LexFather

Incorrect. Your acting like Toyota always sold the Aritso/Altezza etc and then in 1989 decided "hey lets ship around the world"

Your 100% wrong. The brand was LEXUS from day one and sold and built to LEXUS expectations from day one and ONLY in Japan sold as Toyotas.

LexFather

I would like the Acura fans in here to list ALL luxury badged SUVs with I-4s before the RD-X and currently.
If they can't find any, please name ANY SUV that has a I-4.

Thank you.

newr

You are acting like Lexus and Toyota have nothing to do with each other. Everyone knows that Lexus will forever be associated with Toyota, just like Audi with VW and Acura with Honda... THERE IS NOTHING WRONG or SHAME in that. Toyota WILL BE the # 1 auto maker in the world so the future of Lexus is very bright.

LexFather

No one said that at all. Lexus coming for Toyota CLEARLY is a postive them, look at the results. Tier 1 luxury brand. Surpassed Acura like they were not even there.

Now, please answer the question. Name I-4 luxury or ANY SUV. Thank you.

GSteg

iTrader: (15)

Unfortunately, they will forever associate with the numb and uninspiring steering/handling

newr

Maybe you are looking at Acura as a luxury brand and as a competitor to Lexus. I said this before and I'm saying it again. IMHO, I DO NOT think Acura in general as a "luxury" brand. Even if they had V8 available with the current models, I still do not consider them as "luxury" vehicles. However, I do think Acura vehicles offer the best bang for the bucks.

GSteg

iTrader: (15)

Chevy HHR
Ford Escape
Honda CRV
Honda Element
Mazda CX-7
Saturn Vue
Toyota Highlander
Toyota Rav4


you asked for it

LexFather

Thank you. Now add
Acura RD-X
Ford Escape
Honda CRV
Honda Element
Mazda CX-7
Saturn Vue
Toyota Highlander
Toyota Rav4

Now notice, no other luxury brands have done this. Game, set, match

GSteg

iTrader: (15)

And Acura will be the one to start the trend...just like how they started the japanese luxury division in North America...

JZA80MHU38

I may be "100% wrong" again like 1SICKLEX said, but he sure sounds like those executives from the Big 3 and the European back in late 80s, saying no Japanese manufacturers can make a luxury vehicle.

Who knows. If Acura knocked on the US market's door back in the 80s and start the war between Japanese import luxury cars and the other makes, why can't they build the first Inline-4 luxury SUV and set a trend?

I am stating facts, you are just stating your opinion if not speculation (like saying "The brand was LEXUS from day one and sold and built to LEXUS expectations from day one and ONLY in Japan sold as Toyotas."). So don't call me wrong. And, FYI, there are Soarer, Hilux Surf/4Runner, and Land Cruiser way before the Lexus brand is established.

One more piece of info. The Lexus IS220 is a four cylinder, but it won't be sold in the US market because 1, it's a diesel and 2, there are too many stubborn "luxury" car customers in the US. Hey, the best performing model for the first gen. IS/Altezza is a Yamaha-built 4-cylinder, not the IS300 for the US.

LexFather

I just wanted to say I have the 100th post in here

No sense arguing, Acura isn't really a luxury brand. Apples to Oranges. Have a good weekend everyone.

CK6Speed

iTrader: (1)

Acura is a luxury brand. It may be teir 2 to some, it may not offer the types of luxury cars that some think they should, but it is still in the luxury brand segment and it opened its doors from day one that way. They may not be at the top, or too some nowhere near the top, but it doesn't matter. They are in the game and they are a luxury car maker that sells non luxury cars as well. Thank God for that or cars like the Integra Type R, and NSX may never have been released in the USA. Heck, Lexus IMHO as well as all the other players also offer non luxury cars. I don't consider a truck or SUV a luxury car. They may have lots of luxury items on them, but they are trucks plain and simple. If you can have a solid axle rear end on truck in a luxury brand you can have an I4 or I4 turbo engine as well.

