Autobild V8 Luxury Car Comparison: A6 4.2 vs 540i vs E500 vs GS430
04-09-06, 02:42 PM
#16
Originally Posted by spwolf
handle circles? It probably wont be able to catch it fast enough to handle circles around it... hehe.
Originally Posted by 4TehNguyen
a lexus losing in a german published magazine who da thunk it
04-09-06, 03:05 PM
#17
Originally Posted by bitkahuna
No doubt there's German bias/favoritism in the article, but nevertheless, don't dismiss the review. In the land of autobahns, the Nurburgring road and driving tests that aren't a joke, German drivers LOVE cars that handle well, have great feel, and go fast. They like luxury also, but it's pretty much second to the performance unless you've got a chauffeur.
The GS *is* slower. It's steering *is* numb comparitively. And it *is* smaller inside and in the trunk. These are real negatives. Lexus turned the dial some from 'float boat' to 'performer' from the 2GS to the 3GS, but it isn't any serious threat to the German sports sedans. Don't forget, it is easily outsold by them EVEN IN THE U.S. It's really a niche vehicle, a very, very refined one, almost for someone who is afraid to go fast but likes the idea of having a powerful cushy car.
It will be interesting to see if Lexus does anything to the handling/steering on the GS460 (I doubt it). The GS450 has the rear active stabilizer but that's really just to offset the weight of the batteries.
If Lexus ever wants to outsell these German sports sedans (and I'm not sure it really does), it's doing great selling loads of RX's and high margin LS's), it's going to have to step up its game.
The GS *is* slower. It's steering *is* numb comparitively. And it *is* smaller inside and in the trunk. These are real negatives. Lexus turned the dial some from 'float boat' to 'performer' from the 2GS to the 3GS, but it isn't any serious threat to the German sports sedans. Don't forget, it is easily outsold by them EVEN IN THE U.S. It's really a niche vehicle, a very, very refined one, almost for someone who is afraid to go fast but likes the idea of having a powerful cushy car.
It will be interesting to see if Lexus does anything to the handling/steering on the GS460 (I doubt it). The GS450 has the rear active stabilizer but that's really just to offset the weight of the batteries.
If Lexus ever wants to outsell these German sports sedans (and I'm not sure it really does), it's doing great selling loads of RX's and high margin LS's), it's going to have to step up its game.
You can decide what exactly you care about and make out your own winner.
This is actually some kind of translated and summed up article that is in original version a bit longer. Overall, it is pretty positve article for GS, one of the most positive german reviews of Lexus ever.
04-10-06, 01:03 AM
#19
Originally Posted by 1SICKLEX
The funny thing is the 3GS steering is heavier than the 2GS, even with the L-tuned steering ECU and they still complain. I do agree there is less feedback through the wheel.
04-10-06, 04:07 AM
#20
Lexus Champion
Join Date: May 2002
Location: Connecticut
Posts: 2,175
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
The A6 is my favorite mid-luxury sedan at the moment. The interior is unlike any other in the class. It's not as luxurious as some - but it's certainly distinct.
With the S-line package - the exterior is finished nicely with large 5-arm wheels, and front, side, and rear lower-body treatment.
M.
With the S-line package - the exterior is finished nicely with large 5-arm wheels, and front, side, and rear lower-body treatment.
M.
04-10-06, 06:53 AM
#21
EV ftw!!!
Originally Posted by bitkahuna
No doubt there's German bias/favoritism in the article, but nevertheless, don't dismiss the review. In the land of autobahns, the Nurburgring road and driving tests that aren't a joke, German drivers LOVE cars that handle well, have great feel, and go fast. They like luxury also, but it's pretty much second to the performance unless you've got a chauffeur.
The GS *is* slower. It's steering *is* numb comparitively. And it *is* smaller inside and in the trunk. These are real negatives. Lexus turned the dial some from 'float boat' to 'performer' from the 2GS to the 3GS, but it isn't any serious threat to the German sports sedans. Don't forget, it is easily outsold by them EVEN IN THE U.S. It's really a niche vehicle, a very, very refined one, almost for someone who is afraid to go fast but likes the idea of having a powerful cushy car.
