Slow Moving Hybrids Clogging Car Pool Lanes . . .
04-11-06, 06:07 PM
#1
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Slow Moving Hybrids Clogging Car Pool Lanes . . .
In Carpool Lanes, Hybrids Find Cold Shoulders
Other motorists gripe that drivers of the fuel-efficient vehicles are slowing the HOV flow.
By Amanda Covarrubias, Times Staff Writer
April 10, 2006
When California allowed solo occupants of hybrid cars to use carpool lanes last year, many thought they were merging onto a narrow strip of car culture heaven.
But increasingly, hybrid owners say they feel like the victims of road rage.
Carpoolers accuse them of driving too slowly in order to maximize their fuel efficiency, and of clogging diamond lanes that were once clear.
Hybrid motorists even have a term for the ill will: "Prius backlash."
"There's a mentality out there that we're a bunch of liberal hippies or we're trying to make some statement on the environment," said Travis Ruff, a real estate agent from Newbury Park who drives a Toyota Prius. "People are a lot less friendly than when I drove a Mercedes."
Caltrans, which has issued carpool-lane stickers for about 50,000 hybrid cars, plans to study the effect of hybrids on carpool lanes, starting with the 405, 210 and 105 freeways.
"There's not enough excess capacity to absorb the hybrids," said James Moore, director of USC's transportation engineering program. "I think the foreseeable outcome here is that the congestion advantage we traditionally attribute to [carpool] lanes will disappear."
A debate over carpool-lane congestion also is occurring in Virginia, which like California allows solo hybrid drivers to use the lanes. Last month, the Virginia Legislature placed curbs on hybrid drivers using the lanes in peak hours, requiring three or more people per vehicle, except for those grandfathered in.
The California Legislature approved the hybrids in carpool lanes as a way of encouraging the use of the low-emission, high-fuel-economy vehicles.
The law grants carpool-lane access to hybrids that get at least 45 mpg. So far, only the Toyota Prius, Honda Civic and Honda Insight qualify. The vehicles use small internal-combustion engines in combination with electric motors to increase gas mileage and reduce air pollution. Larger hybrid SUVs and luxury sedans with solo drivers are not allowed in carpool lanes.
From the beginning, the law has prompted complaints from carpoolers. But in recent months the criticism has grown louder as carpoolers accuse hybrid drivers of clogging the lanes, also known as high-occupancy vehicle lanes.
"Prius drivers tend to drive slower, and it makes the HOV lanes slower," said Theresa Poprac, who commutes on the 405 Freeway every morning from her home near Los Angeles International Airport to her job as head of sales for an educational software company in Costa Mesa.
The chatter is more biting in Internet car chat rooms, where some carpoolers have declared themselves "hybrid haters."
"These [drivers] barely go 65 mph and allow no one to pass them on the right," fumed one driver on the Edmunds.com car town hall. "Talk about road rage!"
"Go with the flow, or get the heck outta the way!!!," wrote another in support.
Beyond the driving habits of hybrid users, carpoolers gripe that all those Priuses are beginning to clog the diamond lanes. On some freeways, it's clear hybrid drivers are shaving substantial minutes off their commute by going in the carpool lane. But on others, that doesn't appear to be the case.
Mar Vista resident and hybrid owner Jan Strnand, who often drives the 405 Freeway to Carson, said he has not been impressed with the program.
"Much of the time, the HOV lanes and standard lanes are going at the same rates, so there's no advantage," said Strnand, a television writer. "You do the math…. How many can you add [to the carpool lane] before it's more of a deterrent than it is a help?"
Assemblywoman Fran Pavley (D-Agoura Hills), who proposed the hybrid carpool-lane bill, said most hybrid users tell her they love the privilege. Still, she acknowledged that on some freeways, the time saved during rush hour has been a question — something the state study will seek to sort out.
But the Prius backlash isn't confined to California's carpool lanes. On a recent episode of Comedy Central's "South Park," one of the cartoon characters persuades everyone in town to buy a hybrid car. But hybrids end up creating their own air pollution. Not smog. "Smug."
source : latimes
Other motorists gripe that drivers of the fuel-efficient vehicles are slowing the HOV flow.
By Amanda Covarrubias, Times Staff Writer
April 10, 2006
When California allowed solo occupants of hybrid cars to use carpool lanes last year, many thought they were merging onto a narrow strip of car culture heaven.
But increasingly, hybrid owners say they feel like the victims of road rage.
Carpoolers accuse them of driving too slowly in order to maximize their fuel efficiency, and of clogging diamond lanes that were once clear.
Hybrid motorists even have a term for the ill will: "Prius backlash."
"There's a mentality out there that we're a bunch of liberal hippies or we're trying to make some statement on the environment," said Travis Ruff, a real estate agent from Newbury Park who drives a Toyota Prius. "People are a lot less friendly than when I drove a Mercedes."
