XeroK00L

Now if only Toyota can start infusing some of that Subaru AWD prowess into its own car lineup...
http://www.autospies.com/article/ind...&categoryId=23

mmarshall

Subaru, hands-down....at least among lower-priced vehicles. The Volvo Haldex system is a good unit...nothing wrong with it. Ford ( Volvo's owner ) uses it in some of their car-based AWD vehicles like the Escape and Five Hundred, but unlike Subaru's, it is more complex, being hooked mainly to transverse-mounted engines that require more bevel gears to re-route the power straight back. It also allows some wheel-slip before the power is rerouted to the wheels with traction. Subaru systems, on the other hand, hook right up to a flat-4 or flat-6 engine with the output shaft going straight back ( and having a lower center-of-gravity to boot for better handling ) Subaru also, unlike Volvo, offers five different AWD center-differential systems depending on engine and transmission...see the web site for details.
http://www.subaru.com/sub/misc/safety/index.html# ( Click "Learn More" under the Symmetrical All-wheel-drive paragraph)
It's a safe bet to say Subaru has the best AWD systems in the market under $35,000, but the SH ( Special Handling ) AWD in the new Acura RL that distrubutes torque side-to-side as well as front-to-back is probably the best car-based AWD system on the market regardless of price. However, it is expensive ( almost $50,000, though the car can be bought at a discount ) , complex, and would be quite difficult and expensive to repair after an accident or warranty expiration.

Och

iTrader: (3)

LOL, Hondas SH-AWD pwnz Volvo and Subary

spwolf

Actually, Subbies AWD is now prettty old school, being all mechanical, without electronic aids.

AutoBild had an recent test with many different vehicles compared, from Outback to 530xi, to E320 4Matic, to Audi A4/6 AWD, Fiat Panda 4x4, etc, and actually Outback had the worst test results for braking, skidpad, snow, ice, rain, etc. It simply did not react as fast as electronic systems that use ESP to brake the wheels.

mmarshall

What's LOL about it ? I mentioned in my post that the Acura SH AWD was probably the best one currently in production.

mmarshall

Well, sometimes older is better. The electronics on some of those high-priced European AWD systems you mention like Audi and M-B have been very unreliable....although the mechanical parts of the Audi Quattro system are very good.

The Outback's test results could be the specific tires on that car...tires can make a tremendous difference.

Talk to just about any mechanic or technician who works on vehicles for a living and most of them......at least here in the U.S...... will tell you that Subaru has the best AWD systems among lower-priced vehicles.

Subaru did not get to be the official car of the U.S Ski team ( over a lot of higher-priced European AWD's ) for nothing.

Och

iTrader: (3)

Well, yeah, I agree 100%, i just found it funny that we are discussing volvo vs subaru while Honda has a much superior sustem that renders subary and volvo obsolete.

mmarshall

Apples vs. oranges, my friend. The Acura SH AWD system is great if you want to spend $45,000-$50,000. For $35,000 and under you can't beat the Subaru systems.....one of the main reasons why they sell so well. They are FAR from " obsolete ".

You don't have to take my word for it......or that of a Subaru dealership. Go to some independent repair shops..........the guys who repair cars for a living........... and ask THEM who has the best AWD systems. In most cases they will tell you the same thing I am.....Subaru under 35K, Honda / Acura over 35K, although I myself was very impressed with the new AWD systems on the new Lexus GS and IS as well. The Audi Quattro system, mechanically, is impressive as well...but the electronics are unreliable.

Och

iTrader: (3)

True, but the sh-awd is going to find its way into the entire Acura lineup in the near future, so Subary better watch out.

mmarshall

Maybe. We'll see. It's a great system, but I don't think that Acura will be able to sell it for Impreza and Forester prices. ( 18-26K )

Och

iTrader: (3)

Well, TSX in the current form sells for 27K without navi, and the dealers let them go for less than that - when I was looking around he offered me 26k before I even said anything about the price. I'm pretty sure that redesigned TSX will have sh-awd, but I don't know if the price is going to increase.

How much is that new little SUV from Acura, the RDX? I believe it comes with sh-awd standard.

mmarshall

Yes...like you, I didn't start this Volvo vs. Subaru thread...I was just responding to it.

I don't think RDX prices have been released yet ( someone correct me if I'm wrong ) but they are expected to start around 30K.

4TehNguyen

iTrader: (1)

what the TSX needs is SH-AWD and the RDX turbo engine, the chassis and suspension on the car is excellent already, just needs a bit more go. Or the TSX can have two trims a base trim and a Type S trim (with SH-AWD and RDX engine)

Yes RDX has SH-AWD standard

LexFather

I think ya'll are forgetting the TSX is an Euro Accord with Acura badges. SO whatever they do to that car, we probably will get.

I do think SH-AWD is fantastic, however only under extreme conditions, its still very FWD biased 70/30 in the RL and 90/10 in the RDX.

Audi is 50/50 and the RS cars are 40/60. Not sure what Subies are but I know the WRX system is fantastic.

And the BEST system maybe in the JDM/Euro Mitsu EVO. The old Nissan Skyline GT-R had a fantastic system as well.

mmarshall

Guess it depends on what you are using it for. The Evo's AWD system, along with the Evo's lightning-quick 13:1 steering ratio, is superb for instantaneous response and yanking the car around corners sideways with the pull-up emergency brake, ( useful in dirt-road rally conditions ) but its scared-cat twitchiness makes the car skittish, unstable, and tiring to try and drive it in a straight line.
( see my recent review of the 2006 Evo IX )