Buying American
05-08-06, 08:49 PM
#31
Guest
Posts: n/a
2006 Model compositions:
Brand Model US/Can Foreign% Country
Acura RSX 0 100 Japan
Acura MDX 65 30 Japan
Acura RL 5 95 Japan
Acura TL 65 15 Japan
Acura TSX 5 95 Japan
BMW 3-Series 5 80 Germany
BMW 5-Series 5 80 Germany
BMW 7-Series 5 80 Germany
Buick LaCrosse 92
Buick Rainier 85
Buick Terrazza 75 22 Mexico
Buick Rendezvous 44 50 Mexico
Cadillac CTS 80
Cadillac STS 80
Cadillac DTS 90
Cadillac XLR 80
Cadillac Escalade 67 30 Mexico
Cadillac SRX 80
Chevrolet MonteCarlo 92
Chevrolet Impala 92
Chevrolet Corvette 80
Chevrolet Aveo 6 92 Korea
Chevrolet Malibu 80
Chevrolet Silverado 90
Chevrolet Tahoe 67 30 Mexico
Chevrolet Suburban 67 30 Mexico
Chevrolet Avalanche 67 30 Mexico
Chevrolet Colorado 85
Chevrolet Trailblazer 85
Chevrolet SSR 85
Chevrolet Express 90
Chevrolet Uplander 75 22 Mexico
Chevrolet Cobalt 75 18 Mexico
Chevrolet Equinox 50 15 China
Chrysler 300 72
Chrysler 300 SRT-8 72
Dodge Magnum 74
Dodge Challenger 74
GMC Sierra 90
GMC Yukon 67 30 Mexico
GMC Canyon 85
GMC Envoy 85
GMC Savana 90
Honda Ridgeline 75 10 Japan
Honda Civic 70 15 Japan
Honda Odyssey 70 20 Japan
Honda Accord 70 15 Japan
Honda Pilot 75 20 Japan
Honda CR-V 5 75 Japan
Honda Insight 0 100 Japan
Honda S2000 0 100 Japan
Honda Element 65 20 Japan
Infiniti G35 5 95 Japan
Infiniti M45 0 100 Japan
Infiniti Q45 5 95 Japan
Infiniti FX45 5 95 Japan
Infiniti QX56 55 27 Japan
Isuzu Ascender 85
Lexus SC430 0 100 Japan
Lexus IS300 0 100 Japan
Lexus ES330 5 95 Japan
Lexus RX330 60 40 Japan
Lexus GX470 0 100 Japan
Mitsubishi Galant 55 34 Japan
Mitsubishi Endeavor 56 33 Japan
Nissan Sentra 28 37 Mexico / 33% Japan
Nissan Altima 65 22 Japan
Nissan Maxima 60 27 Japan
Nissan 350Z 0 100 Japan
Nissan Frontier 60 26 Japan
Nissan Xterra 60 29 Japan
Nissan Pathfinder 60 25 Japan
Nissan Murano 0 100 Japan
Nissan Quest 60 21 Japan
Nissan Titan 60 22 Japan
Nissan Armada 60 23 Japan
Pontiac Grand Prix 92
Pontiac Vibe 67 27 Japan
Pontiac Solstice 80
Pontiac GTO 20 54 Australia
Pontiac G6 80
Pontiac SV6 75 22 Mexico
Saturn Ion 85
Saturn Vue 65 26 Japan
Suzuki Aerio 0 100 Japan
Suzuki Grand Vitara 0 100 Japan
Suzuki XL7 0 100 Japan
Toyota Avalon 75 25 Japan
Toyota Corolla 75 20 Japan
Toyota Matrix 70 20 Japan
Toyota Sienna 85 10 Japan
Toyota 4Runner 5 95 Japan
Toyota Highlander 5 95 Japan
Toyota Tacoma 70 20 Japan
Toyota Tundra 80 15 Japan
Toyota Sequoia 65 30 Japa
Brand Model US/Can Foreign% Country
Acura RSX 0 100 Japan
Acura MDX 65 30 Japan
Acura RL 5 95 Japan
Acura TL 65 15 Japan
Acura TSX 5 95 Japan
BMW 3-Series 5 80 Germany
BMW 5-Series 5 80 Germany
BMW 7-Series 5 80 Germany
Buick LaCrosse 92
Buick Rainier 85
Buick Terrazza 75 22 Mexico
Buick Rendezvous 44 50 Mexico
Cadillac CTS 80
Cadillac STS 80
Cadillac DTS 90
Cadillac XLR 80
Cadillac Escalade 67 30 Mexico
Cadillac SRX 80
Chevrolet MonteCarlo 92
Chevrolet Impala 92
Chevrolet Corvette 80
Chevrolet Aveo 6 92 Korea
Chevrolet Malibu 80
Chevrolet Silverado 90
Chevrolet Tahoe 67 30 Mexico
Chevrolet Suburban 67 30 Mexico
Chevrolet Avalanche 67 30 Mexico
Chevrolet Colorado 85
Chevrolet Trailblazer 85
Chevrolet SSR 85
Chevrolet Express 90
Chevrolet Uplander 75 22 Mexico
Chevrolet Cobalt 75 18 Mexico
Chevrolet Equinox 50 15 China
Chrysler 300 72
Chrysler 300 SRT-8 72
Dodge Magnum 74
Dodge Challenger 74
GMC Sierra 90
GMC Yukon 67 30 Mexico
GMC Canyon 85
GMC Envoy 85
GMC Savana 90
Honda Ridgeline 75 10 Japan
Honda Civic 70 15 Japan
Honda Odyssey 70 20 Japan
Honda Accord 70 15 Japan
Honda Pilot 75 20 Japan
Honda CR-V 5 75 Japan
Honda Insight 0 100 Japan
Honda S2000 0 100 Japan
Honda Element 65 20 Japan
Infiniti G35 5 95 Japan
Infiniti M45 0 100 Japan
Infiniti Q45 5 95 Japan
Infiniti FX45 5 95 Japan
Infiniti QX56 55 27 Japan
Isuzu Ascender 85
Lexus SC430 0 100 Japan
Lexus IS300 0 100 Japan
Lexus ES330 5 95 Japan
Lexus RX330 60 40 Japan
Lexus GX470 0 100 Japan
Mitsubishi Galant 55 34 Japan
Mitsubishi Endeavor 56 33 Japan
Nissan Sentra 28 37 Mexico / 33% Japan
Nissan Altima 65 22 Japan
Nissan Maxima 60 27 Japan
Nissan 350Z 0 100 Japan
Nissan Frontier 60 26 Japan
Nissan Xterra 60 29 Japan
Nissan Pathfinder 60 25 Japan
Nissan Murano 0 100 Japan
Nissan Quest 60 21 Japan
Nissan Titan 60 22 Japan
Nissan Armada 60 23 Japan
Pontiac Grand Prix 92
Pontiac Vibe 67 27 Japan
Pontiac Solstice 80
Pontiac GTO 20 54 Australia
Pontiac G6 80
Pontiac SV6 75 22 Mexico
Saturn Ion 85
Saturn Vue 65 26 Japan
Suzuki Aerio 0 100 Japan
Suzuki Grand Vitara 0 100 Japan
Suzuki XL7 0 100 Japan
Toyota Avalon 75 25 Japan
Toyota Corolla 75 20 Japan
Toyota Matrix 70 20 Japan
Toyota Sienna 85 10 Japan
Toyota 4Runner 5 95 Japan
Toyota Highlander 5 95 Japan
Toyota Tacoma 70 20 Japan
Toyota Tundra 80 15 Japan
Toyota Sequoia 65 30 Japa
05-08-06, 08:49 PM
#32
Guest
Posts: n/a
and finally...the complete article, for those not inclined to click the link .. t!
