encore888

Sounds like they should get a bigger facility...of course I haven't been to the Toyota Museum, you guys have, but I wonder if they would not benefit by losing the anonymity of the supposedly secret location, and instead putting the awards, trophies, and prototype cars on full public display at the Toyota USA headquarters--housed inside a modern, cutting-edge building...a Lexus Museum would not hurt IMO the Lexus brand heritage.

Or perhaps they are afraid of becoming too arrogant with all those awards displayed prominently? Perhaps it's a way of being humble?

I was quite impressed by the wall of JD Power awards both at the Auto Show and at Longo Toyota...

flipside909

They're working on that. They outgrew the facility they have now 3 years ago. They want to make a facility available for the public like they do at the Toyota Museum in Japan.

mmarshall

Quit living in the past. The days of Hyundai and Kia making junk are gone. If you don't want to take my word for it ( or the word of others here on CL ) go to the dealerships and see them for yourself.

GFerg

No shock from Toyota/Lexus. Another domination list.

Jaguar in the top 5!!! Thats great. Nice to see them stepping up to the plate.

Anyone else notice that Buick dropped like a ROCK?? I'm sure many dont care here, but damn. They have been in the top 5 or 10 for awhile, now they are way below average.

MB and BMW....sigh.

Hmmm....whats up with your boys at Subaru mmarshall?? They are below MB and BMW.

Ex-Lexic

In the June 8 Wall Street Journal there was an article with the headlines: "Porsche Takes Lead In Major Quality Study" sub: "J.D. Power Survey Drops Longtime Leader Lexus To No. 2" Some quotes from the article: "Lexus, which had held the top spot for five years, came in second, while Porsche moved into first place from last year's ranking of 31." Also, "Besides Porsche, German brands generally dropped in the survey, with DaimlerChrysler AG's Mercedes-Benz and BMW AG both falling to below average from top-10 rankings last year." BELOW AVERAGE! Jeez...

encore888

Yeah, if the old ratings system were taken into account, Lexus would be #1 again this year. Oh well, #2 ain't bad, considering Lexus models won in virtually every individual quality category entered as part of this survey. And some room for improvement.

Gojirra99

While it's good that Lexus did very well as usual in this IQS, it's their VDS for 3 year old cars that 's more relevent & important. Lexus should do excellent as usual in that one too.

TRDFantasy

Survey also mentioned that Lexus LS and Porsche Cayman were tied for top spot of the vehicle with the fewest problems/defects.

nate579

iTrader: (4)

I think it's unfair comparison, because most porche owners drive their car on the weekends and don't really drive them hard. Lexus owners use theirs as a daily driver. Also porche is a low volume manufacturer. Lexus sells at lest 3-4 times as many. But I heard nothing but good things about the reliability of porches.

XeroK00L

Really...I know quite a few people who commute in their Porsches and drive their big sedans/SUVs for weekend activities.

nate579

iTrader: (4)

[QUOTE=XeroK00L]Really...I know quite a few people who commute in their Porsches and drive their big sedans/SUVs for weekend activities.[/QUOT

Here in the D.C. area, it's the other way around. Because of the bad roads drivers probaly couldn't tolerate the daily pounding in a 911. But you will see alot of Boxsters and Cayennes. Basically I am saying that the report would be askewed do to manufacturing volume and reporting. I am would guess if production numbers was the same between the 2 companies then Lexus would be on top. But good for Porsche and Hyundai, who I think came in 3rd.

Edit: Check that on Hyundai, 10th.

