Review: 2007 Chevrolet Tahoe
04-13-06, 06:37 AM
#1
Lexus Fanatic
Thread Starter
Review: 2007 Chevrolet Tahoe
http://www.chevrolet.com/tahoe/
In a Nutshell: Though there is still work to do, GM finally starts to deliver on some of its promises.
This is my first full review of an officially badged 2007 vehicle, partly for my own curiosity but also in response to requests from several of you......and several of my co-workers. GM first publically displayed their new full-size SUV's at the major auto shows in January, including the D.C Show here, where I spent probably more time with them than with any other vehicles at the show, and for good reason. Not surprisingly, GM has run a massive ad campaign for them, especially in the auto magazines. A GM marketing specialist and camera crew interviewed me at the DC show concerning these vehicles, but I of course did not get a copy of that video and cannot post it. And kudos to GM, at the show, for for keeping the Chevy and GMC versions not only out on the floor but unlocked as well, so the public could get a good look at them and they could be examined throughly. Only the Cadillac Escalade was left up on the turntable with the recite-the- B.S.-off-the-cue-card announcers....but they did leave the Escalade's doors unlocked so you could get at least a cursory view of the Escalade's plush new interior...which of course will be needed as arch-rival Lincoln also has beautiful new super-plush white interiors as well.
So why the Tahoe? A number of reasons. First, of course, some of you guys .....and one or two of my co-workers......requested it. Second, the Tahoe and Suburban rank among the most popular of the U.S.-market full-size SUV's, along with the arch-rival Ford Expedition and Lincoln Navigator. The even larger, relatively short-lived Ford Excursion was an attempt to out-do even the Suburban and Yukon XL in size but soon fell victim to to the vocal armies of political correctness, arm-and-a-leg priced gasoline, and, most of all, its own atrocious road manners and driving characteristics, which can best be described as piloting a battleship in choppy seas. ( Trust me....I know...I drove one several years ago ).
Third, the new GM full-size SUV's are NOT cheap, and neither were their predecessors.....you need either a pretty good bank account or a generous loan officer if you are going to take one of these dinosaurs home, even on a lease. These vehicles have received a lot of publicity; they are replacing vehicles that were quite popular as well, ( and in some cases used by police departments ) and of course carry that " gotta-have-it-now " mentality with a lot of prospective new customers. That, of course, often means " gotta pay " as well, so I wouldn't look for a whole lot of discounts or incentives right now, even though GM is famous for them. Of course, an unknown right now is how the high...and rising.....price of gas will impact Tahoe and and other large SUV sales. That could force another round of the now-common GM incentives, even on a brand-new vehicle like this. As I write this, regular 87-octane in my DC area ranges from $2.80 to $3.05. Fortunately the standard 5.3 VORTEC V8 doesn't need the even more expensive premuim gas, and a gasohol E85 version of this engine is available. A hybrid version is coming later in the year, but I but GM has not yet, to my knowledge, released full details on its powertrain and whether it will be a only an engine-stop partial hybrid like its brother the Silverado or true gas-electric hybrids like Hondas and Toyotas. I have received at least one request to review the hybrid and will do so when they become available....IF there are any that are not already pre-sold. In the meantime, I'm sure that LexArazzo and 1SICKLEX, always our faithful CL auto news posters, no doubt provide us with the details when they are published ( or perhaps before
)
Fourth, the Tahoe and its siblings are quite versatile. Not only can they carry a good crew of people, but they can handle ( in 4X4 versions ) foul weather, slug-through-the-boonies conditions off-road, and, in any version, heavy towing as well. In addition, more and more, this has become the vehicle class of choice for parents who don't do heavy towing or off-roading but just want a large vehicle with a solid frame and plenty of sheet metal all around to protect Junior riding in the back seat or third row....it has become a safety issue as well. Fortunately the reverse is true as well...the Tahoe, along with virtually all new large SUV's, have bumper-height and frame improvements to help keep them from demolishing small cars and decapitating their occupants in an impact. And, for those Tahoe owners who DO want the heavy-duty stuff, various GM-approved tow-rating and off-road packages and accessories are available.
2007 Tahoes ae currently available in 5 trim lines.....LS, LT1, LT2, LT3, and LTZ. I chose the LT1 for the review because I felt that not only was the Tahoe in general the easiest and most affordavle way to get into a big GM SUV, but the LT1 version represented, in my judgement, for most people, overall the the best compromise of price, trim quality, equipment, looks, and payload. for now only one engine is available...the 5.3L VORTEC V8, although as I mentioned, an E85 gasohol version is available, and future 4.8L and and either full or partial hybrid versions are on the way.