WASHINGTON -- After years of ignoring GM vehicles, Geraldine Bowers found herself drawn to one in February when she bought a Daytona blue Chevy HHR, lured by its looks and flexibility.
The fact it came from a Detroit automaker didn't hurt -- nor did it matter to her that the HHR was built in Mexico with a sizable share of foreign parts.
"We like to buy American," said Bowers of Auburn Hills. "I'm not unhappy that it's assembled in Mexico.... It's very hard to go into a store and find [products] totally American made."
More than ever, automakers are drawing on suppliers around the globe, shuttling parts across borders in search of lower prices and higher quality.
A Free Press analysis of federal data found that vehicles built by Detroit automakers have steadily increased their proportion of parts from outside the United States and Canada. By the same measure, vehicles built in North America by Japan's largest automakers increasingly use U.S. and Canadian parts.
Detroit automakers still build a far higher share of their vehicles in the United States than foreign automakers, and most of their models draw more than three-fourths of their parts value from U.S. or Canadian sources. But some popular Japanese models now surpass their U.S. competitors for content made in the United States or Canada, the government records show.
The statistics also illustrate the painful contraction of the U.S. auto parts industry, where 30 major suppliers, including Delphi Corp., and dozens of smaller firms have declared bankruptcy since 1999.
Meanwhile, foreign-owned suppliers with close ties to Japanese automakers have grown, mostly in the southern United States, winning new business not only with their traditional customers but with GM, Ford and Chrysler.
"In a global industry, it is hard to work with companies tied just to one particular area," said Tony Brown, Ford's senior vice president of global purchasing, in a speech last month in Detroit. "We need companies that are either global, or savvy enough to form global partnerships."
By the numbers
Under the American Automobile Labeling Act, automakers must tell consumers what percentage of a vehicle's parts by value come from either the United States or Canada. The law went into effect in 1994 thanks to the support of domestic automakers and the United Auto Workers, who wanted to boost purchases of American-made vehicles.
The Free Press analysis of the data supplied by automakers to the government found, for cars assembled in North America:
# 81% of the parts value in General Motors Corp. vehicles sold last year came from the United States or Canada, down from 87% five years ago and 91% in 1995.
# For Ford Motor Co., 82% of parts value was U.S. or Canadian-sourced, down from 87% in 2000 and 86% in 1995.
# Chrysler had the lowest total for a Detroit automaker at 76%, down from 80% five years ago and 89% 10 years ago.
Among the top three Japanese automakers:
# Toyota drew 75% of its parts value from U.S. or Canadian sources for the vehicles it made and sold in the United States last year, up from 57% in 2000 and 49% in 1995.
# At Honda, 68% of its North American vehicles' parts value was U.S. or Canadian. That was down slightly from 70% in 2000 but up from 47% in 1995.
# Nissan had the lowest total among Japan's Big Three at 57%, compared with 58% in 2000 and 42% in 1995.
However, when considering all vehicles sold in the United States last year, including those made in Japan, the share of parts value from U.S. or Canadian sources fell dramatically:
# Toyota, 49%.
# Honda, 58%.
# Nissan, 48%.
"The trends in all of our vehicles, as time goes on, will be to source more and more from here in North America," said Dennis Cuneo, Toyota's senior vice president of manufacturing in North America.
Content varies by model
Among Detroit automakers, values for U.S. or Canadian content by model ranges widely, from more than 90% to less than 30%.
GM's new Chevrolet Tahoe has 62% U.S. content, 25% from Mexico, 9% from Canada and 3% from China. The Chrysler 300C has 72% U.S. or Canadian parts value, with an engine made in Mexico. Ford has a number of models at 90%, including the F-Series pickup, but the hybrid Escape comes in at 55% thanks to Japanese-sourced components.
The Chevy HHR, made in Ramos Arizpe, Mexico, is sold with a window sticker mandated by U.S. law saying the vehicle has 85% "domestic" content, meaning parts from the United States or Canada.
But Bo Andersson, GM's vice president of global purchasing, said in a recent speech that 64% of the parts value in the HHR originates in Mexico, while 30% comes from the United States.
GM said the HHR's label reflects an average of its parts value with larger U.S.-made SUVs, such as the Chevrolet Trailblazer.
Andersson said GM now buys $9.3 billion a year in parts from Mexico, equal to 16% of GM's total North American parts bill -- making Mexico the second-largest source of GM's parts behind the United States.
While hailing GM's commitment to North American suppliers, Andersson also made clear that the company must control costs to compete.
"We are an American company, but we are also a global company," he said. "I need to buy the best part with the best quality at the best landed cost."
Japanese favor U.S. parts
Larry Jutte, senior vice president and general manager of parts and procurement for Honda North America, said the company had found that importing parts often created more headaches in quality and inventory control than savings.
"We have very, very little sourcing that we do directly from overseas," Jutte said. "That's not our drive and not our message to suppliers."
American automakers have said for years that Japanese companies still import a large portion of their parts, taking advantage of currency rates to get lower prices. Andersson noted that Toyota is the third-largest importer of shipping containers into the United States, behind Wal-Mart and Heineken. Toyota's hot-selling Prius hybrids, Scions and most Lexuses come from Japan.
