1SICKRANT:Is it just me or I don't like the look of most new cars/SUVs (NWS pics)
06-27-06, 11:12 AM
#31
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Originally Posted by GS69
[FONT=Georgia] [COLOR=Indigo] There are plenty of cars that I find unattractive but my current favorite would be the Chrysler 300. No wonder they have to offer 0% financing for 6 years & 30 day $$$ back guarantee.
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Except that it's been the hottest car in America since its introduction.
And those tons of sales are due to it's STYLING and as a bonus its power (300C).
06-27-06, 11:30 AM
#32
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Originally Posted by SoCalSC4
Not sure everyone on this LEXUS board will agree with you about the 2GS being ugly... in stock form they do leave something to be desired, but were unique with their four headlight/four taillight design and subtle fender flares.
I used to think that the 2GS looked fine, but now I think it's ugly every time I see one. Can't really explain why. I think it's mainly the headlights and the bulbous profile.
06-27-06, 11:32 AM
#33
Except that it's been the hottest car in America since its introduction.
And those tons of sales are due to it's STYLING and as a bonus its power (300C).
And those tons of sales are due to it's STYLING and as a bonus its power (300C).
"Hey kid, we know you're 19 but guess what Ludacris has three Bentley's in his front yard, now guess what, you can have one too, and for only 27k, we'll even throw in some 22's and a chrome grill at cost"
The Hemi version didn't start to take off until after the base 300's were selling like hotcakes and people wanted to be 'different' than the neighbor's kid who just bought his but still wanted their 'Bentley'.
Can't think of any better poser car in history. lol, I can't stand em
06-27-06, 11:45 AM
#34
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Originally Posted by oohpapi44
Uhhh NOT really!!! It is selling ONLY because of MTV's cribs. The car was designed for only one segment of the population (urban youth) and Chrysler has never been shy about admitting it and the marketing plan has worked flawlessly to the point of market saturation.
"Hey kid, we know you're 19 but guess what Ludacris has three Bentley's in his front yard, now guess what, you can have one too, and for only 27k, we'll even throw in some 22's and a chrome grill at cost"
The Hemi version didn't start to take off until after the base 300's were selling like hotcakes and people wanted to be 'different' than the neighbor's kid who just bought his but still wanted their 'Bentley'.
Can't think of any better poser car in history. lol, I can't stand em
"Hey kid, we know you're 19 but guess what Ludacris has three Bentley's in his front yard, now guess what, you can have one too, and for only 27k, we'll even throw in some 22's and a chrome grill at cost"
The Hemi version didn't start to take off until after the base 300's were selling like hotcakes and people wanted to be 'different' than the neighbor's kid who just bought his but still wanted their 'Bentley'.
Can't think of any better poser car in history. lol, I can't stand em
Never seen an episode of "Cribs" whatever that is.
Not to argue, but most of the 300's I see are certainly not the young crowd (they really can't afford them). It's people in their 30's, 40's, 50's 60's, and 70's. It somehow appeals to everyone from
rappers to old ladies.
How could a full size sedan costing $23k - 35+k be designed for specifically for urban youth???
This is the opposite ingredients for an urban youth car.
06-27-06, 12:03 PM
#35
Never seen an episode of "Cribs" whatever that is.
Not to argue, but most of the 300's I see are certainly not the young crowd (they really can't afford them). It's people in their 30's, 40's, 50's 60's, and 70's. It somehow appeals to everyone from
rappers to old ladies.
How could a full size sedan costing $23k - 35+k be designed for specifically for urban youth???
This is the opposite ingredients for an urban youth car.
Not to argue, but most of the 300's I see are certainly not the young crowd (they really can't afford them). It's people in their 30's, 40's, 50's 60's, and 70's. It somehow appeals to everyone from
rappers to old ladies.
How could a full size sedan costing $23k - 35+k be designed for specifically for urban youth???
This is the opposite ingredients for an urban youth car.
The car 'crossed over' because it was a hit with the younger crowd and climbed its way up the charts, since when does price matter when you target a certain market? Look at the ipod or PS2, remember the price when they first came out?
06-27-06, 12:21 PM
#37
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Originally Posted by oohpapi44
No argument at all, as SickLex correctly described it in Post #9 of this thread, you'll see the 'similiarities' in the design. Then go watch an early episode of MTV cribs (show giving you an inside looks of celebrity homes and garages) and you'll see what I mean. And FYI, the 300 was designed by a minority, Ralph Gilles.
The car 'crossed over' because it was a hit with the younger crowd and climbed its way up the charts, since when does price matter when you target a certain market? Look at the ipod or PS2, remember the price when they first came out?
