doug_999

Speaking of which, California allows hybrids to use the HOV lane - meaning that instead of being in bumper to bumper traffic and getting GREAT mileage via their electric motor, they are cruising along with the rest of us getting basically the same mileage. I just don't understand that state sometimes.

Ok, sorry, I know it was completely off topic, but it irks me

CK6Speed

iTrader: (1)

This is turning into a majority moderators discussion Maybe everyone else is being extra careful after Dave's waning?

Anyway, I said it before in the closed topic that Lexus appeals to different people than BMW does. BMW still makes a better "Sports Sedan". Lexus may make the better "Luxury Sedan". BMW realizes that the majority of the buyers in this segment want a certain thing and they deliver it. Lexus in a way is doing it the Acura way and trying to create a segment that they think people would love and buy. It works for them and those nitch market people to follow that same idea. For the rest, they look elsewhere.

I also mentioned in the other topic that Lexus should either stick to what they do best, or if they want into the this segment market jump in with two feet. They have enough sedans in the line up to offer everything for everyone. If you want the ultra luxury get the LS. If you want the Sports Sedan get the GS, but make that GS a real Sports Sedan competitor. That means better steering, better steering feel and driving feel. The performance is there, but the car just doesn't feel like a true Sports Sedan. yet.

INHOCJP

Ok, being a So. Cal. resident, this is reason enough to get a hybrid

DASHOCKER

iTrader: (2)

I would take the 550 with the sport package over the GS450 or any 3rd gen GS. The 550I is not too far behind the the mighty M5 in performance. BMW has once again set the bar for performance sedans

LexFather

1. I think Sam Matani is a tool, I hate all his reviews.

2. Lexus should be shot in the head for sending a GS 450h WITHOUT the )(#($) )active stabilize bars. I think this technology is damn near AS IMPORTANT as the hybrid tech, as for those that have driven the GS with those bars, its a TOTALLY different beast.
Lexus did the same DUMBASS crap sending a NON SPORT 17" rim IS 350 against its competiton.
Lexus has done some TRULY PUZZLING CRAP in comparisons, in Car and Driver they have BOTH sent a GS 430 with 16" rims AND a IS 300 with 16" rims in comparisons.

WHO THE #)_$()# ) IS IN CHARGE OF SENDING THE PRESS CARS TO THE MAGS!?!?!?

Lexus has NO ONE to blame but THEMSELVES not sending a loaded GS 450h.

3. We are used to the usual BMW ball licking and oral sex given to them in mags, so I am not surprised by some of the just biased comments. HOWEVER, this does NOT take away from the fact, the 550 is STILL THE sports sedan to have before u go AMG/M etc. Its a GREAT sports sedan, and KUDOS to BMW for being STUBBORN and offering a TRUE MANUAL.

4. If you look at acceleration, both are neck and neck, look at speeds over 100mph, basically who ever gets the better start will win. Amazing these are luxury cars!!

5. How the HELL can the BMW be an advanced engine with a GAS GUZZLER TAX?!?! Hogwash. Its a great engine but nowhere near the technological masterpiece of the Lexus. You got to be kidding me.

6. Any mention of the 2k tax credit for buying the GS???

7. While R&T is driving the snot outta both cars, 99% will be driven to work and to the baseball game and to a nice restaurant, so its moot most of the time. Both are PERFECT to live with one way or the other. The BMW will have more issues but will be more entertaining, the Lexus less issues and still boring most times.

Bottom line
1. BMW is the ONLY LUXURY car maker to OFFER A TRUE MANUAL in a sports luxury sedan over 50k
2. Lexus is the ONLY LUXURY car maker to OFFER A HYBRID in a sports luxury sedan over 50k.

All other car makers BOW DOWN.

xioix

Not really, only the Prius, Civic Hybrid, and Insight gets that privilege, it has to meet a certain MPG mark to get the HOV use

LexFather

After reading it like ten times, I honestly think that is one of the better articles I've read out the American Mags in recent years.

It was pretty honest to me, pointing positives and negatives of both.

Two thumbs up to this article, we need more like this

They were looking for the better "Sports" sedan and the BMW has another deserving win . I think the Lexus held its own and should be proud of it's second place finish

doug_999

Interesting. But still they get worse mileage in the HOV lane vs. the regular lanes - right?

Believe it or not, it only gets the Gas Guzzler tax with the manual or the SMG. The auto (which is only .1 seconds slower... did I say that again?) actually gets better MPG and thus does not pay the tax.

Of course they did pay off somebody at the EPA cause I'm lucky to get 14MPG in stop and go driving (and yet I easily achive 25MPG on the highway).

bitkahuna

iTrader: (20)

The article points out the pros and cons pretty fairly I think.

Bottom line - Lexus still isn't (and probably will never be) really interested in competing head to head with BMW.

And Mike - by Lexus' consistently sending in less than their best optioned models for comparisons I have to believe it's deliberate - maybe they don't want insurance companies think they make hot vehicles.

xioix

No, getting worse MPG depends on traffic, it's not like the HOV lanes are traffic free

To get the privileges it has to meet these things 45+MPG and ATPZEV emission

LexFather

Well Bit, I am a die hard LEXUS guy but also a die honest guy and Lexus is being GHEY AS HELL sending 1/2 *** models to comparisons.

I think I am going to write a letter.

Thanks for pointing that out Doug

yaro1

Does ATPZEV stand for

Absolutely
Totally
Positively
Zero
Emissions
Vehicle

?


By the way, I also enjoyed this article. I thought it was pretty fair, noticing the +s and -s of each car.

But Lexus is the clear winner for me. Nearly equal performance, better mileage, WOW factor (hybrid), less money, reliability.

If I valued performance over luxury though, I would probably be on another forum saying the complete opposite.

By the way, for anyone who has the actual magazine, isn't that new Ferrari AWESOME?

CrazyMPG

iTrader: (4)

they should do a test with all cars that compare with the GS450h and have them all fully loaded so we can see the difference...heh... put them all out....benz, bmw, jag, infiniti, etc...

videcormeum

I agree.

While I'll concede that the GS has better exterior styling and a slightly better interior, with the 550 you get the option of THREE different transmissions (6spd full manual; 6spd SMG; 6spd Steptronic) ALL of which are MORE RESPONSIVE than Lexus' ONE tranny.

The GS is what it is, but it's not a great sport sedan like the 5 series.

M.

RA40

iTrader: (6)

Usually there is a more obvious bias and this article took the side of omission rather than the jabs of other comparisions. What can one say when it has become obvious Lexus is a strong contender in many different classes of passenger vehicles. At least this author didn't run off at the mouth and will have his words come back next year or so.

That aside, to me, they are only comparable in terms of basic size. BMW takes one approach toward sport driving, while the Lex goes toward comfort. It's nice that it holds well against the sportier BMW and based on this author's review, I'd opt for the Lex as it suits my desires in a car.

Now if BMw had integrated a hybrid type drive system, the comparison would have other merits to discuss on a more even playing field.