Toyota's business with North American parts suppliers has grown from $5.7 billion a year a decade ago to $20 billion annually today. Cuneo said Toyota buys about $2 billion a year from Michigan parts makers.
Unlike other Japanese automakers, Toyota has also imported a scaled-down version of the partially owned supplier network it built in Japan. It has controlling stakes in Aisin Seiki and Denso Corp. and owns some smaller suppliers such as Bodine Aluminum.
That network has given Toyota a boost under a quirk in the federal labeling law that was originally designed to help Detroit automakers. Under the rules, parts that an automaker buys from a supplier that it owns or has a financial stake in count more toward its domestic content than parts from an independent company.
Denso and Aisin Seiki have also won an increasing number of contracts from other automakers, and stand to gain large swaths of the market as U.S. suppliers restructure inside and outside bankruptcy. Andersson said that of the 200 new suppliers to Cadillac, a majority are Japanese firms that have built or bought plants in Michigan -- including Denso.
While Delphi and Visteon have won some contracts with foreign automakers, the new business has not offset the decline in business from their former parents, GM and Ford.
The shrinking of Delphi and Visteon opened a door for foreign suppliers. Industry consultant Dennis DesRosiers calculates that foreign-owned suppliers with U.S. factories held 30% of the $239-billion U.S. parts market in 2005, up 10 percentage points in the last five years.
Kathleen Ligocki, the chief executive of bankrupt supplier Tower Automotive of Novi, said her compatriots in the U.S. parts industry faced many hard choices about where to put their resources.
"Domestic automobile manufacturing will profoundly restructure" in coming years "or disappear to be absorbed into successful global players," she said.
"There is simply no future in the status quo."
On average, for cars sold here, Toyota used ONLY 1 % LESS "DOMESTIC" CONTENT THAN CHRYSLER !
Luckily, the IS was assembled in JP, and imported here
For the 2005 IS model :
Lexus IS300 5 95 Japan -- only 5% USDM parts !!!
WASHINGTON -- After years of ignoring GM vehicles, Geraldine Bowers found herself drawn to one in February when she bought a Daytona blue Chevy HHR, lured by its looks and flexibility.
The fact it came from a Detroit automaker didn't hurt -- nor did it matter to her that the HHR was built in Mexico with a sizable share of foreign parts.
"We like to buy American," said Bowers of Auburn Hills. "I'm not unhappy that it's assembled in Mexico.... It's very hard to go into a store and find [products] totally American made."
More than ever, automakers are drawing on suppliers around the globe, shuttling parts across borders in search of lower prices and higher quality.
A Free Press analysis of federal data found that vehicles built by Detroit automakers have steadily increased their proportion of parts from outside the United States and Canada. By the same measure, vehicles built in North America by Japan's largest automakers increasingly use U.S. and Canadian parts.
Detroit automakers still build a far higher share of their vehicles in the United States than foreign automakers, and most of their models draw more than three-fourths of their parts value from U.S. or Canadian sources. But some popular Japanese models now surpass their U.S. competitors for content made in the United States or Canada, the government records show.
The statistics also illustrate the painful contraction of the U.S. auto parts industry, where 30 major suppliers, including Delphi Corp., and dozens of smaller firms have declared bankruptcy since 1999.
Meanwhile, foreign-owned suppliers with close ties to Japanese automakers have grown, mostly in the southern United States, winning new business not only with their traditional customers but with GM, Ford and Chrysler.
"In a global industry, it is hard to work with companies tied just to one particular area," said Tony Brown, Ford's senior vice president of global purchasing, in a speech last month in Detroit. "We need companies that are either global, or savvy enough to form global partnerships."
By the numbers
Under the American Automobile Labeling Act, automakers must tell consumers what percentage of a vehicle's parts by value come from either the United States or Canada. The law went into effect in 1994 thanks to the support of domestic automakers and the United Auto Workers, who wanted to boost purchases of American-made vehicles.
The Free Press analysis of the data supplied by automakers to the government found, for cars assembled in North America:
# 81% of the parts value in General Motors Corp. vehicles sold last year came from the United States or Canada, down from 87% five years ago and 91% in 1995.
# For Ford Motor Co., 82% of parts value was U.S. or Canadian-sourced, down from 87% in 2000 and 86% in 1995.
# Chrysler had the lowest total for a Detroit automaker at 76%, down from 80% five years ago and 89% 10 years ago.
Among the top three Japanese automakers:
# Toyota drew 75% of its parts value from U.S. or Canadian sources for the vehicles it made and sold in the United States last year, up from 57% in 2000 and 49% in 1995.
# At Honda, 68% of its North American vehicles' parts value was U.S. or Canadian. That was down slightly from 70% in 2000 but up from 47% in 1995.
# Nissan had the lowest total among Japan's Big Three at 57%, compared with 58% in 2000 and 42% in 1995.
However, when considering all vehicles sold in the United States last year, including those made in Japan, the share of parts value from U.S. or Canadian sources fell dramatically:
# Toyota, 49%.
# Honda, 58%.
# Nissan, 48%.
"The trends in all of our vehicles, as time goes on, will be to source more and more from here in North America," said Dennis Cuneo, Toyota's senior vice president of manufacturing in North America.
Content varies by model
Among Detroit automakers, values for U.S. or Canadian content by model ranges widely, from more than 90% to less than 30%.
GM's new Chevrolet Tahoe has 62% U.S. content, 25% from Mexico, 9% from Canada and 3% from China. The Chrysler 300C has 72% U.S. or Canadian parts value, with an engine made in Mexico. Ford has a number of models at 90%, including the F-Series pickup, but the hybrid Escape comes in at 55% thanks to Japanese-sourced components.
The Chevy HHR, made in Ramos Arizpe, Mexico, is sold with a window sticker mandated by U.S. law saying the vehicle has 85% "domestic" content, meaning parts from the United States or Canada.
But Bo Andersson, GM's vice president of global purchasing, said in a recent speech that 64% of the parts value in the HHR originates in Mexico, while 30% comes from the United States.
GM said the HHR's label reflects an average of its parts value with larger U.S.-made SUVs, such as the Chevrolet Trailblazer.
Andersson said GM now buys $9.3 billion a year in parts from Mexico, equal to 16% of GM's total North American parts bill -- making Mexico the second-largest source of GM's parts behind the United States.