Caltrans, which has issued carpool-lane stickers for about 50,000 hybrid cars, plans to study the effect of hybrids on carpool lanes, starting with the 405, 210 and 105 freeways.
"There's not enough excess capacity to absorb the hybrids," said James Moore, director of USC's transportation engineering program. "I think the foreseeable outcome here is that the congestion advantage we traditionally attribute to [carpool] lanes will disappear."
A debate over carpool-lane congestion also is occurring in Virginia, which like California allows solo hybrid drivers to use the lanes. Last month, the Virginia Legislature placed curbs on hybrid drivers using the lanes in peak hours, requiring three or more people per vehicle, except for those grandfathered in.
The California Legislature approved the hybrids in carpool lanes as a way of encouraging the use of the low-emission, high-fuel-economy vehicles.
The law grants carpool-lane access to hybrids that get at least 45 mpg. So far, only the Toyota Prius, Honda Civic and Honda Insight qualify. The vehicles use small internal-combustion engines in combination with electric motors to increase gas mileage and reduce air pollution. Larger hybrid SUVs and luxury sedans with solo drivers are not allowed in carpool lanes.
From the beginning, the law has prompted complaints from carpoolers. But in recent months the criticism has grown louder as carpoolers accuse hybrid drivers of clogging the lanes, also known as high-occupancy vehicle lanes.
"Prius drivers tend to drive slower, and it makes the HOV lanes slower," said Theresa Poprac, who commutes on the 405 Freeway every morning from her home near Los Angeles International Airport to her job as head of sales for an educational software company in Costa Mesa.
The chatter is more biting in Internet car chat rooms, where some carpoolers have declared themselves "hybrid haters."
"These [drivers] barely go 65 mph and allow no one to pass them on the right," fumed one driver on the Edmunds.com car town hall. "Talk about road rage!"
"Go with the flow, or get the heck outta the way!!!," wrote another in support.
Beyond the driving habits of hybrid users, carpoolers gripe that all those Priuses are beginning to clog the diamond lanes. On some freeways, it's clear hybrid drivers are shaving substantial minutes off their commute by going in the carpool lane. But on others, that doesn't appear to be the case.
Mar Vista resident and hybrid owner Jan Strnand, who often drives the 405 Freeway to Carson, said he has not been impressed with the program.
"Much of the time, the HOV lanes and standard lanes are going at the same rates, so there's no advantage," said Strnand, a television writer. "You do the math…. How many can you add [to the carpool lane] before it's more of a deterrent than it is a help?"
Assemblywoman Fran Pavley (D-Agoura Hills), who proposed the hybrid carpool-lane bill, said most hybrid users tell her they love the privilege. Still, she acknowledged that on some freeways, the time saved during rush hour has been a question — something the state study will seek to sort out.
But the Prius backlash isn't confined to California's carpool lanes. On a recent episode of Comedy Central's "South Park," one of the cartoon characters persuades everyone in town to buy a hybrid car. But hybrids end up creating their own air pollution. Not smog. "Smug."
source : latimes
04-11-06, 06:14 PM
#4
Speaks French in Russian
Did these Diamond lanes actually decrease conjestion in Cali?? I dont have much experience with these lanes as they were only used in some parts of NJ for a short time and did absolutely nothing.
04-11-06, 06:18 PM
#5
Originally Posted by magneto112
Did these Diamond lanes actually decrease conjestion in Cali?? I dont have much experience with these lanes as they were only used in some parts of NJ for a short time and did absolutely nothing.
Its pretty insane...
My Prius is definetly not clogging any line (heh), but question is if it is ok to drive 80 mph in carpool lines, when rest of the traffic is a lot, lot slower than them...
04-11-06, 10:18 PM
#6
i don't know, most of the hybrid drivers on the car pool lane i find them drive pretty darn fast.... to me it's like you see slow drivers in any cars anyway.... probably coz' these people can drive in carpool lane with one people and that got some other people jealous?
04-11-06, 10:52 PM
#7
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I guess it's a little different in Northern California since there aren't solid double yellow lines separating the carpool lane from regular traffic. Thus, cars entering and exiting the carpool lanes naturally slow down the flow of traffic.
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04-12-06, 12:39 AM
#8
Originally Posted by cal_alum98
I guess it's a little different in Northern California since there aren't solid double yellow lines separating the carpool lane from regular traffic. Thus, cars entering and exiting the carpool lanes naturally slow down the flow of traffic.
That is how it is in my state. The car pool lane is nothing but a regular lane that turns into a car pool lane at certain hours in the morning and afternoon. Unlike the SUther California ones that I drove on where they are dedicated entirely seperate lanes and elevated highways at times. Also, I guess they enforce the entry and exit a bit more. I love those car pool lanes and it is 24/7 I believe.
