GSteg

iTrader: (15)

You're right. Maybe the RDX can be a CRV Type R or something.

Just as much as an ES-series should be a Toyota. Oh wait, it is

LexFather

And the ES is made in Ohio with the CR-V and Acura TL? Ummm no.

Please, refrain from the ES should be a Camry, Acura differentiates far less than Lexus to Toyota. I don't even want to go there

JZA80MHU38

Please enlighten me. How does Acura differentiates Honda far less than Lexus to Toyota? How to measure it? And why does it matter if a Lexus is indeed a Toyota (or an Acura is indeed a Honda)?

LexFather

Consider yourself enlightened.

1. Acura RSX-Civic based
2. Acura CSX-Canada only, literally a Civic with Acura badges.
3. Acura TSX-literally a European Honda Accord with Acura badges.
4. Acura TL-Accord based
5. Acura MDX-Odyessy based
6. Acura Rl-Accord based.

Lexus
IS-based on a shortened GS platform
ES-Camry based
GS-a Lexus
LS- a Lexus no platform shared
SC-a Lexus no platform shared
GX-4 runner based
RX-Camry based
LX-Land cruiser based

Acura sold in North America only. They state 3/4ths of their cars made here only for here.
Lexus, wordwide since 1989.

On top of that, Acura makes great interiors, not far removed from a Honda, which also makes great interiors. Lexus interiors blow away Toyota interiors, which are on par with Acura interiors in many cases.


Why are you arguing? Consumers have spoken. The magazines have spoken. Even Acura has stated the TL is cross shopped with their own Honda Accord than any other car.

Just facts.

JZA80MHU38

Let's see....

Lexus
IS-based on a shortened GS platform: (Before Toyota "eliminate" the Altezza and Aristo names, these two cars were sold as Toyota in Japan. They just got "badged" and sold to foreign markets. If I remember correctly, GS shares the platform with Chaser and Mark-series RWD sedans, which are very good Toyota performance sedans)

ES-Camry based (Again, in Japan, it's a Toyota Windom)

GS-a Lexus (Not before Gen-3, which is an Aristo. The highest performance model, with a Supra twin turbo engine, is never badged a Lexus and not sold in the US)

LS- a Lexus no platform shared (it's originally called Celsior in Japan. Believe it or not, the Japanese Celsior has more luxury goodies available in the domestic market than the Lexus-badged export models)

SC-a Lexus no platform shared (I think the first gen SC shared platform with Supra or the RWD sedan. And it's called a Soarer in Japan. When they introduced the Lexus brand last year, they need a "sports car" to expand their brand, so Toyota rebadge the current gen SC, move the Soarer to become an SC in Japan. And, to me, it's not much of a sports car.)

GX-4 runner based
RX-Camry based
LX-Land cruiser based

Again, there's nothing wrong with platform sharing. If a car company builds a great platform, why not spawn off multiple products to cover a broader range of products and international markets?

Acura is not an US-only brand. At least they were sold in Hong Kong, too.

If TL is cross-shopped with Accord, good for Honda. That means no matter what customer ends up picking between the two, Honda earns their business.

Och

iTrader: (3)

The RL is not accord based at all.

IS, GS and old SC are Supra based.


You guys need to chill off - you are wasting your time arguing about RDX and RAV4, for all you should be concerned, they are both gayish kinky chick little ugly SUVs. They both suck and serve no purpose.

spwolf

point is that no turbo has an smooth power delivery of V6 engine. And those numbers are worse than Rav4s.
In heavy SUV, I4 turbo is simply not the greatest idea...

spwolf

it doesnt really matter at all. All it matters is end product. End product leads to sales and brand image.
We can see right now where different strategies have led, and what has market thought of them...

CK6Speed

iTrader: (1)

True. I'm actually an NA fan myself. All my cars are NA. However, I really respect and have been itching for a while to play with a turbo car.

As for the numbers, the Rav4 does have more HP but less torque. Isn't the torque more importent in vehicles like an SUV?

doug_999

LOL!!!!!!!!!!!!

LexFather

lol, I do agree, I would start a "ClubDaewoo" forum before I bought any of those SUVs.