While hailing GM's commitment to North American suppliers, Andersson also made clear that the company must control costs to compete.
"We are an American company, but we are also a global company," he said. "I need to buy the best part with the best quality at the best landed cost."
Japanese favor U.S. parts
Larry Jutte, senior vice president and general manager of parts and procurement for Honda North America, said the company had found that importing parts often created more headaches in quality and inventory control than savings.
"We have very, very little sourcing that we do directly from overseas," Jutte said. "That's not our drive and not our message to suppliers."
American automakers have said for years that Japanese companies still import a large portion of their parts, taking advantage of currency rates to get lower prices. Andersson noted that Toyota is the third-largest importer of shipping containers into the United States, behind Wal-Mart and Heineken. Toyota's hot-selling Prius hybrids, Scions and most Lexuses come from Japan.
Toyota's business with North American parts suppliers has grown from $5.7 billion a year a decade ago to $20 billion annually today. Cuneo said Toyota buys about $2 billion a year from Michigan parts makers.
Unlike other Japanese automakers, Toyota has also imported a scaled-down version of the partially owned supplier network it built in Japan. It has controlling stakes in Aisin Seiki and Denso Corp. and owns some smaller suppliers such as Bodine Aluminum.
That network has given Toyota a boost under a quirk in the federal labeling law that was originally designed to help Detroit automakers. Under the rules, parts that an automaker buys from a supplier that it owns or has a financial stake in count more toward its domestic content than parts from an independent company.
Denso and Aisin Seiki have also won an increasing number of contracts from other automakers, and stand to gain large swaths of the market as U.S. suppliers restructure inside and outside bankruptcy. Andersson said that of the 200 new suppliers to Cadillac, a majority are Japanese firms that have built or bought plants in Michigan -- including Denso.
While Delphi and Visteon have won some contracts with foreign automakers, the new business has not offset the decline in business from their former parents, GM and Ford.
The shrinking of Delphi and Visteon opened a door for foreign suppliers. Industry consultant Dennis DesRosiers calculates that foreign-owned suppliers with U.S. factories held 30% of the $239-billion U.S. parts market in 2005, up 10 percentage points in the last five years.
Kathleen Ligocki, the chief executive of bankrupt supplier Tower Automotive of Novi, said her compatriots in the U.S. parts industry faced many hard choices about where to put their resources.
"Domestic automobile manufacturing will profoundly restructure" in coming years "or disappear to be absorbed into successful global players," she said.
"There is simply no future in the status quo."
On average, for cars sold here, Toyota used ONLY 1 % LESS "DOMESTIC" CONTENT THAN CHRYSLER !
Luckily, the IS was assembled in JP, and imported here
For the 2005 IS model :
Lexus IS300 5 95 Japan -- only 5% USDM parts !!!
05-08-06, 08:58 PM
#33
Lexus Champion
My mom's Sienna has a lot of US made parts in it, but I was able to find some small stuff like the rubber body plugs, steering wheel airbag, and some engine control stuff was made in Japan. A lot of other stuff was made in the US, but by Japanese controlled companies. Denso has a HUGE presence in Michigan, while Koito owns NAL, and Asahi Glass is making glass with PPG.
05-08-06, 08:58 PM
#34
Lexus Fanatic
iTrader: (20)
OK, as someone who has gone from 2 Lexus to 2 Fords 
in a couple of years, lemme give my two cents. 
In terms of straight reliability (i.e., does the vehicle start and run every time), I really think there's little to choose among ANY of the brands available today. We've all heard stories of lemons from EVERY manufacturer. And many of us tend to have blinders about the brands we own.
But one thing that generally separates the Japanese designed vehicles from Ford, GM and Chrysler (yes I know Chrysler is part of Daimler, but there's still so much Detroit baggage my point still stands) is ATTENTION TO DETAIL. It's the little things. And often a big quantity of little things that end up making us reject vehicles from the big 3. Japanese designed and/or built cars usually have few 'ugly bits' showing, or have pieces of trim or carpet that can get easily dislodged from their normal positions. They generally use plastics that feel and look and even smell nice. Japanese cars have thousands of 'clips', glue, staples, straps, padding, etc., to make sure things stay where they're supposed to. They also have lots of plastic trim to hide wires, cables, hinges, braces, springs, and so on.
It's this LACK of attention to detail where I find either sloppy design on the part of the 'big 3' or they wrung TOO much cost out of a product figuring "oh the consumer won't care". Well, many DO care. If you rub enough corners off a square you end up with a circle. Someone looks at it and says, no, bub, that ain't no square.
Back to having gone from 2 Lexus to 2 Fords. The first switch was from my wife's '99 RX300 to an '04 F-150 (new style). We needed a big truck to pull a goose neck horse trailer. The Tundra was the closest Toyota possibility but it just wasn't up to the task (towing capacity).
The RX300 had become a little noisier in later years, trim on the rear hatch fell down and I (nor the dealer) could never get it to stay up. The "Goodyear Integrity" tires that Lexus delivered on the vehicle were total cheap crap. We replaced them later with Michelins at our expense and OH what a difference. Other than these things though the RX was trouble free and a pleasure to own. The F-150 was new in '04 but I'd read a lot about the changes. Massive increase in rigidity and major strides to make the truck cabin quieter and upgrade the interior. So we went to look and waddya know, I was impressed! It was and still IS quiet (quieter than our RX was at the end anyway), it has lots of hard plastic inside though, but trucks get abused so Ford puts hard wearing plastic in there for a reason. The leather is not buttery soft like a Lexus, but then I've gotten used to that too - it's still very comfortable. An early drivetrain hesitation when towing an empty trailer made us take it to the dealer and they replaced the entire rear differential without question for free, and the truck has been completely trouble free since then. It's really very solid.
The other switch was more drastic - going from my modified 2000 GS400 to a 2006 Ford Explorer Limited. In the early days with my GS (hardly new on the market by then, it was in it's 3rd year) - I had moonroof screen clicking that took several trips to the dealer to fix, and early squeaks and creaks the dealer fixed, and the stock rotors neede turning to avoid wobble, but that was about it. So a great vehicle although not without several minor flaws.
Anyway I sold the GS because my lifestyle has changed and I no longer wanted a sports sedan and wanted something easier to load stuff into, sit up higher like I missed from the RX300, but I wanted lots of front leg room (being 6'3" with long legs). I checked out many vehicles but I'd also decided I didn't want a Lexus, as the RX and GX didn't quite do it for me (shapes), and the LX was out of my budget.