It will be interesting to see if Lexus does anything to the handling/steering on the GS460 (I doubt it). The GS450 has the rear active stabilizer but that's really just to offset the weight of the batteries.
If Lexus ever wants to outsell these German sports sedans (and I'm not sure it really does), it's doing great selling loads of RX's and high margin LS's), it's going to have to step up its game.
The GS *is* slower. It's steering *is* numb comparitively. And it *is* smaller inside and in the trunk. These are real negatives. Lexus turned the dial some from 'float boat' to 'performer' from the 2GS to the 3GS, but it isn't any serious threat to the German sports sedans. Don't forget, it is easily outsold by them EVEN IN THE U.S. It's really a niche vehicle, a very, very refined one, almost for someone who is afraid to go fast but likes the idea of having a powerful cushy car.
It will be interesting to see if Lexus does anything to the handling/steering on the GS460 (I doubt it). The GS450 has the rear active stabilizer but that's really just to offset the weight of the batteries.
If Lexus ever wants to outsell these German sports sedans (and I'm not sure it really does), it's doing great selling loads of RX's and high margin LS's), it's going to have to step up its game.
One very important characteristic of the Toyota philosophy and particularly about Lexus cars is their conservative attitude. I don't think they will ever make the GS to have great handling with a great steering (I sure hope Lexus does not dissappoint when they release their exotic LF-A next year). It would be nice if they did, but I doubt it very much.
If you want a drivers car, get a german car - it's that simple.
I would love to drive a Bimmer some day to open my eyes to the "numb" steering feel of a GS.
04-10-06, 12:23 PM
#22
Driver
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: CA
Posts: 146
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
HOLD IT!!!!
The 0-100km tests are completely off compared to the Manufacturers tests.
I remember the GS430 can shoot from 0-60 in 5.7 seconds and the BMW 545i used to do the same.
The current BMW 550i goes 0-60 in 5.4 seconds.
The Mercedes-Benz E500 went in about 5.5 seconds if I remember correctly.
Now I know that manufacturers tend to post lower numbers than the real time. But look at the time differance for the Lexus results they got and compare it to Lexus's. Now look at the BMW and Benz. The Lexus is one second behind it's manufacturer's claim, while the European cars are about a split second behind.
They actually claim that the GS430 is 6.7 seconds from 0-100km!? Now don't tell me that they conducted this test when the road was icy....
I don't know about you guys, but I think this test is bull.
The 0-100km tests are completely off compared to the Manufacturers tests.
I remember the GS430 can shoot from 0-60 in 5.7 seconds and the BMW 545i used to do the same.
The current BMW 550i goes 0-60 in 5.4 seconds.
The Mercedes-Benz E500 went in about 5.5 seconds if I remember correctly.
Now I know that manufacturers tend to post lower numbers than the real time. But look at the time differance for the Lexus results they got and compare it to Lexus's. Now look at the BMW and Benz. The Lexus is one second behind it's manufacturer's claim, while the European cars are about a split second behind.
They actually claim that the GS430 is 6.7 seconds from 0-100km!? Now don't tell me that they conducted this test when the road was icy....
I don't know about you guys, but I think this test is bull.
04-10-06, 02:36 PM
#23
Lexus vehicles are aimed at the older age bracket. A lot of drivers I see on the road are at least 35s. I guess most of them do not need something that can take corners at 40mph. Plus the super light steering will help the old people, and most people associate numb steering to "smooth" steering.
04-10-06, 03:14 PM
#24
Lexus Champion
Originally Posted by ic144
HOLD IT!!!!
The 0-100km tests are completely off compared to the Manufacturers tests.
I remember the GS430 can shoot from 0-60 in 5.7 seconds and the BMW 545i used to do the same.
The current BMW 550i goes 0-60 in 5.4 seconds.
The Mercedes-Benz E500 went in about 5.5 seconds if I remember correctly.