Now........yes, I know.......we hear a lot of promises from Lutz, Wagner, and other top people at GM about how much better their new products are now and how they are going to out-Lexus even Lexus in the quality department ( don't hold your breath ). And never mind the fact that GM's main problem is right now is staying off the auction block. My experience with most of the new or redesigned GM products is that for the most part, they have some minor improvements in fit-and-finish ( primarily the dash and gauges ) but in general, with the possible exceptions of the Corvette, Cadillac STS, Chevy Aveo, and Pontiac GTO ( an Australian Holden product ), they are just the same old GM cheapness in paint, hardware, and sheetmetal in a new wrapper. However, in the lights and finely detailed atmosphere of the DC auto show, the new Tahoe and the other big GM SUV's, unlike most of the rest of the GM line, both looked AND felt impressive.
I was quite pleased with them, based on what I saw under the lights at the show...and I made several CL posts on this. But....the important question is: like the girl you fall in love with on the moonlight dates and marry, but then have to live with her faults day after day ( and, of course, she with yours ) does the new Tahoe STILL charm now that I have had a chance to see it and drive it in the REAL world? Is GM really delivering on its promises this time ?
The answer is Yes......and No. Read on.
Model Reviewed: 2007 Chevrolet Tahoe 4WD LT1.
Exterior: Silvr Birch Metallic
Interior: Ebony / Light Cashmere Leather
Powertrain: 5.3L VORTEC regular-gas V8, 320 HP@5200 RPM, Torque 340 ft.-lbs. @ 4000
RPM, 4-speed overdrive transmission with non-overdrive tow / haul mode, electrically controlled and activated 2WD / AWD /4WD H / 4WD L transfer case with low range. GM Stabilitrak stability control.
Base price: $37,665
Major Options: LT2 Equipment Group, Folding 3rd Row Seat, Bose Premium Speakers.
List Price: $41,980
PLUSSES:
New rack-and-pinion steering gear brings steering response and handling out of the Dark Ages.
SOLID ladder-truck frame like the Rock of Gibraltar.
Smooth, quiet ride...........especially by body-on frame truck standards.
Plush, handsome, well-crafted, Lexus-like dash and gauges....a tremendous improvement over its predecessor.
Clean, handsome body lines.
Smooth, quiet engine and transmission.
Seamless AWD / 4WD system ( I did not go off-road to test the low range...difficult to do in this vast D.C. region )
Reasonable EPA gas mileage figures considering its size and weight.
Easily folded and operated 2nd and 3rd row seats ( which are removable as well ) despite the lack of power activation ( but not quite as versatile as Chrysler's Stow-and-Go system ).
Generally easy-to-use and understand controls.
High-quality hardware on the dash.
Full-size spare mounted underneath the rear where it doesn't take up interior space.
MINUSES:
Same old GM cheapness in paint, sheet metal, and much of the interior apart from the superb dash.
Dull, Ho-Hum paint colors, apart from the beautiful and stunning Bermuda Blue Metallic ( really a bright aqua-turquoise ) which is an extra-cost option.
Somewhat cheap-feeling doors.
Spongy, ineffective brakes only slightly improved from the very poor ones on the previous model.
Handsome dash and door wood trim not available on the base LS version.
VORTEC V8 has marginal power despite 340 ft.-lbs. of torque...this shows in the vehicle's weight and power-robbing equipment.
Questionable electronics and defects.
The first impression you get of this vehicle as you walk up to it, ( besides its obvious large size even though it is shorter than big-brother Suburban ) is that of not only a total redesidn but a rather handsome one as well. The body lines and panels, despite the typical GM shoddiness in sheet metal quality, are smooth, attractive, clean-looking, and tastefully done. Perhaps in the base LS version it is TOO clean, as that model could use a little more body trim to break up the monotony. The reviewed LT1 version had body-colored lower-door moldings that gave it some nice visual accents.
This is also a TALL vehicle. I am 6' 2" and I had to reach up over my head to get to the roof rack, though the side running boards help a little. The Tahoe, though, is so tall that I would question the wisdom of carrying things up there.....not only the relative difficulty of loading things on the high roof-rack but the fact they raise the center-of-gravity on a margainally unstable vehicle even more. ( Consumer Reports, BTW, also shares this opinion...they do not recommend carrying heavy objects on the roof of tall SUV's regardless of manufacturer ratings ) GM's Stabilitrak vehicle-stability system ( standard on 2007 Tahoes ), unlike the dual-function Ford / Volvo XC-90 system, controls only yaw ( understeer or oversteer ) , not yaw and roll combined, so you can still flip it over if you drive and corner hard in unstable conditions.
