SteVTEC

IS EPA class: sub-compact, 85.7 cu.ft of passenger space
3 EPA class: compact, 93 cu.ft of passenger space

The IS is the physically larger car in terms of exterior dimensions, yet is classified as a "sub-compact" by the EPA because its internal dimensions are so small. There's a huge difference between the two. It's plenty more usable. There's so much of a difference that they're not even in the same EPA class.

Ever been to Europe lately or anywhere in the rest of the world? Wagons are extremely popular. Replace every SUV you see on the road in the US with a wagon in the rest of the world and that's pretty much how the world market is. Lots of wagons and very few SUVs. Wagons are getting more and more popular in the US the more gas prices rise too.

You've really got to be kidding me, or maybe you're talking about an E46 which was definitely more cramped than the E90.

IS rear leg room: 30.6 in
3 rear leg room: 34.6 in

One of these cars I could "sit behind myself in" (at 6'3") in a pinch, and with somebody shorter driving I had enough room to be comfortable, although probably not for extended trips. The IS I took one look, laughed, and did not even bother trying to get in the back. The 3-series has so much more usable passenger space it's not even funny. There's no comparison. One would get a pass for a small family, the other one is really a 2+2 not intended to seat 4.

Again, are you kidding? AWD is extremely popular especially in the US market. I see tons of G35x, M35x, 325/330xi, Audi Quattros, and Merc 4Matics all around where I am. Marketers have people convinced that they need AWD in their cars in the US and they buy them like hot cakes.

If I want AWD in the IS, I do not get a 0-60 better than 8.3s (which is pathetic) due to it only being availble in the underpowered 250. The 325xi gets you to 60 in 7.7s (auto), 7.1s (manual), and the 330xi in 6.6s (auto) and 6.3s (manual). Sorry, 8.3 from the IS250 AWD doesn't cut it for me. If that's all Lexus has vs all the people that want AWD, then I guarantee you there's going to be a lot of escaped sales to BMW and other makes that actually offer some power with their AWD.

Again you have to be kidding me. The rated power might be about the same, but the 325i is extremely under-rated. Stock dyno (201 rwhp, 182 rwtq) on a Dynojet 248C SAE corrected is more suggestive of about 235 bhp and 215 lb-ft of torque. The same guy that got this dyno ran 14.7 @ 94 at the track stock with the manual. No IS250 is going to pull off times like that. Unlike the 325, the 250 probably really does have about 215hp/185tq and isn't just under-rated like the 325 is, due to only being a 2.5L engine.

http://www.v6performance.net/forums/...ad.php?t=65874

Anyways, MFR specs 0-60.

325i man: 6.7s
250 man: 7.9s
---
325i auto: 7.2s
250 auto: 7.9s
---
325xi auto: 7.7s
250x auto: 8.3s

The 325i manual vs the IS250 manual is a second and a half faster. That's like the difference between my old Accord V6 auto and my Maxima which is a manual. It's a night and day difference. The 325 is 0.6-0.7s faster vs other configurations. That will definitely register on the butt-dyno. I see lots of complaints about the IS250 being "under powered" from test drives I've read about on other forums, but no such complaints about the 325i.

umm, ok.

I really could care less about what Top Gear or any other magazine says about subjective points. I care about what I think, and I think the IS is ugly, and my wife does too.

I think you're being overly apologetic to Lexus. Clearly, the car has shortcomings vs the E90 beyond that of just handling or fun to drive quotient, and this is coming from a person that would greatly prefer ownership of a Lexus over a BMW anyday.

SteVTEC

Maybe the IS350 "kills" the 330 in the "Lexus camp" way of thinking, but that method of analysis in itself is extremely one-dimensional. The car may be a better car for you but not hardly for a lot of other people out there, myself included.

diablo1

Why oh why are our boards so full of BMW fans? What on earth is the point of a 4-page long post on a Lexus board telling us why the 3 series is better than our car when obviously almost all of us here chose the IS???

Furthermore why do you even care Stevetec? You drive an accord and a Maxima!

SteVTEC

Could not agree more, and in fact I dropped all of my subscriptions (MT, C&D, R&T) years ago. I got Autoweek for a year, but the online stuff was up sometimes days before I got my paper copy so I dropped that too. I like reading about hard news from the industry, and automotive monthlies are an obsolete way of delivering that.

And if anybody wonders why Honda/Acura products are so boring and uncompetitive, a good part of it is probably because they have legions of fiercely loyal buyers who will buy nothing else, consider nothing else, apologize for and downplay every flaw, and grossly exaggerate the virtues. Combine that with an automotive press that for years was afraid to say anything "too critical" of Honda out of fear of "upsetting subscribers" and you have the dull and boring products of Honda and Acura today. Ditto with GM and Ford who also have fiercely loyal buyers. This isolates companies from the competition and when that happens there's less drive to make killer products that people want to buy.

I'm an equal opportunity hater.

SteVTEC

If people have to distort the truth and make apologetic points to prove their car is "better" then that is not what I would call a very convincing argument. The IS has plenty of flaws which are easy to pick out, and I'm not even a "BMW fan". I have plenty of criticism for BMW too.

Edit: as for which is "better", it all depends on what your specific criteria is.

Perhaps because I'm in the market for a new car and like Lexus??

diablo1

That's fine, I just don't know what the point is of people that come to this site and have so many bad things to say about the IS. We are all well aware of its flaws as well as its advantages. I guess you guys just like to argue?

SteVTEC

this is the "Car Chat" forum....

doug_999

Well I do like BMWs, but I also have respect for other car brands (Lexus included). In fact, up until the 1st of this month, I owned TWO Lexuses!

I think the BMW 3-series has some great traits, as does the IS - different strokes for different folks. My posts here have been consistent with this theory and only when someone writes something that I disagree with do I respond.

I don't think your question regarding why SteVTEC cares is appropriate. I can assure you that there are plenty of people on this forum (including others in this thread!) who do not drive a Lexus much less drive at all! SteVTEC is a car enthusiast and while I don't always agree with him, he makes good points and is fun to debate with and that's what "Car Chat" is all about!

PS - We are getting off topic, therefore I think it may be time to have this thread closed.

diablo1

I apologize if it was inappropriate, but I also think it is inappropriate to go on a Lexus forum and make exhausting and repetitive arguments to Lexus owners about why their cars are bad. I agree that Steve is usually a good poster and I've had good interactions with him before too. The repetitive bashing just gets old. But I think it's a moot point anyway, since I'm sure this thread will be closed soon.

newr

Diablo1-
From reading the above, I don't think SteVTEC was bashing the Lexus or saying that it's all bad. He was just comparing the 2 cars with RAW numbers and I think you interpreted it as bad and bashing.

diablo1

I will leave it to the moderators to decide what is appropriate and what isn't. I guess I should have known what I was getting into when I decided to read this thread. 330 vs IS350 discussions are always the most contentious (and often the least useful) that you will find on this website.