04-12-06, 01:20 AM
#9
Lexus Champion
Originally Posted by CK6Speed
That is how it is in my state. The car pool lane is nothing but a regular lane that turns into a car pool lane at certain hours in the morning and afternoon. Unlike the SUther California ones that I drove on where they are dedicated entirely seperate lanes and elevated highways at times. Also, I guess they enforce the entry and exit a bit more. I love those car pool lanes and it is 24/7 I believe.
mother*****************************8888 those people
04-12-06, 01:23 AM
#10
Originally Posted by jracerlmn
lol go to irvine and people drive in and out of the carpool lane like it's any other lane....
mother*****************************8888 those people
mother*****************************8888 those people
amazing
04-12-06, 07:57 AM
#12
Lexus Champion
Originally Posted by jracerlmn
lol go to irvine and people drive in and out of the carpool lane like it's any other lane....
mother*****************************8888 those people
mother*****************************8888 those people
04-12-06, 08:52 AM
#14
Originally Posted by CK6Speed
Hehehe, I gues you have to be a local to break the rules 
I was a good boy and entered and exited correctly 
I was a good boy and entered and exited correctly 
driving way too slow, way too polite
01-20-10, 05:51 PM
#15
End of the Road
All good things must come to an end, and it's the same with the wildwood weed ... err, with California's HOV-Lane access perk for owners of three hybrids: the Toyota Prius, Honda Civic Hybrid, and Honda Insight. They are set to expire on December 31 of this year.
Originally passed in 2005, the law opened California's high-occupancy vehicle (HOV) lanes, restricted to carpools, to a limited number of very low-emission vehicles even if there was just a single person in the car.
THe law's goal was to give buyers an incentive to trade in their old cars for a far more fuel-efficient Toyota Prius (any year), Honda Civic Hybrid (any year), or original Honda Insight (1999-2006).
85,000 stickers only
And it worked. California set the number of stickers at 75,000, and they were all allocated in less than a year. A further allotment of 10,000 was similarly snapped up at the start of 2007. Though the process was cumbersome, the stickers cost just $8 apiece.
Last year, Audatex (which automates insurance-claim processing) calculated that a used hybrid with a permit was worth $1,200 to $1,500 more than one without. With the end in sight, we expect that value would be substantially lower today.
No longer for sale
But several hybrid owners told San Jose's popular Roadshow editor Gary Richards that they'd spend $500 to hang onto their stickers past the expiration. (He reports on Bay Area transportation news.) That's an unlikely scenario, though.
Federal highway officials says congestion in carpool lanes is increasing throughout California, Richards writes. Ending access for single-occupancy vehicles would speed the ride for more people--trading off incremental gains in fuel efficiency and air quality for moving more bodies.
Other Prius perks in peril?
HOV-Lane access is one of a number of so-called Prius Perks offered to drivers of high-mileage hybrids. As we noted last summer, in what became the single best-read article of our entire year's most popular posts, those perks are now also in peril from technology change.
In years to come, such privileges may be transferred from increasingly common hybrids to the newer class of plug-in vehicles, which run some of their miles using grid power rather than any gasoline at all. Examples are the 2011 Chevrolet Volt, 2012 Toyota Prius Plug-In Hybrid, and the 2012 Nissan Leaf.
Originally passed in 2005, the law opened California's high-occupancy vehicle (HOV) lanes, restricted to carpools, to a limited number of very low-emission vehicles even if there was just a single person in the car.
THe law's goal was to give buyers an incentive to trade in their old cars for a far more fuel-efficient Toyota Prius (any year), Honda Civic Hybrid (any year), or original Honda Insight (1999-2006).
85,000 stickers only
And it worked. California set the number of stickers at 75,000, and they were all allocated in less than a year. A further allotment of 10,000 was similarly snapped up at the start of 2007. Though the process was cumbersome, the stickers cost just $8 apiece.
Last year, Audatex (which automates insurance-claim processing) calculated that a used hybrid with a permit was worth $1,200 to $1,500 more than one without. With the end in sight, we expect that value would be substantially lower today.
No longer for sale
But several hybrid owners told San Jose's popular Roadshow editor Gary Richards that they'd spend $500 to hang onto their stickers past the expiration. (He reports on Bay Area transportation news.) That's an unlikely scenario, though.
Federal highway officials says congestion in carpool lanes is increasing throughout California, Richards writes. Ending access for single-occupancy vehicles would speed the ride for more people--trading off incremental gains in fuel efficiency and air quality for moving more bodies.
Other Prius perks in peril?
HOV-Lane access is one of a number of so-called Prius Perks offered to drivers of high-mileage hybrids. As we noted last summer, in what became the single best-read article of our entire year's most popular posts, those perks are now also in peril from technology change.
In years to come, such privileges may be transferred from increasingly common hybrids to the newer class of plug-in vehicles, which run some of their miles using grid power rather than any gasoline at all. Examples are the 2011 Chevrolet Volt, 2012 Toyota Prius Plug-In Hybrid, and the 2012 Nissan Leaf.
Last edited by GS69; 01-20-10 at 08:10 PM.