Again I read some great things about the redesigned '06 Explorer - they were doing the same things they'd done on the F-150 - a lot quieter, a LOT stiffer chassis/body, better interior, etc. They'd also brought out a brand new navigation system (important to me) co-designed with Pioneer. So I went to look and was again quite surprised. I've only had this thing for about 500 miles so far but it's great. Not a single creak, squeak, rattle from anywhere. New 6 speed auto and V8 is very smooth and powerful, and the brakes are incredibly nice in feel and responsiveness. The interior isn't as aesthetically nice as a Lexus though and there's a couple of attention to detail issues like I mentioned earlier that I'm not wild about. For example with the front seat moved far back, the bare metal rails are exposed in front which is ugly. Why they couldn't afford two plastic caps to make it look nice is beyond me. The seat controls on the side are too close to the door to really use while the door is closed! The vehicle does have features not found on any Lexus though. I LOVE the keypad entry on the door. While Lexus 'start' button and fob which unlocks doors as you get close is nice, what I like is being able to leave the keys (hidden) in the car. It's one less thing to carry in my pocket. And if I'm outside my home for example and wanted to open the garage I can open either Ford without a key and use the garage opener. It also has motorized adjustable pedals (with memory settings) which are great if you have tall and short drivers! It doesn't have a telescoping steering wheel which I consider bad, but the dealer says with the adjustable pedals you don't need it, which is debatable.
I see major progress from Ford in the last couple of years and some great new things coming (new V6 this fall, new EDGE CUV to name two). GM is struggling more IMO but there are bright spots like Solstice and like T0ked said, the Pontiac G6 is a REALLY ELEGANT design from all angles in 2 or 4 doors.
My in-laws have had Cadillacs (traded every 3 years for a new one) with no significant problems at all (and usually NO problems at all).
But Japanese car companies like Toyota and Honda are FANATICAL about the details. But they have weak points too. Having driven a couple of Hondas recently and having owned 1 and 2 Acuras in the past, I can say that Honda still believes more in making engines/drivetrains quiet to get a vehicle quiet than in adding sound proofing. The road noise in a Honda Pilot is completely unacceptable to me. Scions use 4 speed autos (gag).
Nissan has been slowly ruined by it's Renault influence (the Altima/Maxima are awful) and over-zealous cost cutting. Many of their vehicles are noisy and feel cheap inside.
***********************
My point from all this is anyone looking for a vehicle is making a mistake if they don't at least LOOK at Ford/GM/Chrysler products. Yes, some don't deserve to be compared along side Japanese brand counterparts, but some do, or don't have any counterparts!
in a couple of years, lemme give my two cents. In terms of straight reliability (i.e., does the vehicle start and run every time), I really think there's little to choose among ANY of the brands available today. We've all heard stories of lemons from EVERY manufacturer. And many of us tend to have blinders about the brands we own.
But one thing that generally separates the Japanese designed vehicles from Ford, GM and Chrysler (yes I know Chrysler is part of Daimler, but there's still so much Detroit baggage my point still stands) is ATTENTION TO DETAIL. It's the little things. And often a big quantity of little things that end up making us reject vehicles from the big 3. Japanese designed and/or built cars usually have few 'ugly bits' showing, or have pieces of trim or carpet that can get easily dislodged from their normal positions. They generally use plastics that feel and look and even smell nice. Japanese cars have thousands of 'clips', glue, staples, straps, padding, etc., to make sure things stay where they're supposed to. They also have lots of plastic trim to hide wires, cables, hinges, braces, springs, and so on.
It's this LACK of attention to detail where I find either sloppy design on the part of the 'big 3' or they wrung TOO much cost out of a product figuring "oh the consumer won't care". Well, many DO care. If you rub enough corners off a square you end up with a circle. Someone looks at it and says, no, bub, that ain't no square.
Back to having gone from 2 Lexus to 2 Fords. The first switch was from my wife's '99 RX300 to an '04 F-150 (new style). We needed a big truck to pull a goose neck horse trailer. The Tundra was the closest Toyota possibility but it just wasn't up to the task (towing capacity).
The RX300 had become a little noisier in later years, trim on the rear hatch fell down and I (nor the dealer) could never get it to stay up. The "Goodyear Integrity" tires that Lexus delivered on the vehicle were total cheap crap. We replaced them later with Michelins at our expense and OH what a difference. Other than these things though the RX was trouble free and a pleasure to own. The F-150 was new in '04 but I'd read a lot about the changes. Massive increase in rigidity and major strides to make the truck cabin quieter and upgrade the interior. So we went to look and waddya know, I was impressed! It was and still IS quiet (quieter than our RX was at the end anyway), it has lots of hard plastic inside though, but trucks get abused so Ford puts hard wearing plastic in there for a reason. The leather is not buttery soft like a Lexus, but then I've gotten used to that too - it's still very comfortable. An early drivetrain hesitation when towing an empty trailer made us take it to the dealer and they replaced the entire rear differential without question for free, and the truck has been completely trouble free since then. It's really very solid.
The other switch was more drastic - going from my modified 2000 GS400 to a 2006 Ford Explorer Limited. In the early days with my GS (hardly new on the market by then, it was in it's 3rd year) - I had moonroof screen clicking that took several trips to the dealer to fix, and early squeaks and creaks the dealer fixed, and the stock rotors neede turning to avoid wobble, but that was about it. So a great vehicle although not without several minor flaws.
Anyway I sold the GS because my lifestyle has changed and I no longer wanted a sports sedan and wanted something easier to load stuff into, sit up higher like I missed from the RX300, but I wanted lots of front leg room (being 6'3" with long legs). I checked out many vehicles but I'd also decided I didn't want a Lexus, as the RX and GX didn't quite do it for me (shapes), and the LX was out of my budget.
