TRDFantasy

Overstatement. The 325i does not "kill" a manual IS250. C & D to my knowledge has yet to test a manual IS250, so it's not exactly known what times the car is actually capable of. The BMW has a bit more power, and slightly lighter weight than the IS250, and yes it does beat it in performance, but not by any large margin. The performance gap between the two is fairly small.

You also have to consider different gear ratios, and Bimmers typically being lighter, and thus having a less isolated ride than Lexus cars. BMW's gear ratios I believe are more agressive, and their drivetrains are not tuned so much for smoothness, comfort, or quietness as Lexus vehicles are.

doug_999

Overstatement? Me? Never!

The April 2006 issue has the manual IS250 reviewed. 0-60 7.1 Sec, Quarter Mile 15.4 @ 90Mph.

You are correct, BMW's gear ratios tend to be more agressive - but I disagree with the smoothness and comfort aspects. As for quietness - that is subjective. You hear the BMW motor more than the Lexus - this is by design of course, but in terms of actual cabin noise, the BMWs tend to be just as quiet.

TRDFantasy

My memory is slightly hazy; has C & D reviewed a manual 325i? I don't see it being much faster than a few tenths of a second.

You're right, it's by design. Lexus engines are by design quiet and smooth. Typically, to get an engine to be silky smooth and quiet, performance needs to be reduced. If Lexus *really* wanted to, they could have added more emphasis on performance with the IS350, and could have given it more power. To prove my point, watch the 12 hours of Sebring March 18th, where it will be the first time the IS350 race cars will be in action in the American LeMans Series. Power will be above 450HP naturally aspirated from the 3.5L V6. For comparison, the Lexus 4.3L racing V8 makes about 500HP. So this V6, with almost 1 Litre less displacement, will be making similar power.

Och

iTrader: (3)

Well, I don't know about the 540, I smoked a few with my GS430 without any struggle. Maybe the manual 540 would smoke the 430, but the it's not a fair comparison.

The new 325 is actually a 3.0 vs IS250 with a 2.5, so it might very well kill it, but I'm sure the 250 will put up a good fight. However the old 325 with a 2.5 is truly pathetic.

doug_999

Trust me, having owned a 540 and a GS430, the 540 was much quicker - at least the sports package model I had (and yes, it was auto). In fact in every head to head comparo except for one Motor Trend one way back when the 540 was faster as well.

Your point about the 325 having a bigger engine is well taken, but doesn't the IS350 have a bigger engine than the 330?

Was a short take a couple of months ago. The performance was very quick - probably not typical. The car was not loaded with options either which might have made a dif.

Och

iTrader: (3)

I don't know, like I said, I smoked quite a few, and believe or not, I even smoked a 545. But then again, both cars are in the same ballpark, and neither can be considered all that fast and powerful for a V8. Back in the 90ies, yeah, but nowadays there are a handful of V6 sedans than can keep up with these.

That is correct, but I'm not comparing the 330 to the IS350, just simply stating that previous gen 325 had a very lackluster engine.

But then again, times are changing, and we are in the HP war time, and I don't think we are going to see anymore lackluster engines from either manufacturer in the future. Whether it's going to be Turbos, VVTI, new technology, or plain old large displacement, both are producing powerful beasts. However, I do think that Toyota engines will always be more efficient, reliable and better engineered compared to BMW's.

Baby ///M3

Please refer to the June, 1993 issue of Car and Driver.

The "old" E36 325 ran from 0-60mph in 6.5 sec. with "only" 189hp. I believe this pathetic time still beats the time IS300 is able to achieve.

The earlier BMW engines were not happiest in the low end. However it does pack a punch if you know how to drive it.

Jon

bitkahuna

iTrader: (20)

The 540i auto without sports package is very similar in performance to the GS400. The 540i auto with sports package though was quicker than a stock GS400/430 because the 540i auto sports package included a higher stall torque converter for very quick starts. My former neighbor had a 540i auto sports package and we did a few back to back tests. His car was quicker than my stock GS400 but once I got the upgraded torque converter I was a bit quicker. Then when I got the lowered Supra gearing Torsen diff it was no contest.

As for you beating a 545i - I don't think he (or she) was getting on it because I think head to head you'd lose if your GS400/430 is stock, but I might be wrong.

Like what? If you mean an IS350 can keep up with an old 540i - maybe but I expect the 540i is quite a bit heavier.

Agreed.

BMW's tend to have more problems with electrical issues than with engines, although the most recent M3 engine did have a (serious) problem when it came out.

Och

iTrader: (3)

6.5 for previous gen 325??? What kind mountain did it fall of? No freaking way, the 6.5 is more of a time for previous gen 330, the 325 was slower than automatic IS300, TL, Accord, and doesnt even come close to the manual versions. Accoding to BMW site, not even the new 325 can run that fast.

CK6Speed

iTrader: (1)

I do believe the 6.5-6.7 time was for the E46 330 and not the 325. That said though, the current 325 no matter what it says on the BMW website has been running under 7 seconds fairly easily. Most I see are around that 6.5-6.7 second range, but even Car and Driver I believe got a 6.1 out of it. How they did that I don't know, but it is a capable motor. The Lexus website says the auto IS250 does it in about 7.9, but we already have seen lower times than that. I still haven't seen a sub 7 run yet though. For the record, my 189HP 1995 E36 325 use to run mid 7.5 range which is right about where the new IS250 is right now. I believe the IS250 is a bit stronger though. We are talking about a 11 year difference though.

Och

iTrader: (3)

I guess I raced the ones without sports package, because I'm all stock


Well, maybe it had to do with the fact that the 545 was brand new with just 2k miles on it - the engine wasnt broken in, but I was able to take it.

The IS350 will beat the 540/545, as it runs mid 13's and low 5's. Then you got M35, G35, 330 manual, and TL 6 speed that are able to keep up. And I understand about the weight, but still.


Well, right, their only high output engine was majorly gltiched, and still glitched no matter how you look at it, and their mainstream engines up until recently were quite weak. Yes, in many case the lack of power was compensated by great drive train, but drive a past gen auto 525, and it's a total turd.

As far as the reliability of their new engies, it remind to be seen down the road, I personally don't trust them.

doug_999

We could start a whole thread on this one. I think that BMW engineers have different priorities than Lexus engineers and I'll leave it at that.

Och

iTrader: (3)

Well, the same could be said about ford engineers.

Baby ///M3

The 330 ran 5.7sec. to 60mph before. Just stop hating man.

As I've said before, BMW engines are very rev happy and more difficult to launch than most of other cars out there, that is why you don't see a very consistent time. Even its own E36 M3 varied from 5.3-5.8sec according to the "same" magazine.

Mind you, the E36 328 consistently ran low 6s to 60mph. The 98' E36 323 ran a 6.6sec.

Jon