UDel

BMW and Mercedes sold 4 cylinders in the U.S. even in the 90's in the 3 series, C class, and hatchback models. I don't think anybody considered them non luxury or second teir while they were doing it. The reason they dropped the 4 cylinders in the U.S. is because they did not sell that well towards the end mainly because their engines were just not that impressive and dissapointing and not because they suddenly decided they were not right for a luxury brand or Lexus does not offer any. Their 4 cylinders did not make alot of power nor were they that smooth or fuel efficient and often unreliable and most were not that impressed by them. Acura has been successful selling 4 cylinders because Honda/Acura makes the best 4 cylinders in the world and they are not dissapointments or unimpressive. If Acura 4 cylinders were unreliable, underperforming, rough, not very fuel effient like the BMW or Merc 4s then Acura would not have much success in selling the Integra, RSX, TSX either. Aside from wanting a little more power, and who doesn't no mater what sized engine, people and testers have generally been very impressed by Acura cars and powerplants. Honda is best known for their 4 cylinders so they are going to use them in many models, BMW is best known for their inline 6 so they are going to use that engine in many models, Merc is known for a big variety of large powerful engines like the supercharged v-8, v-12, twin turbo v-12 so they are going to put those engines in alot of models.

If Honda/Acura wants to showcase some new turbo technology I don't see anything wrong with it. This new technology pretty much eliminates lag and most likely will be very smooth so why not take advantage what a turbo powerplant offers. A small SUV would be a pretty good candidate for the higher torque of this powerplant and the TSX and TSX coupe would also benefit from this powerplant. Putting a Honda v-6 in the RDX, TSX is not some big technological achievement and may offset the handling and performance of those vehicles. TSX is very nimble well balanced precise car because it does not have a bunch of weight in the front from a heavy v-6 which is why they chose to put a highly tuned 4 cylinder in it. A turbo model won't add too much weight up front if done right but can heavily increase the power/torque.

Not every v-6 is better then a turbo I4 powerplant. Turbo 4 cylinders often outperform NA 6 cylinders when they are making the same power. Look at Impreza WRX and Mitsu EVO numbers and compare that to what NA 6 cylinder engines are making with the same power. I have not seen many NA v-6s rated at around 227hp do 0-60 under 6 seconds like what the WRX has done. Who knows what this new RDX powerplant will do. I would much rather have a turbo I4 RDX which will be more tunable with a very nice interior then a v-6 RAV4 which is most likely not that tunable with a cheap crappy looking and feeling interior. I was not impressed at all by it. I don't think the RDX will be loosing many customers to the RAV4. The RDX is mainly competing with the BMW X3 and looks like it beats it in every way aside from brand *****s who will just be happy saying they drive a BMW no matter how crappy it is.

Audi sells turbo 4 cylinder and they are getting very good reviews. Volkswagon turbo 4 cylinders which are pretty much the same as Audi's are getting very good reviews and earning 1st place finishes in magazine comparisons. Maybe the sudden uncomtrolled rapid acceleration problem with Audi's in the 80's stigma has not yet worn off of what people in the states think of the brand which is unfortunate because they make very nice cars. I don't think 4 cylinders or whatever powerplant is the deciding factor in what is a luxury, upmarket, 1st tier or whatever you call it but more the whole package and experience. Mercedes and BMW are the top luxury/expensive brands around the world and they still offer lower priced 4 cylinder models and they offered them in the U.S. for a long time too until fairly recently. Audi although it has not done great in the states does well in Europe and they have 4 cylinders as well as v-10s and 12 cylinders which Lexus does not even offer.

People who judge a brand or what their next car will be by if a company offers 4 cylinders, or lower priced models or if they have not been as successful in a certain segment are really limiting themselves. I and most enthusiast judge a car by its own merits, reliability rating, performance, and driving experience and don't care about the stigma of being a 4 cylinder, being based off of a less expensive model, what other often less educated people see the brand as, if they company offers more affordable cars, etc. It is ashame the Audi A8 has not caught on or sells as well in the states because I think it is much nicer then the Sclass, 7series, LS, Q, and if I had the money and was in the market for that type of car I would happily get the A8 over those others even if it is not that successful here because I would be the one enjoying the car and could care less what other people feel or think about the brand or the car.

spwolf

Integra, RSX, TSX are not luxury cars. They are all well under 30k mark. Which is completly different ball game.
We are talking about car that will start at low 30k and spread out to 40k.

VW and Audi lost 1 billion in USA last year, I am glad you think they are doing good here :-).

If you are spending money on 35k luxury car, and (among other things) one car has excellent V6 engine, while another one has excellent 4cly engine,for about the same price, which one would you get? V6 or V8? (RL?)......

I dont even know what we are arguing here. Look at brands that offer a lot of 4cly cars in the USA - they are currently doing the worst of all "luxury" manufacturers. End of story.

newr

Same here....

newr

Agree! not all Acura models are "luxury". Eventhough my Integra Type R carried the Acura name, it's by no mean a luxury car. It offered no cruise control, no leather, no sunroof, no insulation nor deadening material or comfort features but it was a HECK of a car to drive and own.