.
02-18-06, 10:52 AM
#49
Super Moderator
Thread Starter
Originally Posted by Incendiary
I think he was talking about an M35/M45 coupe, and I don't think it's a bad idea either.
02-18-06, 12:57 PM
#50
My parents leased 99 QX4, and I can honestly say that it was the biggest piece of garbage on the face of earth, probably even worse than grand cherokee.
The thing only had around 200hp, and even with 4wd it fishtailed under acceleration in rainy weather, handled horrible, and was just outright awful.
The thing only had around 200hp, and even with 4wd it fishtailed under acceleration in rainy weather, handled horrible, and was just outright awful.
02-18-06, 02:17 PM
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Originally Posted by Och
My parents leased 99 QX4, and I can honestly say that it was the biggest piece of garbage on the face of earth, probably even worse than grand cherokee.
The thing only had around 200hp, and even with 4wd it fishtailed under acceleration in rainy weather, handled horrible, and was just outright awful.
The thing only had around 200hp, and even with 4wd it fishtailed under acceleration in rainy weather, handled horrible, and was just outright awful.
02-18-06, 02:18 PM
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Originally Posted by flipside909
Hmmm the newest Lexus offerings aren't rebadged Toyotas... New GS, IS, LS and ES. You can check that out here: www.lexus.jp
Interesting, the ES is still a Camry.
02-18-06, 02:22 PM
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YOu mean your biased towards Lexus big time. Everyone knows you are Sick. Don't deny it. We have owned both makes in our family and we aren't biased.
The G20 was a nice entry level car for its TIME. It sold, but didn't sell a lot. Hmm well, if you think about it, the G20 never got discontinued. It got replaced with the G35. Just like Lexus ES models or any models for that matter get replaced with newer and better ones.
The G20 was a nice entry level car for its TIME. It sold, but didn't sell a lot. Hmm well, if you think about it, the G20 never got discontinued. It got replaced with the G35. Just like Lexus ES models or any models for that matter get replaced with newer and better ones.
Originally Posted by 1SICKLEX
I am glad you chimed in as we can actually conversate like adults and we both actually some something about these companies and the auto industry, unlike some of the fanboys in here.
The G20 was simply garbage to be badged a luxury anything. It is fine as a NIssan. To be a luxury badged car, it was horrible. 140hp I-4, decent plastics for a car but not a luxury car, nothing about it stood or stands out.
And it got discontinued, like pretty much every Infinitii at one time or another.
Then they brought it back, advertised it pretty well and
We got what, a 150hp I-4 with no luxury, no style, nothing.
And it got discontinued again.
(notice Lexus didn't or has NEVER offered a I-4 car or anything Corolla based)
The I35 was a good improvement, as the I30 was an avg attempt. They actually offered a T model (I 30) that could be had with a manual (correct me if I am wrong but I am sure this is right).
The I35 was a good looking car, the interior was nice (As was the Maxima of this era, a wonderful interior) and it was the best selling Infiniti, but compared to the ES, it wasn't a close sales race at all. It was reliable and had no glaring faults, outside of its badge.
It is very possible the ES wasn't hugely superior to the I35 in most aspects and clearly was short in acceleration but brand wise, people trust Lexus and buy Lexus. By the time the I35 was made to be a very solid car, the ES was now on a 10 year roll.
I think the I35 was gaining some speed but as you stated, with Ghosen's plan, the Maxima grew to be huge and an Inifniti badged version would be the same size as a M35/45. And this would confuse buyers. Honestly, they should have figured it out, they should have continued the I35 in some way or form.
On the other end, Lexus has proven to be the only luxury car maker than can have 2 different cars at the same price be successful, the IS and ES. No one else has that, everyone else has 1 car blending both. So looking at this, Nissan is probably doing the right thing and just offer a G35 instead of imitatiing Lexus and offering a G35/I35 in the segment.
Remember Mazda did in 1995, offer the $35,000 929 and the $35,000 Millinea S and well after 1 year, the 929 was discontinued. Its VERY tough to offer 2 cars at the same price in this price range.
The G20 was simply garbage to be badged a luxury anything. It is fine as a NIssan. To be a luxury badged car, it was horrible. 140hp I-4, decent plastics for a car but not a luxury car, nothing about it stood or stands out.
And it got discontinued, like pretty much every Infinitii at one time or another.
Then they brought it back, advertised it pretty well and
We got what, a 150hp I-4 with no luxury, no style, nothing.
And it got discontinued again.
(notice Lexus didn't or has NEVER offered a I-4 car or anything Corolla based)
The I35 was a good improvement, as the I30 was an avg attempt. They actually offered a T model (I 30) that could be had with a manual (correct me if I am wrong but I am sure this is right).
The I35 was a good looking car, the interior was nice (As was the Maxima of this era, a wonderful interior) and it was the best selling Infiniti, but compared to the ES, it wasn't a close sales race at all. It was reliable and had no glaring faults, outside of its badge.
It is very possible the ES wasn't hugely superior to the I35 in most aspects and clearly was short in acceleration but brand wise, people trust Lexus and buy Lexus. By the time the I35 was made to be a very solid car, the ES was now on a 10 year roll.
I think the I35 was gaining some speed but as you stated, with Ghosen's plan, the Maxima grew to be huge and an Inifniti badged version would be the same size as a M35/45. And this would confuse buyers. Honestly, they should have figured it out, they should have continued the I35 in some way or form.
