LexFather

Your acting like everyone else stood still? Honda IMO made more progress than Acura. You could say that about
Toyota
Nissan
BMW
Hyundai
etc
etc
etc

Everyone has improved.

LexFather

Not only should they not be 4 cylinders (clearly in Europe this is different) but LUXURY CAR MAKERS offer more than 6 cylinders.

So you have them offering the most small engine and no large engines.

Yup, I feel ALL that luxury.

ST430

It's kind of ironical that on a Lexus enthusiasts site, we have Honduh defenders, while on THE Honduh site of all sites, TOV, they is strong sharp criticism of the new gen of Acura lineup (TL and TSX notwithstanding). There's even a compelling rumor the RSX will be dropped shortly, as well as a very straightforward look why the RL is such a bust, even with all its technology and power:

http://www.vtec.net/articles/view-ar...icle_id=514370

4TehNguyen

iTrader: (1)

given the existance of the new Civic Si, why buy a RSX-S, i think the RSX will be dropped soon, or it needs an engine upgrade to distinguish itself from the Si

I dont consider Acura to be luxury in the sense of lexus, etc, its in between, 4 cylinder turbo is fine, hell Audi A4s have 4 cylinder turbos

GSteg

iTrader: (15)

What are you talking about? Do you always act like this? I said Honda/Acura improved. Where in my statement am I wrong? I am comparing Acura now vs then. Many people have improved. I should have mentioned the Chicago Bulls improved. Let me add the Los Angeles Clippers too. Can't forget about TRD too huh?

My post was in relationship with doug_999, referring to how Acura/Honda strives to be on top of the list. Just because my facts are interferring with your opinions does not mean you have to try to find every possible way to go against me.

Yup. Honda/Acura is definitely improving. Take a look at where they are now and where they were in the late 90s.

GSteg

iTrader: (15)

I'm sure Mercedes, BMW, and audi have their game wrong, correct? After all, who cares how long they have been in the game. All that matter is that a new 20 years old company says there should be no less than 6 cyl, then that company is right in all directions.

There is nothing wrong with having I4. The only people who really cares about how many cylinders they have are the status freaks who likes to proclaim themselves above anyone who has less cylinders. Give me a 2.3L I4 that does 240hp/260ftlb over a 3.0L V6 that does less throughout the revband.

spwolf

Actually, look at your example - MB and BMW dont offer 4cly in USA. They are doing good.
Audi offers 4cly engines and they are doing extremly bad in the USA.

There is no way that 2.3l Turbo 4cly will be better than good V6 engine. Not in any car. But especially not in expensive "luxury" car.

CK6Speed

iTrader: (1)

Almost everyone I know buys the Audi A4 turbo over the 6. I'm not saying it sells more than the 6 as I have no numbers, but the 4 cyclinder turbo version as far as I know sells very well. As for MB. The 4 cylinder supercharged C230 sells like hot cakes. Everywhere you look there is a C230.

GSteg

iTrader: (15)

You're right. MB's last 4cyl was the 2005 C230K. Mercedes benz and BMW have renowned reputation as being some of the world's leading luxury brand. If 4 cylinders are considered unluxurious in america, what about the reputation in europe? Surely Mercedes aren't considered a Kia over there correct? Just because they do not offer I4 here in the states, does not mean their philosophy is now "if you have less than 6 cylinders, you are not a luxury company."


The last generation ES300 had a good engine. Are you telling me it's better than well designed 2.3L I4 turbo'ed (rdx's engine). Cars/engines improve overtime. Give me the 2.3L I4 over the ES300's engine, regardless of how many cylinders there are.

spwolf

who is talking about europe? Europe is completly different, for many reasons, biggest one being 3x more expensive fuel. Acura is selling in USA, not in Europe. We are discussing merits of 4cly in luxury vehicle, in USA.

Last generation ES? What does last generation ES has with upcoming RDX in common? What about current generation RAV4 and its 269hp GR series V6 engine? Thats the car that will cost at least 8k less than Acura RDX, and has more expensive engine. Which is ridicilous.

spwolf

I have no doubt it sells better - which is exactly Audi's problem. It costs them brand image, and it results with Audi selling 5x less cars in USA than Lexus.

With FWD and 4cly engines, Audi is having hard time convincing US customers it is premium brand. And this is Audi, that does some of the best looking exteriors and interiors in the world.

GSteg

iTrader: (15)

My points is that the number of cylinder does not make a company luxury or not. So to the Americans, Mercedes is luxury because it has no less than 4 cyl, but to everyone else, it's a luxury brand. Should the rest of the world now view Mercedes as "unluxury" for having a 4cyl? Again, this is purely the American way of thinking. If the rest of the world is able to respect a luxury brand regardless of how many cylinders they offer, why can't Americans do the same? When Mercedes and BMW had the 4cyl in the C230k and 318i, respectively, were they not a luxury brand? All of the sudden they became one because they dropped the 4cylinders. Interesting the least to say.


The ES300 had a good V6 engine correct? If so, I'd pick the upcoming rdx engine over the ES300. That's all I'm saying. Numbers of cylinders do not matter to me. The RDX cost more than the rav4, as expected. the RDX is suppose to be a higher end luxury suv, where as the rav4 is toyota's cheapest suv.

CK6Speed

iTrader: (1)

The 3.5 in the Rav4 definately is a great engine. That is one thing I really like about that car. However, have you been in the Rav4? I guess everyone has different levels of tolorences, but I thought the Rav4 was pretty cheap feeling. The Rav4 might have a better engine on paper, but I'd gladly spend 8k more for the RDX interior and feel. Keep in mind, I'm just basing this off the pictures of the RDX interior which look very nice and on par with the TSX and with the RL navigation as well. You can't get nav in the Rav4. Can you even get leather in the Rav4? The V6 one I sat in didn't have leather that is why I ask.

spwolf

yes, but its OLD ES.... Compare it with new ES engine?

And you are right. RDX is supposedly luxury suv while Rav4 is cheapest SUV. Yet the cheapest SUV has more expensive engine than luxury SUV. Thats the whole problem.

CK6Speed

iTrader: (1)

You could make the same argument about the Camry vs IS250, or the IS350 vs GS300. It appears that Toyota/Lexus doesn't care if the Toyota branded car has a better engine than their Lexus offering, and doesn't care if their lower Lexus model has a better engine than their mid level model.