mmarshall

Be more impressed with the high quality rankings Consumer Reports gives Toyota and Honda .....they are worth more than J.D. Power trophies. ( see my response to magneto above )

mmarshall

Yes, be impressed, flip, but not because of this. Be impressed because of Consumer Reports, and what THEY have had to say about Toyotas and Hondas ( and yes, Subarus). Their data is more accurate then Power's.

( By the way, Consumer Reports, last year, rated the Lexus IS300 the most reliable single vehicle in their database...a vehicle you and I have both owned. At the same time, Subaru as a brand overall had the least number of defects ).

bitkahuna

iTrader: (20)

Where r u seeing this? I can't find a link to model data reflecting that. Thanks.

Gojirra99

See mid-size premium car category below :

bitkahuna

iTrader: (20)

Thanks but the GS isn't mentioned at all. If it is in that category then it's below the ES330 (which won) and to me it seems pretty pointless comparing the ES330 and GS.

Gojirra99

I think they go by size. I think they consider both ES & GS as mid-size & the GS isn't in the top 3.
This is a survey about quality/defects, so I think they group them together regardless whether they are RWD or FWD/AWD & how sporty they are.

bitkahuna

iTrader: (20)

Right and I think this points out how weak these surveys are. The GS and ES have quite a different 'feature set' and with all the gadgets on the GS maybe the old adage is true - "more to go wrong" - I don't know.

But comparing the ES and the Infiniti M seems pretty ridiculous too.

Looking at the 'large car' category also seems strange - the Hyundai Azera is 'large'? Could have fooled me when I looked at it! And a Maxima coming in 3rd? Uh, right.

mmarshall

The definition of a " large " car, of course, varies as much as the person speaking it, but the OFFICIAL definition of subcompact, small, medium, and large, and truck, is classed by the EPA based on interior volume, not exterior dimensions. For instance, the Toyota Prius, despite being fairly small on the outside, is EPA-classified as a " medium " sized car because of its interior. Now, here's something even more strange: The Subaru Legacy is EPA classified as a regular passenger car.....the Outback, which is mechancally identical except for slightly different suspension and wheels and more ground clearance, is considered a "truck". Go figure.

rominl

iTrader: (4)

props to lexus, read the ratings and results, and damn toyota/lexus really put their names everywhere. that's so crazy!!!!!

not sure if anyone mentioned, but with the new rating methods, mb is below industry average (as usual), and bmw drops way down?! boy that's not encouraging at all....

and between porsche and lexus, i think they both deserve the top. i know several people with porsche. if you talk about initial quality, they are both really good. and 91 and 93, when it comes to statistic i think that's small enough of a margin

mmarshall

Generally true. Porsche doesn't build junk, although early Boxsters had a lot of teething problems, especially with the power-operated top.

Threxx

Are you kidding me? You think the average lexus car gets beat on harder than the average Porsche. Lemme tell ya... people don't buy a Porsche to drive it like a grandpa.

nate579

iTrader: (4)

Like I said, "Here in the D.C. area", I know at least 8 porche 911 and 2 cayman owners. Driving in around the DC area all my life. Most porsche drivers are in the car for prestige and not for it's power and handling abilities. You see them at night in Georgetown or cruising the beltway on the weekend, but haulin *** down the fast lane never. In rush hour traffic rarely. On amateur circuits never, mostly in the garage waiting for the weekend cruise. The typical DC owners have 1 or 2 other commute cars to beat up on. Spend one day in DC rush hour and you will see where I am coming from. Lexus are in line at the light porsche are in the garages. Now other cities like Miami, L.A. Las Vegas. Well that's a different story. They do get more use in those cities, but not here on the Capitol beltway.

Threxx

I'm not saying that Porsches get beat on as consistantly as, say, Camaros and Mustangs, but think about the average Lexus driver. The people on this board are not normal Lexus drivers. We mod them, we race them, we beat on them. I know people who've modded their Dodge Caravans to the point they run 12s in the 1/4-mile... people who've taken Lincoln Towncars and made them run 11s. But it sure isn't representative of the norm. Normally luxury car makes; especially Lexus when compared to BMW or Infiniti, are driven more for luxury than they are for performance, and more by the older crowd than by the younger crowd.

It's all a question of averages. And we are on one extreme end of that 'average', here on this board.

DaveGS4

iTrader: (2)

Post moved to Car Chat... Please put all non-model specific discussions such as this one in the car chat forum, thanks

Oh, and as someone (not in the DC area ) who has both a Porsche and a Lexus in their garage, the Porsche is most definitely driven harder. Has been very reliable as well.

Ramon

I'm pretty sure this survey was not limited to the DC area, so that is irrelevant.