OK.......so we buy " American ".

Can anyone, with the excessively global auto industry we have today, even DEFINE the term American vehicle any more? Almost everyone either owns everyone else, has a stake in them, or assembles vehicles in other countries, with even more diversity in source components.

And, OK......suppose we DO define the term. Can anyone actually then predict where, and in what country, the money you spend on that new vehicle will actually END UP?

Good luck, fellas. I've been watching the auto market for some 35 years now and I sure can't .

 

I should mention that being south of the border we get a lot of rebadged European versions from Chevy and Ford and these cars do sell and are great on MPG. If it weren't for U.S. crash testing and emissions (I can't believe these things wouldn't pass), they might sell well for the $$$.

 

I think this whole Buy American thing is a gray area subject. Why isn't Toyota considered an American company? They employ Americans, they pay Americans who pax taxes. The plants in America pay taxes to the federal government, and almost all the parts are American made. Soon Lexus will be making the JX in America, so Toyota IMO is an American car, which is available worldwide and soon too will be Lexus.

And I'd pick a Toyota over any GM/Ford product(yes i'm biased)

I do find it unfortunate however that GM/Ford is failing so hard because of the high cost of employee benefits(approx $1,500 more per vehicle than Toyota), but there isn't anything I can do about it.

 

Well, I think there are several nice cars being offered by GM and Ford. I just saw the new Soltice on the road... that is one really like little roadster. Can't wait for the Sky. The Vette and the new Caddys are all cars I would seriously consider for my next vehicle. Also... one of my guilty pleasures... I think the new Pontiac G6 is actually a clean nice design. The new G6 convertible is very appealing. Also thinking that the Ford Fusion or Merc Milan would be a good car for my mom. They are kinda tall with a more commanding view than other cars without going SUV. I've actually been considering some domestic cars, just waiting for reliability records to emerge for some of the newer models.

 

Well, once again we get back to my question of how you define an "American" car. That GTO you love so much is in fact a Australian Holden Monaro retooled to American safety and emissions standards and with a big Corvette 5.7L V8 stuffed in. Those Hemi Chryslers and Dodges you like have Mercedes E-Class chassis and transmissions hooked to a big Chrysler V8. The Cadillac CTS-V, once again, is a redone German Opel with a big American V8 stuffed in.

The days of pure " Detroit Iron " are LONG gone...probably never to return.

 

Fantastic point. Makes me think....I can't recall one Honda or Toyota that has parts from another brand. Can you think of one mmarshall?

 

Of course I can. I assume you are talking about today's Honda and Toyotas, but here are examples from both today and yesterday:

The mid-late 90's Honda Passport was a rebadged Isuzu Rodeo.

The Acura SLX of the same period was a rebadged Isuzu Trooper.

Toyota sold a version of the Chevrolet Cavalier in Japan under the Toyota nameplate. ( don't remember the Japanese name ).

The late-80's Toyota Corolla and Chevrolet Nova shared Toyota and GM electrical parts and even the same assembly line in Fremont, CA. Ditto for the next-generation Corolla and Geo / Chevy Prizm.


Toyotas ( and many other Japanese-nameplate cars ) used Mitsubishi alternators and sometimes Mitsubishi turbos as well.

Toyotas and many GM-designed cars today appear to use ( though I cannot verify this 100%) the same three-spoke steering wheels.

The Honda Odyssey, starting in 1999, used a GM-supplied mechanism for its power-sliding doors for several years.....but they were so troublesome that Honda gave up on them after a couple of years and designed their own mechanism instead.

 

Don't forget the Toyota Matrix / Pontiac whatever

 

The US has some decent cars:

TRUCKS

PT Cruiser
Solstice
Sky
300M
Vette
T&C

Then some awful rental car crap.

 

Yes.....the Matrix / Vibe are twins in the same manner as the earlier Corolla / Nova and Corolla / Prizm twins. Like those two earlier examples I mentioned, the Vibe and Matrix both work off of a basic Toyota design but with GM input and some GM electrical parts.

 

So, the better question is which brand has never shared parts. Here's my guesses:
BMW
Porsche(I don't count volkswagen and audi, unless we also count toyota and lexus the same way)
TVR
Morgan
Actually, BMW is the only company I'd bet hasn't shared any parts with another company. What say you?

 

I can't be positive on parts sharing, but I do remember that when BMW had their hands on Range Rover not too long some of that Rover technology was adapted to the X5. I am wrong on this?

 

The previous Range Rover engine was a BMW before they were acquired by Ford (I think!)

 

Hehe, I believe BMW has and still uses GM automatic transmissions.

 

Foreign or Domestic? How can you even tell anymore?
VERY INTERESTING article on the actual content/composition of cars available here , and how much of what goes in the cars is considered "domestic" as opposed to "foreign"..

article is lengthy, but an eye opener..... so much for true "domestics"

These lines in paritcular makes you challenge the authenticity of the reports filed by GM...

The Chevy HHR, made in Ramos Arizpe, Mexico, is sold with a window sticker mandated by U.S. law saying the vehicle has 85% "domestic" content, meaning parts from the United States or Canada.

But Bo Andersson, GM's vice president of global purchasing, said in a recent speech that 64% of the parts value in the HHR originates in Mexico, while 30% comes from the United States.

GM said the HHR's label reflects an average of its parts value with larger U.S.-made SUVs, such as the Chevrolet Trailblazer.

According to the NAFTA, Canada + US = Domestic. Since when can you include 64% Mexican parts as domestic, based on SUV averages? WTF???????

:

Link to article:

http://www.freep.com/apps/pbcs.dll/a...605070725/1014
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