On the other end, Lexus has proven to be the only luxury car maker than can have 2 different cars at the same price be successful, the IS and ES. No one else has that, everyone else has 1 car blending both. So looking at this, Nissan is probably doing the right thing and just offer a G35 instead of imitatiing Lexus and offering a G35/I35 in the segment.
Remember Mazda did in 1995, offer the $35,000 929 and the $35,000 Millinea S and well after 1 year, the 929 was discontinued. Its VERY tough to offer 2 cars at the same price in this price range.
02-18-06, 02:27 PM
#54
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Originally Posted by G35_TX
YOu mean your biased towards Lexus big time. Everyone knows you are Sick. Don't deny it. We have owned both makes in our family and we aren't biased.
The G20 was a nice entry level car for its TIME. It sold, but didn't sell a lot. Hmm well, if you think about it, the G20 never got discontinued. It got replaced with the G35. Just like Lexus ES models or any models for that matter get replaced with newer and better ones.
The G20 was a nice entry level car for its TIME. It sold, but didn't sell a lot. Hmm well, if you think about it, the G20 never got discontinued. It got replaced with the G35. Just like Lexus ES models or any models for that matter get replaced with newer and better ones.
I don't know what to think about bringing back an I35 as a TL/ES competitor. I'd rather they built an M35/45 coupe and a Q50...
02-18-06, 02:45 PM
#55
Lexus Connoisseur
Originally Posted by G35_TX
The G20 was a nice entry level car for its TIME. It sold, but didn't sell a lot. Hmm well, if you think about it, the G20 never got discontinued. It got replaced with the G35. Just like Lexus ES models or any models for that matter get replaced with newer and better ones.
02-18-06, 03:00 PM
#56
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Originally Posted by flipside909
The difference is, Lexus has sold the ES consecutively since 1989 without any discontinuations. You are right, they have evolved and gotten replaced with bigger and better ones. And true, the ES sales have grown exponentially. So after all that, how many Infiniti models lasted from 1989 without being discontinued up to today, 2006? That's right. NONE. Give it up already Russ, you're not going to win.
ES300 discontined for a ES330.
They had discontinuations.
Neither has Lexus because they go by #'s and its not as obvious.
02-18-06, 03:13 PM
#57
Lexus Connoisseur
The ES has had a V6 since inception and has evloved from a 2.5, to a 3.0 to 3.3 and now a 3.5.Whatever happened to the J30 and I30/35...doh...cancelled. 
02-18-06, 03:17 PM
#58
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Originally Posted by G35_TX
ES300 discontined for a ES330.
They had discontinuations.
Neither has Lexus because they go by #'s and its not as obvious.
They had discontinuations.
Neither has Lexus because they go by #'s and its not as obvious.
That is not a discontinuation. That is updating to a bigger engine. Everyone does it.
E320 is now E350
525 became 528 is now 520
Even your own I30 became the I35 before being discontiued.
Discontinued
shift_dictionary
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http://www.m-w.com/dictionary/discontinued
discontinue
One entry found for discontinue.
Main Entry: dis·con·tin·ue
Pronunciation: "dis-k&n-'tin-(")yü, -y&(-w)
Function: verb
Etymology: Middle English, from Middle French discontinuer, from Medieval Latin discontinuare, from Latin dis- + continuare to continue
transitive senses
1 : to break the continuity of : cease to operate, administer, use, produce, or take
2 : to abandon or terminate by a legal discontinuance
intransitive senses : to come to an end
synonym see STOP
3 : to be an Infiniti, as in a car or SUV that sells so poorly, you are dropped off the face of the earth : M30, G20 (twice), J30, I35, QX4, soon to be Q45
- dis·con·tin·u·a·tion
02-18-06, 03:20 PM
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Originally Posted by flipside909
. So after all that, how many Infiniti models lasted from 1989 without being discontinued up to today, 2006? That's right. NONE.
The G20 launched one year after, and it can be argued that the "G" moniker has also been sold almost every year since (except for two years in between G20 models).
Also the "re badged Nissan" arguement is truly silly. Lexus has always been sold as re badged Toyotas in the NA market until now (until Lexus emerged in Japan - albeit to weak sales). Apperently, the Japanese folks feel the same way.....
lI do credit Lexus for being the first to launch in their home market (with Acura and Infinti to soon follow - eliminating this silly argument). It's an important and necessary step for these brands to have seperate and unique identities.
It's easy to make degrading comments about the German brands as well. Take a trip to Europe or even the Carribbean, and you will find high end Benzes and Bimmers serving duty as taxi cabs. Not so prestigious anymore.......
02-18-06, 03:21 PM
#60
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Originally Posted by G35_TX
YOu mean your biased towards Lexus big time. Everyone knows you are Sick. Don't deny it. We have owned both makes in our family and we aren't biased.
The G20 was a nice entry level car for its TIME. It sold, but didn't sell a lot. Hmm well, if you think about it, the G20 never got discontinued. It got replaced with the G35. Just like Lexus ES models or any models for that matter get replaced with newer and better ones.
The G20 was a nice entry level car for its TIME. It sold, but didn't sell a lot. Hmm well, if you think about it, the G20 never got discontinued. It got replaced with the G35. Just like Lexus ES models or any models for that matter get replaced with newer and better ones.
The G20 did not get replaced by the G35, please let it go. The car was sold once, got discontined for 3 years, brought back, did just as poorly and was discontinued. Infiniti, having run out of names to screw up, had to go back and use G again, for the G35, like how the M30 and M35/45 are nowhere near related.
Thus on of their problems, confusing the SNOT outta the public.
Your not biased. lol