Once inside ( after a step-up on the running boards ) you are treated to a superb, high-quality, slick-hardware, attractive-looking dash with a handsome, wood-swirl pattern, brushed-metal, and chrome...it looks ( and feels ) like it could have come out of a Lexus. Here, GM clearly has kept one of its promises..although the base LS version's dash is not as impressive-looking as the LT's.
Unfortunately, the fit-and-finish of the rest of the interior and exterior is........well.......typical GM, and you know what that means. A sub-standard paint job, cheap-looking and feeling interior parts, low fit-and-finish, and a general Wal-Mart cost-cutting look to it. There is a cavernous amount of interior room, however ( expected in this class of vehicle ) and drivers of almost ANY size will have no problems whatsoever with either head or legroom, thanks to the electrically adjustable foot pedals The leather seats are fairly comfortable and supportive, with many power adjustments....but clearly are not designed for sports-car cornering ( which, of course, would roll this vehicle over anyway ). The 2nd and optional 3rd-row seats ( more and more SUV buyers are demanding that 3rd-row nowadays ) are well-designed and with the easy-to-use manual flip-down levers, are simple to convert to cargo space......but they are not quite as versatile as Chrysler's ingeniously designed Stow-and-Go system, perhaps because of the compromises required under the vehicle for the 4WD hardware. There are dual front climate control systems and auxillary ones for the rear seats.....and rear-seat electronic entertainment systems are available as options.
No fancy luxury-style keyless push-button starters here.....you put the key in and start the engine the conventional way. The 5.3L VORTEC V8 fires right up with a smooth and quiet idle...and remains smooth and quiet, along with the 4-speed automatic, even under hard acceleration.
Or, at least, what passes for acceleration. The 5.3, while no slouch of a motor, is clearly overburdened by the vehicle's size, weight, box-car aerodynamics, and the weight and drag of 4WD....even the 2WD mode, with the A/C on, will keep you in the slow lane. More power, of course, would address this problem but would also probably worsen the Tahoe's fairly reasonable EPA mileage ratings. I did not sample the E85 / gasahol engine and cannot comment on its performance. The typical-GM smooth, quiet transmission has a steering-column-mounted shift lever with a tow / haul mode that keeps it out of overdrive with a load that would make the marginally-powered engine lug even more.
You are treated to a nice, smooth, quiet ride, especially by ladder-frame truck standards....noticeably better than its predecessor ( GM...you've kept one more promise here ). There is only a small trace of the typical large-SUV front-to-rear porpoising motion, and bumps and the road surface in general are well-isolated. Fortunately, there is no severe penalty for this in handling, which is responsive and well-controlled ,especially with the new rack-and-pinion steering which sharpens the steering response quite a bit from the old truck recirculating-ball system. ( One more promise kept, GM ). Of course, this is no sports car....it is high and marginally unstable even with the new steering and stability systems, and one must drive it with common sense, as with all high-center-of-gravity SUV's.
One must also brake this vehicle with common sense..... ( back to the drawing board on this one, GM ). Unfortunately, while the brakes are somewhat improved over the awful ones in the last-generation GM full-size SUV's, there is clearly a lot of work left to do. Much of the same old Push-and-Pray wet-sponge effect is still there, although if you really stomp it you do get some response, unlike the old ones. Still, even with the new system, you will soon learn NOT to tailgate people....and to anticipate your braking needs in advance.
One problem may or may not have been related to the brakes...it is hard to tell. The specific vehicle I drove had an electronic problem that surfaced at first with the brake pedal causing the power door locks to click open and shut every time you pressed the pedal. Then it moved on to where you would hear the click-click every time you hit a bump. Then it would happen under BOTH conditions. Then it would happen completely at random...or constantly.
It appears to be a teething problem with the vehicle's electronics. Let's just hope that it is an isolated problem and that these vehicles don't wind up with Mercedes-Benz style electronics that are in the shop more than out.
So.....the verdict? GM clearly has kept some promises, like the superb Lexus-quality dash in the upper-trim models, driver-friendly steering and handling, low noise levels, easy-to-use family-friendly seats, and styling that is pleasant and attractive to look at. Other promises have not been kept......such as the continuing GM cheapness in body / paint quality, interior fit-and-finish ( apart from the dash ) and sub-standard hardware. And, of course, the inevitable teething problems that seem to affect so many domestically-designed vehicles.