Again I read some great things about the redesigned '06 Explorer - they were doing the same things they'd done on the F-150 - a lot quieter, a LOT stiffer chassis/body, better interior, etc. They'd also brought out a brand new navigation system (important to me) co-designed with Pioneer. So I went to look and was again quite surprised. I've only had this thing for about 500 miles so far but it's great. Not a single creak, squeak, rattle from anywhere. New 6 speed auto and V8 is very smooth and powerful, and the brakes are incredibly nice in feel and responsiveness. The interior isn't as aesthetically nice as a Lexus though and there's a couple of attention to detail issues like I mentioned earlier that I'm not wild about. For example with the front seat moved far back, the bare metal rails are exposed in front which is ugly. Why they couldn't afford two plastic caps to make it look nice is beyond me. The seat controls on the side are too close to the door to really use while the door is closed! The vehicle does have features not found on any Lexus though. I LOVE the keypad entry on the door. While Lexus 'start' button and fob which unlocks doors as you get close is nice, what I like is being able to leave the keys (hidden) in the car. It's one less thing to carry in my pocket. And if I'm outside my home for example and wanted to open the garage I can open either Ford without a key and use the garage opener. It also has motorized adjustable pedals (with memory settings) which are great if you have tall and short drivers! It doesn't have a telescoping steering wheel which I consider bad, but the dealer says with the adjustable pedals you don't need it, which is debatable.
I see major progress from Ford in the last couple of years and some great new things coming (new V6 this fall, new EDGE CUV to name two). GM is struggling more IMO but there are bright spots like Solstice and like T0ked said, the Pontiac G6 is a REALLY ELEGANT design from all angles in 2 or 4 doors.
My in-laws have had Cadillacs (traded every 3 years for a new one) with no significant problems at all (and usually NO problems at all).
But Japanese car companies like Toyota and Honda are FANATICAL about the details. But they have weak points too. Having driven a couple of Hondas recently and having owned 1 and 2 Acuras in the past, I can say that Honda still believes more in making engines/drivetrains quiet to get a vehicle quiet than in adding sound proofing. The road noise in a Honda Pilot is completely unacceptable to me. Scions use 4 speed autos (gag).
Nissan has been slowly ruined by it's Renault influence (the Altima/Maxima are awful) and over-zealous cost cutting. Many of their vehicles are noisy and feel cheap inside.
***********************
My point from all this is anyone looking for a vehicle is making a mistake if they don't at least LOOK at Ford/GM/Chrysler products. Yes, some don't deserve to be compared along side Japanese brand counterparts, but some do, or don't have any counterparts!
05-08-06, 10:29 PM
#35
Speaks French in Russian
Well isnt this just a great topic. 
But what I am not sure about is what if GM files for Chapter 11 Bankruptcy?? Do people really believe that the economy will slow to a crawl?? A lost job is never good for the economy, but IMO I think many people are blowing it out of proportion. We will never know for sure.
Over the years I really stopped classifying certain Auto Manufacturers with there country of origin. Companies like Ford, GM, and Toyota to me are International Companies. The reason I say this is because the Big 3 happen to have there headquarters here, but if they are doing extremely well in say the Chinese market(which they are), a great majority of that invested money won't be going back to the headquarters in Detroit. That money you spent on a nice GM product will be reinvested in the Chinese market. So would I really be buying for the good of the American economy??
Globalization baby. Gotta love it.
Lastly, in my opinion car manufacturers should be treated no different than clothing companies, electronics or any other everyday product you buy(as stated earlier). Its amazing how the auto industry takes a lot flack.
Anyway, my parents NEVER bought American(well ever since I was born). I was raised on Toyota vehicles practically my entire life. The reason was always because other manufacturers did not compete quality wise. And at the time, they didnt. My brother when bought his first car which was a 92 Ford Taurus was the BIGGEST heap of junk I have ever seen.i could right a novel on this car. I couldnt even comprehend the amount of problems that car had. I had no idea it was possible for a car company to produce such low quality cars. After that experience I couldnt justify purchasing a domestic. But today, Ford products are better. I always liked there trucks as they seem to last a pretty long time, but there cars still leave a bad taste in my mouth. GM never had any sedan that appealed to me as IMO they are all cheaply made(yes even the new ones that ppl say have improved 10-fold), and I just cant justify spending my money on any of there products except a Corvette. But new cars such as the ones mentioned earlier seem nice.
But what I am not sure about is what if GM files for Chapter 11 Bankruptcy?? Do people really believe that the economy will slow to a crawl?? A lost job is never good for the economy, but IMO I think many people are blowing it out of proportion. We will never know for sure.
Over the years I really stopped classifying certain Auto Manufacturers with there country of origin. Companies like Ford, GM, and Toyota to me are International Companies. The reason I say this is because the Big 3 happen to have there headquarters here, but if they are doing extremely well in say the Chinese market(which they are), a great majority of that invested money won't be going back to the headquarters in Detroit. That money you spent on a nice GM product will be reinvested in the Chinese market. So would I really be buying for the good of the American economy??
Globalization baby. Gotta love it.
Lastly, in my opinion car manufacturers should be treated no different than clothing companies, electronics or any other everyday product you buy(as stated earlier). Its amazing how the auto industry takes a lot flack.
Anyway, my parents NEVER bought American(well ever since I was born). I was raised on Toyota vehicles practically my entire life. The reason was always because other manufacturers did not compete quality wise. And at the time, they didnt. My brother when bought his first car which was a 92 Ford Taurus was the BIGGEST heap of junk I have ever seen.i could right a novel on this car. I couldnt even comprehend the amount of problems that car had. I had no idea it was possible for a car company to produce such low quality cars. After that experience I couldnt justify purchasing a domestic. But today, Ford products are better. I always liked there trucks as they seem to last a pretty long time, but there cars still leave a bad taste in my mouth. GM never had any sedan that appealed to me as IMO they are all cheaply made(yes even the new ones that ppl say have improved 10-fold), and I just cant justify spending my money on any of there products except a Corvette. But new cars such as the ones mentioned earlier seem nice.
05-09-06, 06:29 AM
#37
Lexus Fanatic
iTrader: (20)
Originally Posted by DASHOCKER
The only true hardcore American cars are the Corvette and Mustang. Made in Bowling Green Kentucky (Vette) and Dearborn Michigan (Stang) repectfully.
05-09-06, 12:40 PM
#39
Lexus Fanatic
Originally Posted by DASHOCKER
The only true hardcore American cars are the Corvette and Mustang. Made in Bowling Green Kentucky (Vette) and Dearborn Michigan (Stang) repectfully.
So I repeat my earlier statement.....for a reason. The days of true " Detroit Iron " are long gone.
05-09-06, 06:54 PM
#40
Lexus Fanatic
iTrader: (20)
It's not just a question of 'foreign content' though mmarshall, I think it's more a question of design philosophy and culture behind design.
