Acura to debut new MDX at NYIAS(updated pg.10)
03-31-06, 01:35 PM
#61
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Originally Posted by GSteg
My points is that the number of cylinder does not make a company luxury or not. So to the Americans, Mercedes is luxury because it has no less than 4 cyl, but to everyone else, it's a luxury brand. Should the rest of the world now view Mercedes as "unluxury" for having a 4cyl? Again, this is purely the American way of thinking. If the rest of the world is able to respect a luxury brand regardless of how many cylinders they offer, why can't Americans do the same? When Mercedes and BMW had the 4cyl in the C230k and 318i, respectively, were they not a luxury brand? All of the sudden they became one because they dropped the 4cylinders. Interesting the least to say.
The ES300 had a good V6 engine correct? If so, I'd pick the upcoming rdx engine over the ES300. That's all I'm saying. Numbers of cylinders do not matter to me. The RDX cost more than the rav4, as expected. the RDX is suppose to be a higher end luxury suv, where as the rav4 is toyota's cheapest suv.
The ES300 had a good V6 engine correct? If so, I'd pick the upcoming rdx engine over the ES300. That's all I'm saying. Numbers of cylinders do not matter to me. The RDX cost more than the rav4, as expected. the RDX is suppose to be a higher end luxury suv, where as the rav4 is toyota's cheapest suv.
That is not luxury, ESPECIALLY when everyone ELSE offers more engines, no I-4 and V-8s, V-10s and V-12s!!
I don't think 1/2 of us would be on Clublexus, I would say 3/4s if Lexus didn't offer a V-8 in its cars and trucks.
And if Lexus sold cheap I-4 cars, this place would be tons different as the price for a Lexus would be tons cheaper.
You guys cannot compare ONE I-4 engine Benz offers in American when they offer TONS of V-8s and V-12s. That is a silly arguement. Especially when Acura offers 3 I-4s and no V-8s let alone V-12s.
Do you think Benz or BMW would be half as successful or PRESTIGOUS if they offered I-4s to this day? Don't ya'll UNDERSTAND, BMW got rid of their 318 I-4 cars in America! Mercedes has gotten rid of their I-4 cars. Lexus NEVER had one. Even the Frenchies at Nissan don't offer a I-4.
So there is no way you can seriously consider this luxury when its the exact OPPOSITE of the status quo in this segment.
03-31-06, 01:38 PM
#62
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Originally Posted by CK6Speed
Almost everyone I know buys the Audi A4 turbo over the 6. I'm not saying it sells more than the 6 as I have no numbers, but the 4 cyclinder turbo version as far as I know sells very well. As for MB. The 4 cylinder supercharged C230 sells like hot cakes. Everywhere you look there is a C230.
Acura has nothing close, they don't OFFER them. Luxury=CHOICE.
Imagine going to what is top hotel and all the rooms are the same? It would not be a luxury hotel to those that go to other hotels that do offer presedential suites, etc.
03-31-06, 01:42 PM
#63
I'm sure it cost more money to build a large V6 than to slap a turbo on a small 4cyl. It's was Toyota's choice to go with the V6. No one promted Toyota to build that engine. It was out of their own expense. Perhaps it's Toyota's problem rather than Acura's? Even if the engine is expensive, who's to say the next should be even more expensive? 
You're right. The new ES engine is better than the old on in output and it's probably smoother too. While this holds true, its the technology that makes it what it is. The amount of cylinders didn't change. The more we compare, the less the amount of cylinders matters. If a turboed I4 is able to make the same power as a larger V6, why not? The I4 can probably save more gas while at it. Honda is trying to extract efficiency out of small displacement engines.
If 4cylinder engines are unluxurious, then that means Mercedes became a luxury brand this year and BMW became one a few years ago. Meanwhile, the rest of the world should view them as still being unluxury for having 4 cylinders. What happens to one side will happen to the other. We can't isolate the US as the sole center of the automotive world.
You're right. The new ES engine is better than the old on in output and it's probably smoother too. While this holds true, its the technology that makes it what it is. The amount of cylinders didn't change. The more we compare, the less the amount of cylinders matters. If a turboed I4 is able to make the same power as a larger V6, why not? The I4 can probably save more gas while at it. Honda is trying to extract efficiency out of small displacement engines.
If 4cylinder engines are unluxurious, then that means Mercedes became a luxury brand this year and BMW became one a few years ago. Meanwhile, the rest of the world should view them as still being unluxury for having 4 cylinders. What happens to one side will happen to the other. We can't isolate the US as the sole center of the automotive world.