In a Nutshell: Though there is still work to do, GM finally starts to deliver on some of its promises.
This is my first full review of an officially badged 2007 vehicle, partly for my own curiosity but also in response to requests from several of you......and several of my co-workers. GM first publically displayed their new full-size SUV's at the major auto shows in January, including the D.C Show here, where I spent probably more time with them than with any other vehicles at the show, and for good reason. Not surprisingly, GM has run a massive ad campaign for them, especially in the auto magazines. A GM marketing specialist and camera crew interviewed me at the DC show concerning these vehicles, but I of course did not get a copy of that video and cannot post it. And kudos to GM, at the show, for for keeping the Chevy and GMC versions not only out on the floor but unlocked as well, so the public could get a good look at them and they could be examined throughly. Only the Cadillac Escalade was left up on the turntable with the recite-the- B.S.-off-the-cue-card announcers....but they did leave the Escalade's doors unlocked so you could get at least a cursory view of the Escalade's plush new interior...which of course will be needed as arch-rival Lincoln also has beautiful new super-plush white interiors as well.
So why the Tahoe? A number of reasons. First, of course, some of you guys .....and one or two of my co-workers......requested it. Second, the Tahoe and Suburban rank among the most popular of the U.S.-market full-size SUV's, along with the arch-rival Ford Expedition and Lincoln Navigator. The even larger, relatively short-lived Ford Excursion was an attempt to out-do even the Suburban and Yukon XL in size but soon fell victim to to the vocal armies of political correctness, arm-and-a-leg priced gasoline, and, most of all, its own atrocious road manners and driving characteristics, which can best be described as piloting a battleship in choppy seas. ( Trust me....I know...I drove one several years ago ).
Third, the new GM full-size SUV's are NOT cheap, and neither were their predecessors.....you need either a pretty good bank account or a generous loan officer if you are going to take one of these dinosaurs home, even on a lease. These vehicles have received a lot of publicity; they are replacing vehicles that were quite popular as well, ( and in some cases used by police departments ) and of course carry that " gotta-have-it-now " mentality with a lot of prospective new customers. That, of course, often means " gotta pay " as well, so I wouldn't look for a whole lot of discounts or incentives right now, even though GM is famous for them. Of course, an unknown right now is how the high...and rising.....price of gas will impact Tahoe and and other large SUV sales. That could force another round of the now-common GM incentives, even on a brand-new vehicle like this. As I write this, regular 87-octane in my DC area ranges from $2.80 to $3.05. Fortunately the standard 5.3 VORTEC V8 doesn't need the even more expensive premuim gas, and a gasohol E85 version of this engine is available. A hybrid version is coming later in the year, but I but GM has not yet, to my knowledge, released full details on its powertrain and whether it will be a only an engine-stop partial hybrid like its brother the Silverado or true gas-electric hybrids like Hondas and Toyotas. I have received at least one request to review the hybrid and will do so when they become available....IF there are any that are not already pre-sold. In the meantime, I'm sure that LexArazzo and 1SICKLEX, always our faithful CL auto news posters, no doubt provide us with the details when they are published ( or perhaps before
)Fourth, the Tahoe and its siblings are quite versatile. Not only can they carry a good crew of people, but they can handle ( in 4X4 versions ) foul weather, slug-through-the-boonies conditions off-road, and, in any version, heavy towing as well. In addition, more and more, this has become the vehicle class of choice for parents who don't do heavy towing or off-roading but just want a large vehicle with a solid frame and plenty of sheet metal all around to protect Junior riding in the back seat or third row....it has become a safety issue as well. Fortunately the reverse is true as well...the Tahoe, along with virtually all new large SUV's, have bumper-height and frame improvements to help keep them from demolishing small cars and decapitating their occupants in an impact. And, for those Tahoe owners who DO want the heavy-duty stuff, various GM-approved tow-rating and off-road packages and accessories are available.
2007 Tahoes ae currently available in 5 trim lines.....LS, LT1, LT2, LT3, and LTZ. I chose the LT1 for the review because I felt that not only was the Tahoe in general the easiest and most affordavle way to get into a big GM SUV, but the LT1 version represented, in my judgement, for most people, overall the the best compromise of price, trim quality, equipment, looks, and payload. for now only one engine is available...the 5.3L VORTEC V8, although as I mentioned, an E85 gasohol version is available, and future 4.8L and and either full or partial hybrid versions are on the way.