The Lexus designs (particularly the new L-Finesse, whatever it means) have a certain conservative, classy, stylish/curvy philosophy no matter where they're made or parts sourced from. A Dodge Viper has quite another no matter where the parts come from.
The Lexus designs (particularly the new L-Finesse, whatever it means) have a certain conservative, classy, stylish/curvy philosophy no matter where they're made or parts sourced from. A Dodge Viper has quite another no matter where the parts come from.
05-10-06, 04:02 PM
#41
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Not Me!!
As most middle class families, we all grew up hearing you have to buy American. Well let me tell you all. I have bought my last American car (05 Chrysler). We bust our @SS to own a nice vehicle and return we get an over priced piece of junk, poor service, and poor resale value. This is all coming from someone that replaces his vehicles every 2 years and up until my latest purchase, a 06 ES I will never buy American again. If fact, I am so happy with my Lexus and the service that I receive, I can't even imagine driving anything else. If I weren’t so upside down on the Chrysler, I would actually dump it for another Toyota. GM/FORD/CHRYSLER, they're all about mass production and making a quick dollar, not quality...Just my 2 cents....
05-10-06, 07:48 PM
#42
Lexus Fanatic
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Well I just visited my mother-in-law and hadn't ever seen her '04 Cadillac CTS (v6). I decided to check the car out for her to make sure it's running ok. Lemme tell ya, besides the black upper level of the dash which is kinda wierd with the light interior, this car is GREAT. Acceleration? Surprisingly strong. Handling? Good. Steering? Better than any Lexus. Brakes? Awesome. Smoothness and quiet? Equal of a Lexus ES. Anyway, I was very pleasantly surprised.
The horror stories we've heard on this thread so far have been a Taurus from like forever ago, and an 05 Chrysler, which doesn't surprise me (I think Chrysler has THE WORST quality).
But again, while Lexus' are smooth and wonderful, they're not cheap and you make a mistake if you don't at least go look at Ford/GM brands/models as well as brands like VW, Audi, BMW, MB although the last two are incredibly expensive.
The horror stories we've heard on this thread so far have been a Taurus from like forever ago, and an 05 Chrysler, which doesn't surprise me (I think Chrysler has THE WORST quality).
But again, while Lexus' are smooth and wonderful, they're not cheap and you make a mistake if you don't at least go look at Ford/GM brands/models as well as brands like VW, Audi, BMW, MB although the last two are incredibly expensive.
05-11-06, 03:11 PM
#43
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Link to Interesting article along the lines of this topic:
http://www.freep.com/apps/pbcs.dll/a...05070758/1002/
TOM WALSH: With quality of U.S. vehicles up, trust can follow
May 7, 2006
FREE PRESS COLUMNIST
Why buy an American car or truck? Or why not?
These are questions of some import in the trenches of Detroit, even if, as my colleague Justin Hyde reports on Page 1A today, the lines differentiating "American" from "foreign" cars in this increasingly globalized industry are blurrier than ever.
One need not paint vehicle choice as one of the great moral issues of our time to explore how Detroit's auto companies, especially General Motors Corp. and Ford Motor Co., might stop the relentless decline of their U.S. market share.
Let's look at the market through one American family, the one I know best. My own. We are not hard-core, buy-American consumers; we don't inspect country-of-origin labels on every purchase.
That said, I do believe it's important -- for the Michigan economy overall, for my own employer and lots of my friends and neighbors and their employers -- that GM, Ford and DaimlerChrysler AG's Chrysler Group survive and prosper.
All four of the vehicles in use by my immediate family are brands from those companies: a 2006 sedan for me, a 2003 SUV for my wife, a 1996 sedan with 178,000 miles on the odometer and a chunk of wood wedging the left headlamp in place for my 22-year-old son and a 2000 sedan with 140,000 miles for my 20-year-old daughter.
Most, though not all, of our vehicles over the years have been Detroit brands: Chevrolet, Plymouth, Dodge, Pontiac, Ford, Jeep and Eagle.
My youthful detours were a Fiat econobox in 1973 and a Triumph Spitfire convertible a few years later.
When I look back on why we purchased the vehicles we did -- and what we learned from those ownership experiences -- a couple of things stand out:
Price matters. Like many Detroit families, ours qualifies for an employee-price discount at a domestic auto company, the one where my late father-in-law worked decades ago. Most of our vehicles during the last 25 years were bought or leased to take advantage of the haggle-free price.
In recent years, as attractive rebate and low-cost loan deals proliferated across all auto brands, I jumped to another domestic brand for my sedans, in part because the discounts were as good or better than employee plans.
Hassle-free matters even more. When I moved to another brand for my last two cars, I started having them serviced at a Detroit-area dealership where a friend and former neighbor is the service manager. What a revelation!
For a guy who is mechanically impaired -- that would be me -- having a service manager one can completely trust for a fair price and the straight scoop on what the car needs and doesn't need, a guy who offers me his own car to drive while mine is in the shop, saying "We'll swap cars at home later" ... I can't begin to describe how fabulous that is.
Quality is part of the hassle-free equation. While we did own a few clunkers years ago, I must say that the functionality of the cars our kids are driving, with way over 100,000 miles on each odometer, has convinced me that overall quality and reliability of most major brands has improved dramatically and that the difference between brands is small.
In the end, I think Detroit's auto companies sometimes overthink their challenges. They agonize over the residual values on their leases, they ponder how to shrink the gap between sticker prices and transaction prices, or whether Toyota is winning the spin game to project a greener environmental image.
What they need most is to restore trust among the American people. Trust that their cars will be fairly priced, built to last and that customers will be served promptly and lavished with kindness whenever a problem arises.
For customers already lost, the trick for Detroit is to keep hammering the message of improved quality and durability while also offering a dash of spice to consider switching from the reliable Honda or Toyota sitting in the garage.
Ford's new Bold Moves advertising thrust has the right spirit, as did Chrysler's daring design of the 300C. The new Pontiac Solstice and upcoming head-turners from Saturn are signs that GM has some excitement in the product pipeline.
Someday we'll forgive Detroit's automakers for making lousy cars for awhile, but only if GM, Ford, Chrysler and their dealers deliver on the trust issues.
Sure, as a driver and a car buyer, I want good looks. I want fun-to-drive. I want value. I want safety features.
But mostly I want to trust my car and the promises behind it. I want that hassle-free feeling.