Now I know that manufacturers tend to post lower numbers than the real time. But look at the time differance for the Lexus results they got and compare it to Lexus's. Now look at the BMW and Benz. The Lexus is one second behind it's manufacturer's claim, while the European cars are about a split second behind.
They actually claim that the GS430 is 6.7 seconds from 0-100km!? Now don't tell me that they conducted this test when the road was icy....
I don't know about you guys, but I think this test is bull.
The 0-100km tests are completely off compared to the Manufacturers tests.
I remember the GS430 can shoot from 0-60 in 5.7 seconds and the BMW 545i used to do the same.
The current BMW 550i goes 0-60 in 5.4 seconds.
The Mercedes-Benz E500 went in about 5.5 seconds if I remember correctly.
Now I know that manufacturers tend to post lower numbers than the real time. But look at the time differance for the Lexus results they got and compare it to Lexus's. Now look at the BMW and Benz. The Lexus is one second behind it's manufacturer's claim, while the European cars are about a split second behind.
They actually claim that the GS430 is 6.7 seconds from 0-100km!? Now don't tell me that they conducted this test when the road was icy....
I don't know about you guys, but I think this test is bull.
04-10-06, 06:38 PM
#25
Lexus Champion
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: IL
Posts: 2,854
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Originally Posted by timoc42
The 540i is correct. although i cannot confirm with you whether this is an engine like the 545 but with smaller displacement or the old engine.
You guys are forgetting that this is in Europe, not in North America, where there is some slight differences.
Like in South east asia now, the 7 series, there's 730i, 740i and 750i. same thing for the 5 series.
You guys are forgetting that this is in Europe, not in North America, where there is some slight differences.
Like in South east asia now, the 7 series, there's 730i, 740i and 750i. same thing for the 5 series.
04-10-06, 09:52 PM
#26
Originally Posted by GSteg
Lexus vehicles are aimed at the older age bracket. A lot of drivers I see on the road are at least 35s. I guess most of them do not need something that can take corners at 40mph. Plus the super light steering will help the old people, and most people associate numb steering to "smooth" steering.
and the IS owners, the avg age of them is very young, easily in the 20s imho. it handles very well, but still lack some from the bmw.
i think it's just about the philosophy behind manufacturers' mindset
04-10-06, 09:59 PM
#27
Lexus Champion
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: California
Posts: 1,832
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Lexus might never outsell those German brands in Europe, because Europeans are very very biased towards good handling, stick shift fast cars. They don't appreciate the extreme comfort and excellent long-term reliability which German cars could never approach that Lexus offers. I could care less about any European car magazines' reviews. In my opinion GS is only behind 5-series.
04-10-06, 10:01 PM
#28
Guest
Posts: n/a
Originally Posted by GSteg
Lexus vehicles are aimed at the older age bracket. A lot of drivers I see on the road are at least 35s. I guess most of them do not need something that can take corners at 40mph. Plus the super light steering will help the old people, and most people associate numb steering to "smooth" steering.
04-11-06, 05:40 AM
#29
Lexus Fanatic
iTrader: (20)
Originally Posted by TwiBlueG35
Lexus might never outsell those German brands in Europe, because Europeans are very very biased towards good handling, stick shift fast cars. They don't appreciate the extreme comfort and excellent long-term reliability which German cars could never approach that Lexus offers. I could care less about any European car magazines' reviews. In my opinion GS is only behind 5-series.
My neighbor has 4 Mercedes vehicles which are very comfortable and average about 16 years old! Sure they've had maintenance but by and large they've been very reliable. They just got an '03 E500 so we'll see how that goes. Even though I've been in one before I was surprised by how beautiful the interior of his new E500 - it's black with the walnut band of wood that goes all the way from one door across the dash to the other door - looks really great. The new GS by comparison is very plain with no wood on the dash.
Thread
Thread Starter
Forum
Replies
Last Post
986wang
GS - 3rd Gen (2006-2011)
4
02-23-05 07:11 AM
