Gojirra99

I'm glad the GS450h does not come loaded only as it was first thought to be , like the RX400h was initially.
I would like to know how much they charge for the new active stabilizer suspension system option . . . the Neiman Marcus edition at $65K must be equipped with that too . . .

4TehNguyen

iTrader: (1)

and a lot of things come standard on the hybrid which are optional on the 430

RON430

Without talking about discounts, it seems to me that the base price on a new GS430 is around 52K so the hybrid is 3k more. And that is not just a pleasant surprise, that is an extremely good deal even if the exact 5.2 time or upper 20s mileage don't materialize. I really don't want to start the Acura flames again, although it seems like the RL defenders have finally limped off to lick their wounds, but if you look at Acura trying to sell the RL for 50K while Lexus is basing this car at 55K, maybe this helps people figure out why those of us here said the RL was just not in the running at that price. Like I said, I really don't want to get into figuring out package prices or the fact that the GS will carry a premium for a long, long time, but rather that Lexus has a pretty good handle on the market they are going after. Now this is not Lexus benevolence, if hybrids are going to fullfill their potential, they have some more technology to develop and they had to address their pricing. For 3K at this price point, Lexus has hit this one out of the ballpark IMO. I hope they spend some more time on the suspension but I have a lot better belief that the hybrid LS is going to really cause a lot of heartburn on the Continent. Regardless, I don't imagine this has been a very good day in Bavaria or Prussia.

LexFather

Very well written! LS 460 also has VDIM II, not sure how this works but should be less intrusive is my guess.

Lexus continues to go upmarket, kudos to them

nthach

What can I say, a wolf in Lexus clothing...

rominl

iTrader: (4)

seriously, at this point it's hard to say, since this is the FIRST one, who knows what problems it might have. also we need long term reliability to see if the car will really hold its value

yeah, crossing my finger on the ls

bitkahuna

iTrader: (20)

Anyone know just how much limited trunk space is eaten by the hybrid batteries?

That price is decent, but given how few of these are likely to be at dealers I expect most will be loaded and around $60K.

RON430

I believe in being a realist and this comes with a victim. The 450h and the soon to appear GS460 are going to whack the third gen GS 430 resale hard. Very hard. Oh well, everyone knew, or should have known that the V8 would get upgunned and the hybrid was not exactly a well kept secret.

encore888

Good for the 450h and 460, not so good for the 430...

Also the 350 probably will affect the 300.

But anyhow, isn't this Lexus' current strategy? More engine changes? How much resale difference are we talking here? Is the overall picture still stable since the more 'modern' engined car takes over as the 'value' leader?

RON430

No sense going back to look at who posted what nonsense about the LS hybrid but let's just say that with this GS h pricing, I do not believe that the LS pricing is going to have anywhere near the ridiculous prremiums that were speculated on. Without knowing great deals about the engineering particulars, you have to get the feeling that the hybrid package that Lexus mated to the V6 for the GS will just end up being mated to the 4.6 to produce the LS 600. Unless they go nuts with required options, which they don't seem to have done on the GS, the LS h is going to be very, very impressive in just about all respects, whether SWB or LWB.

We all know that we are heavily Lexus biased here but I have to think that this pricing with more actual performance data has to have sent a real wakeup call to bimmer and merc. When Lexus was launched, they could sit back and talk about their heritage but in all honesty, they have seen what Lexus can do and this technology at this price will hit them much harder today than the LS ended up doing, which was by no means minor. It is just that delivering this performance in the luxury market, at this price, with Lexus quality, will win them a lot of sales that bimmer and merc thought they couldn't lose. Let's just hope we don't wake up and find the pricing, performance, and mileage are a lot different than what it looks like it will be. Bravo. Competition benefits the consumer but Lexus has just dropped the big one in the luxury market and there isn't any real competition anywhere to be seen.

spwolf

batteries themselves are not that "big" actually. All depends how well was it designed from start and how much space there is at back. There might not be that much since it is RWD. They might used run flats and spare tire space for batteries.

Gojirra99

From a post in the GS450H thread in the 3GS forum :

Nas

Very well put. The introduction of hybrids will have a big affect just like the original LS.

Is this new suspension sort of like the 'anti roll' suspension thingy on the 5 and 7?

I wonder how much better the hybrid handles compared to the standard engines.

RON430

You know I have little to base this opinion on for that suspension and we have had too much groundless speculation but one thing I can totally assure you , the enemy of handling is weight. This is probably why the GS will only get the V6 hybrid while the LS will get a V8 hybrid, to save some cellulite on the GS. My guess is on the hybrid that whatever benefits might be in that suspension will be used up handling the extra weight. If this is something that makes it to the GS460, it could be just what is needed. After all, Lexus nomenclature on the numbering of the hybrids is that they are making an estimate of the performance delivered relative to a pure dyno fueled motor. If that holds, the GS460 will have comparable or slightly better than 5.2 0-60 and lose a couple of hundred pounds. Of course it is going to guzzle more gas, although I have seen some speculation on 460 mileage in the foreign mags that are quite good, but it will very likely be the performance leader and while no imported luxury brand can be modded to the extent or as economically as American hardware, the pure gasoline version will probably be much more amenable to modding. As reluctant as Lexus is to honor warranty on any modded car, I would assume that if you touch anything in the drivetrain on a hybrid, you set a match to your warranty. And you might just find yourself not even getting out of warranty service. And that is one risk that I think would be very, very foolish to risk. Besides, modding the gas motor might just make a quicker charger. The engine management electronics are probably going to be well beyond the abilities of the after market to get right. At least I would be very careful with some guy hacking in and making great claims after six months just so he can go buy an Aston Martin with his internet business while I will be left holding the bag after he disappears.

RON430

Good point about the GS3. Most of us knew the motors would get upgraded shortly and if I were interested in the GS I knew I would wait. But the magnitude of the motor change is really much bigger than I had imagined and those early buyers are going to take a beating in resale. When the 430 came out, it was a non event in this area relative to the 400 but the motor changes for the third gen are going to really punish those who couldn't wait. A pity but at least here, we all knew it was going to happen. When I drove the third gen GS430 I didn't see any reason to want to trade in my 2k1 on it but it also felt like it needed 50 or 75 more hp which is exactly what the hybrid and 460 are going to give it. Puts the initial third gen more comparable to the second gen for resale. The upgunned third gen are going to be the ones to get. Obviously Lexus priority is on the LS, probably as it should be. At least the new LS gets the uprated motors out of the gate.