03-31-06, 01:48 PM
#64
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Originally Posted by GSteg
I'm sure it cost more money to build a large V6 than to slap a turbo on a small 4cyl. It's was Toyota's choice to go with the V6. No one promted Toyota to build that engine. It was out of their own expense. Perhaps it's Toyota's problem rather than Acura's? Even if the engine is expensive, who's to say the next should be even more expensive?
You're right. The new ES engine is better than the old on in output and it's probably smoother too. While this holds true, its the technology that makes it what it is. The amount of cylinders didn't change. The more we compare, the less the amount of cylinders matters. If a turboed I4 is able to make the same power as a larger V6, why not? The I4 can probably save more gas while at it. Honda is trying to extract efficiency out of small displacement engines.
If 4cylinder engines are unluxurious, then that means Mercedes became a luxury brand this year and BMW became one a few years ago. Meanwhile, the rest of the world should view them as still being unluxury for having 4 cylinders. What happens to one side will happen to the other. We can't isolate the US as the sole center of the automotive world.
You're right. The new ES engine is better than the old on in output and it's probably smoother too. While this holds true, its the technology that makes it what it is. The amount of cylinders didn't change. The more we compare, the less the amount of cylinders matters. If a turboed I4 is able to make the same power as a larger V6, why not? The I4 can probably save more gas while at it. Honda is trying to extract efficiency out of small displacement engines.
If 4cylinder engines are unluxurious, then that means Mercedes became a luxury brand this year and BMW became one a few years ago. Meanwhile, the rest of the world should view them as still being unluxury for having 4 cylinders. What happens to one side will happen to the other. We can't isolate the US as the sole center of the automotive world.
NO I-4 is going to be AS SMOOTH as a V-6. No V-6 will be as SMOOTH as a V-8. And so on. Drive cars with smaller engines back to back with equal horsepower and its GLARING the smaller engine is working harder and huffing and puffing compared to the larger engine.
You are missing the point. I-4 are unluxurious and if you know any 318 or I-4 C230 owner, you will know they get joked on TONS b/c people say "you bought b/c of hte badge", which does hold some truth. Again, ITS NOT LIKE THOSE ARE THE ONLY ENGINES OFFERED! Benz and BMW ALWAYS offered a larger V-6 or I-6. Acura insists on one engine choice for buyers.
If you read ANY Euro review, they don't call I-4 cars luxurious either. Its mostly for FUEL ECONOMY reasons. You get the badge, you get a I-4. Even most say you get a better buy from other brands but the PANACHE of owning a BMW or Benz badged car with a I-4 is convincing.
03-31-06, 01:50 PM
#65
I at least wasn't talking about the brand image. I was addressing the point made that an I4 can't be in a luxury car and that an I4 is sub par to any V6. Maybe the great GR engine in the Rav4 might indeed pan out to be a much better engine, but the RDX engine hasn't even been tested yet. Who knows? Maybe it will be crap, but maybe it will be a great performing engine. As long as it performs what's the big deal? I don't care what anyone says, there is no way a Rav4 will be percieved as being more pretigious than the RDX simply because it has a V6. How can you argue with 240Hp and 260 ft-lbs of torque from a variable air flow turbo? That is USDM E36 M3 numbers with tons more torque. Who cares if it is from a trubo? What matters is the power to the wheels. I thought we were car enthusiasts that love tuning and modifying cars and love great technology?
03-31-06, 01:50 PM
#66
Originally Posted by 1SICKLEX
Again, the ENGINE is the heart of the car. Its not like Acura is offering an I-4 RDX and a V-6 option. Only I-4. TSX/RSX only I-4, TL only V-6. RL only V-6.
[quote]You guys cannot compare ONE I-4 engine Benz offers in American when they offer TONS of V-8s and V-12s. That is a silly arguement. Especially when Acura offers 3 I-4s and no V-8s let alone V-12s. [quote] What's wrong with trying to be innovative? Honda already stated they do not want to be traditional. Lexus' method of adding more power is adding more cylinders. Acura's method of adding more power is improving the engine's design.
Do you think Benz or BMW would be half as successful or PRESTIGOUS if they offered I-4s to this day? Don't ya'll UNDERSTAND, BMW got rid of their 318 I-4 cars in America! Mercedes has gotten rid of their I-4 cars. Lexus NEVER had one. Even the Frenchies at Nissan don't offer a I-4.
03-31-06, 01:54 PM
#67
Originally Posted by 1SICKLEX
NO I-4 is going to be AS SMOOTH as a V-6. No V-6 will be as SMOOTH as a V-8. And so on. Drive cars with smaller engines back to back with equal horsepower and its GLARING the smaller engine is working harder and huffing and puffing compared to the larger engine.