Now........yes, I know.......we hear a lot of promises from Lutz, Wagner, and other top people at GM about how much better their new products are now and how they are going to out-Lexus even Lexus in the quality department ( don't hold your breath ). And never mind the fact that GM's main problem is right now is staying off the auction block. My experience with most of the new or redesigned GM products is that for the most part, they have some minor improvements in fit-and-finish ( primarily the dash and gauges ) but in general, with the possible exceptions of the Corvette, Cadillac STS, Chevy Aveo, and Pontiac GTO ( an Australian Holden product ), they are just the same old GM cheapness in paint, hardware, and sheetmetal in a new wrapper. However, in the lights and finely detailed atmosphere of the DC auto show, the new Tahoe and the other big GM SUV's, unlike most of the rest of the GM line, both looked AND felt impressive.
I was quite pleased with them, based on what I saw under the lights at the show...and I made several CL posts on this. But....the important question is: like the girl you fall in love with on the moonlight dates and marry, but then have to live with her faults day after day ( and, of course, she with yours ) does the new Tahoe STILL charm now that I have had a chance to see it and drive it in the REAL world? Is GM really delivering on its promises this time ?
The answer is Yes......and No. Read on.
Model Reviewed: 2007 Chevrolet Tahoe 4WD LT1.
Exterior: Silvr Birch Metallic
Interior: Ebony / Light Cashmere Leather
Powertrain: 5.3L VORTEC regular-gas V8, 320 HP@5200 RPM, Torque 340 ft.-lbs. @ 4000
RPM, 4-speed overdrive transmission with non-overdrive tow / haul mode, electrically controlled and activated 2WD / AWD /4WD H / 4WD L transfer case with low range. GM Stabilitrak stability control.
Base price: $37,665
Major Options: LT2 Equipment Group, Folding 3rd Row Seat, Bose Premium Speakers.
List Price: $41,980
PLUSSES:
New rack-and-pinion steering gear brings steering response and handling out of the Dark Ages.
SOLID ladder-truck frame like the Rock of Gibraltar.
Smooth, quiet ride...........especially by body-on frame truck standards.
Plush, handsome, well-crafted, Lexus-like dash and gauges....a tremendous improvement over its predecessor.
Clean, handsome body lines.
Smooth, quiet engine and transmission.
Seamless AWD / 4WD system ( I did not go off-road to test the low range...difficult to do in this vast D.C. region )
Reasonable EPA gas mileage figures considering its size and weight.
Easily folded and operated 2nd and 3rd row seats ( which are removable as well ) despite the lack of power activation ( but not quite as versatile as Chrysler's Stow-and-Go system ).
Generally easy-to-use and understand controls.
High-quality hardware on the dash.
Full-size spare mounted underneath the rear where it doesn't take up interior space.
MINUSES:
Same old GM cheapness in paint, sheet metal, and much of the interior apart from the superb dash.
Dull, Ho-Hum paint colors, apart from the beautiful and stunning Bermuda Blue Metallic ( really a bright aqua-turquoise ) which is an extra-cost option.
Somewhat cheap-feeling doors.
Spongy, ineffective brakes only slightly improved from the very poor ones on the previous model.
Handsome dash and door wood trim not available on the base LS version.
VORTEC V8 has marginal power despite 340 ft.-lbs. of torque...this shows in the vehicle's weight and power-robbing equipment.
Questionable electronics and defects.
The first impression you get of this vehicle as you walk up to it, ( besides its obvious large size even though it is shorter than big-brother Suburban ) is that of not only a total redesidn but a rather handsome one as well. The body lines and panels, despite the typical GM shoddiness in sheet metal quality, are smooth, attractive, clean-looking, and tastefully done. Perhaps in the base LS version it is TOO clean, as that model could use a little more body trim to break up the monotony. The reviewed LT1 version had body-colored lower-door moldings that gave it some nice visual accents.
This is also a TALL vehicle. I am 6' 2" and I had to reach up over my head to get to the roof rack, though the side running boards help a little. The Tahoe, though, is so tall that I would question the wisdom of carrying things up there.....not only the relative difficulty of loading things on the high roof-rack but the fact they raise the center-of-gravity on a margainally unstable vehicle even more. ( Consumer Reports, BTW, also shares this opinion...they do not recommend carrying heavy objects on the roof of tall SUV's regardless of manufacturer ratings ) GM's Stabilitrak vehicle-stability system ( standard on 2007 Tahoes ), unlike the dual-function Ford / Volvo XC-90 system, controls only yaw ( understeer or oversteer ) , not yaw and roll combined, so you can still flip it over if you drive and corner hard in unstable conditions.