Contact TOM WALSH at 313-223-4430 or twalsh@freepress.com.
http://www.freep.com/apps/pbcs.dll/a...05070758/1002/
TOM WALSH: With quality of U.S. vehicles up, trust can follow
May 7, 2006
FREE PRESS COLUMNIST
Why buy an American car or truck? Or why not?
These are questions of some import in the trenches of Detroit, even if, as my colleague Justin Hyde reports on Page 1A today, the lines differentiating "American" from "foreign" cars in this increasingly globalized industry are blurrier than ever.
One need not paint vehicle choice as one of the great moral issues of our time to explore how Detroit's auto companies, especially General Motors Corp. and Ford Motor Co., might stop the relentless decline of their U.S. market share.
Let's look at the market through one American family, the one I know best. My own. We are not hard-core, buy-American consumers; we don't inspect country-of-origin labels on every purchase.
That said, I do believe it's important -- for the Michigan economy overall, for my own employer and lots of my friends and neighbors and their employers -- that GM, Ford and DaimlerChrysler AG's Chrysler Group survive and prosper.
All four of the vehicles in use by my immediate family are brands from those companies: a 2006 sedan for me, a 2003 SUV for my wife, a 1996 sedan with 178,000 miles on the odometer and a chunk of wood wedging the left headlamp in place for my 22-year-old son and a 2000 sedan with 140,000 miles for my 20-year-old daughter.
Most, though not all, of our vehicles over the years have been Detroit brands: Chevrolet, Plymouth, Dodge, Pontiac, Ford, Jeep and Eagle.
My youthful detours were a Fiat econobox in 1973 and a Triumph Spitfire convertible a few years later.
When I look back on why we purchased the vehicles we did -- and what we learned from those ownership experiences -- a couple of things stand out:
Price matters. Like many Detroit families, ours qualifies for an employee-price discount at a domestic auto company, the one where my late father-in-law worked decades ago. Most of our vehicles during the last 25 years were bought or leased to take advantage of the haggle-free price.
In recent years, as attractive rebate and low-cost loan deals proliferated across all auto brands, I jumped to another domestic brand for my sedans, in part because the discounts were as good or better than employee plans.
Hassle-free matters even more. When I moved to another brand for my last two cars, I started having them serviced at a Detroit-area dealership where a friend and former neighbor is the service manager. What a revelation!
For a guy who is mechanically impaired -- that would be me -- having a service manager one can completely trust for a fair price and the straight scoop on what the car needs and doesn't need, a guy who offers me his own car to drive while mine is in the shop, saying "We'll swap cars at home later" ... I can't begin to describe how fabulous that is.
Quality is part of the hassle-free equation. While we did own a few clunkers years ago, I must say that the functionality of the cars our kids are driving, with way over 100,000 miles on each odometer, has convinced me that overall quality and reliability of most major brands has improved dramatically and that the difference between brands is small.
In the end, I think Detroit's auto companies sometimes overthink their challenges. They agonize over the residual values on their leases, they ponder how to shrink the gap between sticker prices and transaction prices, or whether Toyota is winning the spin game to project a greener environmental image.
What they need most is to restore trust among the American people. Trust that their cars will be fairly priced, built to last and that customers will be served promptly and lavished with kindness whenever a problem arises.
For customers already lost, the trick for Detroit is to keep hammering the message of improved quality and durability while also offering a dash of spice to consider switching from the reliable Honda or Toyota sitting in the garage.
Ford's new Bold Moves advertising thrust has the right spirit, as did Chrysler's daring design of the 300C. The new Pontiac Solstice and upcoming head-turners from Saturn are signs that GM has some excitement in the product pipeline.
Someday we'll forgive Detroit's automakers for making lousy cars for awhile, but only if GM, Ford, Chrysler and their dealers deliver on the trust issues.
Sure, as a driver and a car buyer, I want good looks. I want fun-to-drive. I want value. I want safety features.
But mostly I want to trust my car and the promises behind it. I want that hassle-free feeling.
Contact TOM WALSH at 313-223-4430 or twalsh@freepress.com.
05-14-06, 01:17 AM
#44
Driver School Candidate
Join Date: May 2006
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Not Me!! V2
We can compare CTS to LS (Lincoln) to ES to what ever. The true fact is that the Big 3 will never make a quality automobile that will last as long or longer than the Japanese. Like I said before, for a young adult I have already owned more cars than anyone I know my age and the quality and worksmanship that I have witness not only in my ES but other Japanese cars you will never find in an american automobile. What converted me from American to Japanese was a stock 99 LS with over 250,000 miles on it "What a ride". Again, the quality just isn't there or is the resale value. From Kelly Blue Book's website: for a base model 04 CTS @ 35000 miles Suggested Retail Price $24,500 and base model 04 ES @ 35000 miles Suggested Retail Price $27,800. Do I have to say more?
Last edited by lews330; 05-14-06 at 01:24 AM.
05-14-06, 01:35 AM
#45
Originally Posted by lexguynj
Sick - your family sounds just like mine. Bought American cars all the time in the 70's & Mid 80s, got tired of the problems and started buying Japanese for the improved reliability and never looked back since.
I too would say the Corvette is a great deal and the Cadillac line is strong and appealing.
You are correct, we can not feel bad about a company that doesn't perform, we just don't consider them during our purchasing process. This is unfortunate but true.
As Americans we should all hope that GM & FORD rebound and succeed, so Americans can keep their jobs at these organizations (both blue and white collar) and the American economy can continue to grow. Myself and the other members in this forum are fortunate enough to drive luxury vehicles, but it's also in our best interest that we live in the time of the good times where more people are happy and not resentful of this increasing gap between the rich and poor.
I too would say the Corvette is a great deal and the Cadillac line is strong and appealing.
You are correct, we can not feel bad about a company that doesn't perform, we just don't consider them during our purchasing process. This is unfortunate but true.
As Americans we should all hope that GM & FORD rebound and succeed, so Americans can keep their jobs at these organizations (both blue and white collar) and the American economy can continue to grow. Myself and the other members in this forum are fortunate enough to drive luxury vehicles, but it's also in our best interest that we live in the time of the good times where more people are happy and not resentful of this increasing gap between the rich and poor.
I fail to see "increasing the gap between the rich and the poor" from merely looking at how cars are selling. Where did this post come from? First we get a guy asking where he can import a S15 from and now we have a random thread about how we should "try" to buy American because its patriotic and somehow helps out our economy. When in reality it makes NO DIFFERENCE.
Maybe I'm missing it, I dunno. Just struck a raw nerve.