Whether Acura has the goods to compete or not should not be a debate in this topic. The debate should have been what will the new MDX be like as that is the title of the topic. I too am guilty of going off on the RDX as for some odd reason somone early on brought it up, so, the second debate should be if the new I4 Variable Airflow Turbo system that Acura is using on the small SUV RDX is adequate to power this car at competitive levels? After all, we are not the general yuppie buying public that buys cars for the image right? Most of us participating in this discussion are supposed to be car enthusiasts. We think differently than others. We like technology, innovation, and the bottom line. If the car performs, the car performs. We are the type of people that analyze torque curves, wheel HP, power bands, rev ranges and such.

Measure the car as it is and not by what badge is on it. If the RDX was reeased as a Honda would it be a great small SUV? Does the little plastic (A) on the hood now make it anything less? The intetior of the RDX is definately on par with other so called luxury SUV's. It's nav system will be among the best in the business. Style wise I don't really care as I'm not really an SUV person even if I own one. Too me they are are just fancy trucks..

For me, the bottom line is if the engine performs competitively and what the potential is on that engine. If the IS250 came out with a 2.5L Turbo I4 making 240 HP and 260 ft-lbs of torque I'd be all over it. It wouldn't matter too me if the 3.5V6 IS350 out performs it in stock trim as a simply I recognize the potential. Part of the appeal of turbo engines is the possibilities. The Supra TT was good, but nothing dramatically special in stock form. It is the tuning possibilities that give it is legendary status.

For the record. Let's get one fact straight. Acura is using an I4 Turbo in the RDX by choice. We all know that Acura was planning on using the J30, or J35 VTEC V6 in the RDX as a back up if they could not work out the turbo details. I for one am glad they are using a turbo because that opens up a whole new engine line that hpefully finds its way into more Honda Acura cars. For Acura I'd particularly like to see that engine in the TSX. An I4 turbo TSX with SH-AWD IMHO would have cult tuner crowed following. Anyway, Honda/Acura can build whatever they want. They choose to follow a path few if any are on. That is great. If I want a luxury boat to spoil me on the highway I'd choose the LS430 or LS460 anyday. If I want a luxury sports sedan I'd choose the BMW. If I wanted a luxury car the blends the two and sort of is the jack of all trades I'd look to Acura.

CK6Speed

iTrader: (1)

No you don't. As far as I see you have #101

UDel

I never said the RSX, Integra, TSX are pure luxury cars. Alot of people don't consider the 3 series, IS300, A4, C class hatch, Infiniti G35, etc pure luxury cars either and more entry level smaller sporty or sports sedans from luxury/upmarket brands. I don't think there is a certain price point standard where something is considered luxury/upmarket or not. The TSX compares well with the lower priced smaller engined models of those cars like the A4, IS, 3 series. If this turbo awd system makes it into the next TSX it will compare better to the more powerful models.

I never said Audi was doing good here. I even said in the post they were not doing that well in the states and I thought it was ashame they are not doing better. I am kind of surprised so many people choose the S class, 7 series, LS430 over the A8 but it is most likely due to repeat buyers and the popularity of those cars before the newly designed A8. I don't think it has anything to due with Audi offering a 4 cylinder choice in a few cars but more due to past realiability problems like the sudden acceleration fiasco and them not having very good cars that compared with middle/upper end Mercedes and BMW until around the mid 90's. Audi does pretty well in Europe though.

I don't really care what the powerplant is in a vehicle but more how it is enginered and how it drives no matter what brand I buy. This new turbo powerplant may perform very well and it will be more tunable then a NA engine if I want more power. As for a RAV4 or the X3 and a RDX I would certainly choose the RDX based on the SH-awd and the much nicer interior then those other vehicles. I don't care whether I have a advanced turbo I4 under the hood or a v-6 as long as it is reliable, drives well, has decent power, and is somewhat fuel effecient. It is not like the RDX is some large heavy SUV or a 40K+ vehicle where it would be better to offer a larger engine. It is a small sporty SUV that will probrably not cost anywhere near 40K and a advanced turbo I4 is a good powerplant for that type of vehicle.