TunedRX300

[QUOTE=nate579]Actually it would be better for us Lexus owners to stop making execuses for Lexus being 2nd. Being 2nd means Lexus to have rooms to improve their cars. We can also argue that Toyota makes a lot of models , from truck, compact sedan, sport coupe, to luxury SUV, virtually targeting all market segment. For sure Toyota should have more models listed in the Survey than Porsche because Porsche has far fewer models and target only performance oriented drivers. Sure we can argue about criteria and spin the way in favor of Lexus, but does this mean we will get better designed and more reliable cars from Toyota in the future?

nate579

iTrader: (4)

I concur with your statment.

usermel

...one for surveys and what they are supposed to mean. The Porshe doesnt concern me at all.Nor do any of the cars that fell in the survey or rised in the survey. All cars are flawed, surveys are only to give the consumer insight on what cars are probably going to be more reliable. This is not a pure science at all. If it was Benz and those who fell on the survey couldnt give away there cars.

Here or there, consumers make a choice based on reliability. More often they dont because, cars are a part of the person buying them. Some fit needs and needs only. Some fill the void of a persons dreams since childhood. I for one hate surveys.

One year Lexus is #1, the next its #2. What happens if next year Lexus drops to #10, do we turn inn our cars then or stop buying Lexus? No, we buy them no matter the survey. Some people dont do proper service up keep. I think this contributes to the problem of the reliability of the car also. There isnt a perfect car so even when Lexus was #1 years running I never cared, I just wanted the car because I liked it hands down.

I'm not trying to take up for Lexus or Benz or any other car make, Im just saying no car company makes aperfect car, just less than another might have. I know people who own Benzes, BMW's and other makes with troubled histories that have never had but maybe 1 or 2 problems at most. Some have had zero problems with there BMW or Benz.




GOD IS GOOD!

mmarshall

Follow my posts back all the way to 2003 when I first joined CL. Have I EVER had a high opinion of J.D. Power's data? I'm not just saying that as a Subaru fan, notwithstanding the fact that Subarus are quite reliable except for the 1999-2002 Phase I 2.5L H4 engine .....I'm looking at how the company in general operates. I was a J.D. Power focus group panelist for several years. ( not just someone who filled out a survey in the mail when they got a new car, but who actually took part in group focus discussions )
J.D. Power's system of ranking nameplates, and the data they use, did not impress me and still doesn't....that is why you rarely see me make a lot of references to them in my car reviews or new-car recommendations. For one thing, they refused to alter their system of NOT ranking the vehicles by namplate that scored below average until the matter went up to Mr. Power himself.
They would rank the order of the ones that scored above average but not those below...they just listed the makes alphabetically that scored below average. Now, at least partly at my insistance, they rank ALL vehicles by actual results....but their data collection, IMO, is still second-rate. I'm not going to just bad-mouth them....they do some good things too, but their vehicle rankings don't impress me and never have. For instance, they have highly rated some vehicles for reliability, like Jaguars, that in actuality have spent more time in the shop than out. ( Jaguar DID have a couple of fairly good years in the mid 1990's but after that quickly reverted back to some of its old ways )

Now, Consumer Reports.....THERE is a class act. I place a LOT of stock in their New-Car issues every year, and read them cover to cover...they are excellent. While their results are not perfect, ( different models of the same car, not reflected in the repair records or other test rankings, can sometimes have different results not reflected in their issues....the Mitsubishi Evo as opposed to the Lancer and Ralliart is a good example ), you can bet the monthly rent that their reliability and repair data is among the best available.
Just for the record, CR agrees with JD Power in the high Lexus-Toyota rankings but does not with Subaru...in 2004 they ranked Subaru as the highest-rated brand for initial quality and the lowest number of defects...8 out of 100, with Honda and Lexus tied at second-place at 9. ( In fact, there was a CL thread on that ) Lexus is now back in first place, as it was for a number of years.
You mentioned M-B and BMW. Those are two makes that, while scoring high in the owner satisfaction ratings ( I-Drive excepted ) rank very low in reliability in CR data. M-B, by the way, was recently in LAST place, behind even notoriously poor-scoring brands as Land Rover and ( recently ) Nissan.

So in a nutshell, JD Power's quality rankings do not impress me, even if they were to rank Subaru in first place. If you want to worship at their altar, fine. I don't.