03-31-06, 01:55 PM
#68
Originally Posted by GSteg
M
They got rid of their I4 because Americans are status huggers. The rest of the world are okay with I4s, why can't we be? Oh that's right, we have all the money in the world. We need to own a vehicle that relfects our income
They got rid of their I4 because Americans are status huggers. The rest of the world are okay with I4s, why can't we be? Oh that's right, we have all the money in the world. We need to own a vehicle that relfects our income
03-31-06, 01:56 PM
#69
Originally Posted by CK6Speed
I don't care what anyone says, there is no way a Rav4 will be percieved as being more pretigious than the RDX simply because it has a V6. How can you argue with 240Hp and 260 ft-lbs of torque from a variable air flow turbo? That is USDM E36 M3 numbers with tons more torque. Who cares if it is from a trubo? What matters is the power to the wheels. I thought we were car enthusiasts that love tuning and modifying cars and love great technology?
Amen to that. It's turboed. Nuff said
03-31-06, 01:57 PM
#70
Originally Posted by CK6Speed
The intersting thing is when it came to the C class, I would have opted for the C350, but I would have choose the C230 over the V6 C240 any day. When the engine comes FI from the factory, that opens up possibilities. I realize it was nowhere near the C32 potential, but OEM FI is still a good platform to start from compared to a weak N/A V6.
plus it's fun for modding. See EVO and STi for reference
03-31-06, 01:59 PM
#71
Originally Posted by 1SICKLEX
NO I-4 is going to be AS SMOOTH as a V-6. No V-6 will be as SMOOTH as a V-8. And so on. Drive cars with smaller engines back to back with equal horsepower and its GLARING the smaller engine is working harder and huffing and puffing compared to the larger engine.
.
.
03-31-06, 02:27 PM
#72
Originally Posted by CK6Speed
Inherently I would agree that a V6 probably is smoother than an I4, but not always. There are some crappy designed V6s and some great I4's (S2000). If we wanted ultimate smoothness i'd still pick and I6 over a V6 and so forth. Problem is you'd run out of space so eventually you'd have to go with a V.
Remember that particular vibration on the Legend's engine around 1400-1600RPM? 90 degrees V6 for the lose. Though it was smooth elsewhere. Does the NSX inherit the same vibration?
03-31-06, 02:29 PM
#73
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Originally Posted by CK6Speed
Inherently I would agree that a V6 probably is smoother than an I4, but not always. There are some crappy designed V6s and some great I4's (S2000). If we wanted ultimate smoothness i'd still pick and I6 over a V6 and so forth. Problem is you'd run out of space so eventually you'd have to go with a V.
03-31-06, 02:30 PM
#74
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Originally Posted by GSteg
Amen to that. It's turboed. Nuff said
But it should be a Honda, not an Acura.
03-31-06, 02:34 PM
#75
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[QUOTE=GSteg]More option means more money for the consumer. Honestly, do you think Honda would want to fit a V6 in their TSX? I'm sure they could, but the price would jump well near the TL's price. This would take away the TL's sales. More options=higher cost. Honda has always been simple, offering value.
[quote]You guys cannot compare ONE I-4 engine Benz offers in American when they offer TONS of V-8s and V-12s. That is a silly arguement. Especially when Acura offers 3 I-4s and no V-8s let alone V-12s.
Europe and Japan is as concerned about image IF NOT more so than us. If you read their reviews they RECOMMEND purchases or DENY them based on image.
Porsche "Coxster" ring a bell.
EVO, CAR and Top Gear are NOTORIOUS for being image pigs
[quote]You guys cannot compare ONE I-4 engine Benz offers in American when they offer TONS of V-8s and V-12s. That is a silly arguement. Especially when Acura offers 3 I-4s and no V-8s let alone V-12s.
What's wrong with trying to be innovative? Honda already stated they do not want to be traditional. Lexus' method of adding more power is adding more cylinders. Acura's method of adding more power is improving the engine's design.
They got rid of their I4 because Americans are status huggers. The rest of the world are okay with I4s, why can't we be? Oh that's right, we have all the money in the world. We need to own a vehicle that relfects our income
They got rid of their I4 because Americans are status huggers. The rest of the world are okay with I4s, why can't we be? Oh that's right, we have all the money in the world. We need to own a vehicle that relfects our income
Porsche "Coxster" ring a bell.
EVO, CAR and Top Gear are NOTORIOUS for being image pigs