Once inside ( after a step-up on the running boards ) you are treated to a superb, high-quality, slick-hardware, attractive-looking dash with a handsome, wood-swirl pattern, brushed-metal, and chrome...it looks ( and feels ) like it could have come out of a Lexus. Here, GM clearly has kept one of its promises..although the base LS version's dash is not as impressive-looking as the LT's.
Unfortunately, the fit-and-finish of the rest of the interior and exterior is........well.......typical GM, and you know what that means. A sub-standard paint job, cheap-looking and feeling interior parts, low fit-and-finish, and a general Wal-Mart cost-cutting look to it. There is a cavernous amount of interior room, however ( expected in this class of vehicle ) and drivers of almost ANY size will have no problems whatsoever with either head or legroom, thanks to the electrically adjustable foot pedals The leather seats are fairly comfortable and supportive, with many power adjustments....but clearly are not designed for sports-car cornering ( which, of course, would roll this vehicle over anyway ). The 2nd and optional 3rd-row seats ( more and more SUV buyers are demanding that 3rd-row nowadays ) are well-designed and with the easy-to-use manual flip-down levers, are simple to convert to cargo space......but they are not quite as versatile as Chrysler's ingeniously designed Stow-and-Go system, perhaps because of the compromises required under the vehicle for the 4WD hardware. There are dual front climate control systems and auxillary ones for the rear seats.....and rear-seat electronic entertainment systems are available as options.
No fancy luxury-style keyless push-button starters here.....you put the key in and start the engine the conventional way. The 5.3L VORTEC V8 fires right up with a smooth and quiet idle...and remains smooth and quiet, along with the 4-speed automatic, even under hard acceleration.
Or, at least, what passes for acceleration. The 5.3, while no slouch of a motor, is clearly overburdened by the vehicle's size, weight, box-car aerodynamics, and the weight and drag of 4WD....even the 2WD mode, with the A/C on, will keep you in the slow lane. More power, of course, would address this problem but would also probably worsen the Tahoe's fairly reasonable EPA mileage ratings. I did not sample the E85 / gasahol engine and cannot comment on its performance. The typical-GM smooth, quiet transmission has a steering-column-mounted shift lever with a tow / haul mode that keeps it out of overdrive with a load that would make the marginally-powered engine lug even more.
You are treated to a nice, smooth, quiet ride, especially by ladder-frame truck standards....noticeably better than its predecessor ( GM...you've kept one more promise here
). There is only a small trace of the typical large-SUV front-to-rear porpoising motion, and bumps and the road surface in general are well-isolated. Fortunately, there is no severe penalty for this in handling, which is responsive and well-controlled ,especially with the new rack-and-pinion steering which sharpens the steering response quite a bit from the old truck recirculating-ball system. ( One more promise kept, GM ). Of course, this is no sports car....it is high and marginally unstable even with the new steering and stability systems, and one must drive it with common sense, as with all high-center-of-gravity SUV's.One must also brake this vehicle with common sense..... ( back to the drawing board on this one, GM
). Unfortunately, while the brakes are somewhat improved over the awful ones in the last-generation GM full-size SUV's, there is clearly a lot of work left to do. Much of the same old Push-and-Pray wet-sponge effect is still there, although if you really stomp it you do get some response, unlike the old ones. Still, even with the new system, you will soon learn NOT to tailgate people....and to anticipate your braking needs in advance. One problem may or may not have been related to the brakes...it is hard to tell. The specific vehicle I drove had an electronic problem that surfaced at first with the brake pedal causing the power door locks to click open and shut every time you pressed the pedal. Then it moved on to where you would hear the click-click every time you hit a bump. Then it would happen under BOTH conditions. Then it would happen completely at random...or constantly.
It appears to be a teething problem with the vehicle's electronics. Let's just hope that it is an isolated problem and that these vehicles don't wind up with Mercedes-Benz style electronics that are in the shop more than out. So.....the verdict? GM clearly has kept some promises, like the superb Lexus-quality dash in the upper-trim models, driver-friendly steering and handling, low noise levels, easy-to-use family-friendly seats, and styling that is pleasant and attractive to look at. Other promises have not been kept......such as the continuing GM cheapness in body / paint quality, interior fit-and-finish ( apart from the dash ) and sub-standard hardware. And, of course, the inevitable teething problems that seem to affect so many domestically-designed vehicles.
Last edited by mmarshall; 04-13-06 at 06:54 AM.