I am not trying to argue but I don't get why some people are so bothered that Honda/Acura is using a turbo powerplant in a vehicle and not just another NA engine or how some people think a brand is not a real luxury brand if they offer 4 cylinder cars or entry level vehicles which Mercedes Benz or BMW have offered for a long time. I would have chosen a 2nd gen GS300 if I was satisfied with the power but it just seemed sluggish and underpowered and it got pretty bad fuel economy. If it was at least as quick as my moms 99TL then it would have been fine but it wasn't. I would rather get the Japan model with the Supra turbo powerplant over the v-8. I never equated v-8 only equals true luxury in my car choice and if the 6 cylinder had felt satisfying enough I would have no problem getting that car even if some people think that type of car needs a v-8. It is not just the powerplant but the whole package and a turbo I4 can make a very good powerplant for the RDX and later for the TSX or a small coupe. If Acura makes a turbo v-6 awd for the TL or RL I don't think many people will be complaining and it would be a highly desireable car.

UDel

That may be your opinion but it is certainly not a fact. What makes Acura not a luxury/upmarket brand and Lexus a luxury upmarket brand? What is the vast difference between the 2 brands aside from different models. You may say Lexus has a v-8 and a large rwd sedan but that is not the only universal requirement. If Acura offers its new v-10 or v-8 in a large rwd sedan then do they suddenly become a luxury brand or will there be some other excuse why they can't be a luxury brand or is vastly different from Lexus. Acura does make and offer a car that costs more then any Lexus model and outperforms any Lexus model.

Some people say Lexus is not a true luxury brand either but more of just nicer more expensive Toyota models. Some say a luxury brand needs to have cars that cost over 100K, 12 cylinder options, have high end high performance versions like M and AMG, sell at a premium compared to similiar models from different brands, not share with less expensive brands, offer extravagant materials and features, etc. Lexus does not offer a larger engine then a v-8 right now, no models that cost over 100K or even 80K I believe, vehicles are lower priced then comparable BMW, Mercedes cars and Lexus sells more on reliability, quality, dealership experience, and lower prices. For Mercedes and BMW to be so successful yet have some of the worst reliability ratings and records does say something about the image of the brand and their desireable products. If Lexus took a nose dive in quality and reliability to or near Merc levels and priced their cars at or above Euro brands they would not be nearly as successful as they are and would probrably completely ruin the brand.

I see Lexus just like I see Acura and Infiniti. Upmarket brands from volume Japanese manufactures that offer more upmarket, sporty, or luxury models. Just because Lexus has been more successful at selling large v-8 rwd sedans then the other brands does not make them vastly different or in a totally different category. All 3 companies share platforms and parts on their cars with their lesser brands and all 3 have used their own platfoms and powerplants in some of their cars. A large portion of their sales are from their lower priced models that share platforms with the Honda,Toyota,Nissan. Their vehicles are generally more reliable and cost less then their European competition. Their is nothing wrong with that and if they can offer a nicer car then its more expensive competition because of sharing then I am all for it. Acura as well as Lexus is very successful because they make products that people want and enjoy owning and have good records, Infiniti has not been so successful because of several mistakes but they are getting much better. Infiniti has always had rwd v-8s yet did poorly in the U.S. until recently and that is mainly due to a entry level v-6 sports sedan. I don't think when Acura comes out with a v-10 for the NSX and it possibly costing over 100K it is going to put them on a whole new level even if that v-10 goes to a more volume model like a rwd sedan or coupe or if they make a v-8. Acura will still be an upmarket brand from a volume Japanese maker just like Lexus and Infiniti no matter what engines they offer, how much they cost, what they share, or how successful they are with certain vehicles.