04-13-06, 07:37 AM
#2
electric problems sounds very strange. Plus - I really dont get it - it doesnt have telescopic adjustment for steering sheeel, right (I read that new Escalade doesnt)? thats the thing that bugs me in cheapest cars, let alone 40k ones.
04-13-06, 07:44 AM
#3
Lexus Fanatic
Thread Starter
Originally Posted by spwolf
electric problems sounds very strange. Plus - I really dont get it - it doesnt have telescopic adjustment for steering sheeel, right (I read that new Escalade doesnt)? thats the thing that bugs me in cheapest cars, let alone 40k ones.
04-13-06, 07:53 AM
#4
Out of Warranty
Outstanding post, mmarshall! As a former owner of high-end 4WD Suburbans in both half and three-quarter ton configurations, that review, with the exception of the vastly improved dash, pretty well represents GM's SUV technology for the past 25 years. While I'm glad they recognize that SUV's are not work trucks anymore, it's sad they don't seem to have done much for the bob-and-weave suspension or the miserable brake feel.
Electrics were the bane of my existence as a Suburban owner. After several years, my mechanic, after spending the better part of a day tracing down an electrical problem discovered that NONE of the electrical connections in the cabin, including the ignition, had been properly potted - leaving them to slowly corrode and produce a whole repertoire of odd to serious effects while driving - not the least of which was setting off the alarm siren in freeway traffic.
Kudos are in order for finally replacing the old recirculating-ball steering box. The ride of the old K20 series (3/4ton 4WD) was quite good - even on the old 4 leaf spring, solid axle Sub's of the 80's, where the sheer inertia of three tons of steel seemed to damp out most body motion. Handling? Forget handling, there wasn't any – evidently this “classic” feature has been retained.
Through the '80's and '90's, the Suburban was the definitive SUV - mine, usually in fire-engine red with silver or chrome trim always attracted attention - even before the SUV craze. They were honest, hard-working, relatively reliable mounts, but they were at least a full generation behind the automotive technology of their day. It looks like GM may be trying to improve on that record.
For now, if I were to consider a full-size SUV, I’d probably go with a Crew Cab short-bed pickup – If I’m going to drive a pickup, at least I wouldn’t look like the fool that paid $6,000 to put a roof over the bed. I once had a neighbor who, admiring my Sub, purchased an identical 4-door pickup with the long bed and a manual transmission (guess the macho image ran away with him . . . ) OOPS, big mistake! Two FEET of truck stuck out of his garage and he couldn’t close the door, and the long WB and insane turning radius made it almost impossible to park at the grocery store where it required 1 ½ spaces.
Unless the new Tahoe/Suburban is offered with the typical GM discount package that brings their stickers into the range of their real value, despite the great new looks, they may have a tough sell among present SUV owners. If they are going to remain relevant, they need to reexamine the diesel option, too. If the reduction in fuel consumption on such a heavy vehicle could overcome the current pump price, they might be well advised to avoid the hybrid altogether. Hmmmm . . . then strap on a Gale Banks Big Hoss kit
Electrics were the bane of my existence as a Suburban owner. After several years, my mechanic, after spending the better part of a day tracing down an electrical problem discovered that NONE of the electrical connections in the cabin, including the ignition, had been properly potted - leaving them to slowly corrode and produce a whole repertoire of odd to serious effects while driving - not the least of which was setting off the alarm siren in freeway traffic.
Kudos are in order for finally replacing the old recirculating-ball steering box. The ride of the old K20 series (3/4ton 4WD) was quite good - even on the old 4 leaf spring, solid axle Sub's of the 80's, where the sheer inertia of three tons of steel seemed to damp out most body motion. Handling? Forget handling, there wasn't any – evidently this “classic” feature has been retained.
Through the '80's and '90's, the Suburban was the definitive SUV - mine, usually in fire-engine red with silver or chrome trim always attracted attention - even before the SUV craze. They were honest, hard-working, relatively reliable mounts, but they were at least a full generation behind the automotive technology of their day. It looks like GM may be trying to improve on that record.
For now, if I were to consider a full-size SUV, I’d probably go with a Crew Cab short-bed pickup – If I’m going to drive a pickup, at least I wouldn’t look like the fool that paid $6,000 to put a roof over the bed. I once had a neighbor who, admiring my Sub, purchased an identical 4-door pickup with the long bed and a manual transmission (guess the macho image ran away with him . . . ) OOPS, big mistake! Two FEET of truck stuck out of his garage and he couldn’t close the door, and the long WB and insane turning radius made it almost impossible to park at the grocery store where it required 1 ½ spaces.
Unless the new Tahoe/Suburban is offered with the typical GM discount package that brings their stickers into the range of their real value, despite the great new looks, they may have a tough sell among present SUV owners. If they are going to remain relevant, they need to reexamine the diesel option, too. If the reduction in fuel consumption on such a heavy vehicle could overcome the current pump price, they might be well advised to avoid the hybrid altogether.
Hmmmm . . . then strap on a Gale Banks Big Hoss kit
04-13-06, 08:05 AM
#5
Lexus Fanatic
Thread Starter
Can't comment on the longer / heavier Suburban yet, Lil ( still waiting for it at the dealerships...it is not quite out yet ) but the new Tahoe had no serious handling vices in normal driving that I could tell, and it combined a smooth ride with reasonably good handling when one remembers that this is not a Miata or an S2000. If the " bob and weave suspension " that you refer to is the classic large-SUV fore-and-aft porpoising motions, then, yes, there still is a small amount of that left...but it is not particularly uncomfortable.
However, the brakes, by my standards, still need some work, although they are at least half a step up from the previous ones.
However, the brakes, by my standards, still need some work, although they are at least half a step up from the previous ones.
Last edited by mmarshall; 04-13-06 at 08:10 AM.
04-13-06, 08:42 AM
#6
Lexus Fanatic
Thread Starter
I'll be off-line for a few days, so if you have any more questions or comments on this thread just post them and I'll answer them when I get back.
Happy Easter / Passover, everyone.
Happy Easter / Passover, everyone.
04-15-06, 08:06 AM
#7
Lexus Fanatic
Thread Starter
Back on-line today. One thing I forgot to mention is that the LT1 model I reviewed had nice, Mercedes-style turn signals on the side mirrors....a good safety feature.
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04-15-06, 10:02 PM
#8
Lexus Test Driver
Join Date: Feb 2004
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GM is getting a ton of good press lately they really don't deserve. I was at the dealer for some routine maintance today and sat in a 10kmi STS
it's a seriously lacking vehicle
it's a seriously lacking vehicle
04-20-06, 09:30 AM
#10
Lexus Champion
In my honest opinion the new 2007 Escalade is the best full size luxury SUV on the market bar-none. Extremely nice all around interior, 403hp, 6-speed auto, AWD, etc. I was blown away when I saw it at the auto show considering I considered the previous generation to be one of the most pathetic excuses for a luxury SUV on the market. They really did a great job of making the Escalade truely upscale compared to the Tahoe this time.
The Tahoe is a great improvement too and for now I think the best choice on the market. I don't care for the 4-speed auto. It was supposed to be a 6-speed auto at launch but they had supply issues with so many of the other GM vehicles moving to the new 6-speed auto at the same time. The tahoe will only get better when the 6-speed is implemented.
The Tahoe is a great improvement too and for now I think the best choice on the market. I don't care for the 4-speed auto. It was supposed to be a 6-speed auto at launch but they had supply issues with so many of the other GM vehicles moving to the new 6-speed auto at the same time. The tahoe will only get better when the 6-speed is implemented.
04-20-06, 10:02 AM
#11
Lexus Champion
IMO, the MPG is still below where it should be.
IMO, I think its too big...should've significantly reduced the dimensions and weight [what does it do that the Trailblazer can't?]
GM has to do SOMETHING better than Toyota and the rest or nobody will buy this thing.
The Hybrid version's MPG needs to be way better than the Silverado or there's no use wasting the dollars on developing it (or buying it).
IMO, I think its too big...should've significantly reduced the dimensions and weight [what does it do that the Trailblazer can't?]
GM has to do SOMETHING better than Toyota and the rest or nobody will buy this thing.
The Hybrid version's MPG needs to be way better than the Silverado or there's no use wasting the dollars on developing it (or buying it).
04-21-06, 03:56 AM
#13
Lexus Fanatic
Thread Starter
Originally Posted by Lexmex
One GM vehicle I like is the Yukon Denali. A lot of families down here like these GM mammoths for some reason.
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04-23-06, 10:16 PM
#15
Nice write up, overall I like what GM has done with this platform but I have a major problem with the fact that they scrapped the independent rear suspension in a cost cutting move, thus the seats don't fold into the floor, unforgiveable in this price class (Cadillac for sure), Navigator and Expedition have had this since 2003 as well as six speed auto in the Lincoln since 2005, if GM had offered fold into the floor seats along with the power fold second row Escalade would have total dominence over 2007 Navigator because of horrible exterior styling and carryover 300 HP vs. 403 HP.