The car 'crossed over' because it was a hit with the younger crowd and climbed its way up the charts, since when does price matter when you target a certain market? Look at the ipod or PS2, remember the price when they first came out?
Same thing happened with the Cadillac Escalade. I doubt GM intended on designing their SUV with rappers in mind. But that's now part of the image of the Escalade even though most young people could never afford one.
06-27-06, 12:31 PM
#38
Same thing happened with the Cadillac Escalade. I doubt GM intended on designing their SUV with rappers in mind. But that's now part of the image of the Escalade even though most young people could never afford one.
You're talking about price like Caddy or Chrysler cares about who can or can't afford their car. They aren't a finance company, they sell cars. You can't pay, it's the finance companies problem.
06-27-06, 12:35 PM
#39
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No disagreement from me. I blame not only management that doesn't understand the car business and designers that should be off playing with their HotWheels than designing cars (for those of you who will take offense at that please don't, I don't mind people being fascinated with toys but automotive design has wound up in the toilet). I know we dump on Bangle but this should not be devoted to him although I predict that when they jettison Crown Prince Bangle that this generation of bimmers become some of the least desirable bimmers of all time - assuming they don't find somebody worse to adore for their designs. And to back pedal a bit further, the fabled Ford Focus Fender Flares on the new S are far more noticeable in pictures than they are in the real sheet metal.
But attractive, enduring, classic automotive designs? None for years. I was really waiting for the new XK but if I read one more article where some trim bit or curve on a tail light lens is meant to evoke the E type, I will hurl. There is none of the timeliness of the E type in the new XK. And Jag has both ends of the spectrum covered - they are so inept at designing new cars that all they can do is role out new model after new model that - surprise - looks exactly like the one it is replacing. The Chrysler 300 design path? It certainly generated sales but evidently it is already burning out and when it dies, I predict it will die hard. That will be as a result of a design whose biggest claim to fame was being different. The truth is that there is nothing out there that inspires any of the passion for cars that I had years ago.
Now, with apologies to 1Sick who can tell me that this is not appropriate, my other big gripe is how annoying cars have gotten. I can't believe that cars that still drive fairly well, like bimmers, have gone so far out of their way to put systems or ergonomic details in their cars that are just flat annoying on a daily basis. And the best defense that the supporters of these brands come up with to defend their fine marque is that you have to be some sort of troglodite to not want to devote the time to learn the screwy systems in their cars and that you are just a low life if you don't pop a couple of thousand bucks to get a somewhat more comfortable seat. Enough already. 80 or a hundred large for a car with a design whose best points are the fact that you can't see them from the drivers seat with a bewildering assortment array of technology that was incorporated for technology's sake that makes me constantly look at the dash wondering when the thing will stop dead and put up a blue screen of death that commands me to insert the boot disk late one night is ridiculous. I will also admit I love good handling and power and yes I know that gasoline is trivial for everyone here but when I look at cars trying to find something interesting that gets over 30mpg, there isn't much to pick from.
I was getting ready to replace one of the GSs next year but with the current crop, I may just wait it out. I have issues with my GS but keeping it for ten years or more is not one of them. Unfortunately, I don't see car guys around much anymore. By that I mean the guys who had some passion and an eye for automotive design other than blowing their load over the first 30inch rim, rubber band tire, or the next body kit abomination to light up their life. And for gosh sakes, retro needs to be a short term homage to a past classic design, not a company's financial savior. And I thought the late 70s were the automotive dark ages.
But attractive, enduring, classic automotive designs? None for years. I was really waiting for the new XK but if I read one more article where some trim bit or curve on a tail light lens is meant to evoke the E type, I will hurl. There is none of the timeliness of the E type in the new XK. And Jag has both ends of the spectrum covered - they are so inept at designing new cars that all they can do is role out new model after new model that - surprise - looks exactly like the one it is replacing. The Chrysler 300 design path? It certainly generated sales but evidently it is already burning out and when it dies, I predict it will die hard. That will be as a result of a design whose biggest claim to fame was being different. The truth is that there is nothing out there that inspires any of the passion for cars that I had years ago.
Now, with apologies to 1Sick who can tell me that this is not appropriate, my other big gripe is how annoying cars have gotten. I can't believe that cars that still drive fairly well, like bimmers, have gone so far out of their way to put systems or ergonomic details in their cars that are just flat annoying on a daily basis. And the best defense that the supporters of these brands come up with to defend their fine marque is that you have to be some sort of troglodite to not want to devote the time to learn the screwy systems in their cars and that you are just a low life if you don't pop a couple of thousand bucks to get a somewhat more comfortable seat. Enough already. 80 or a hundred large for a car with a design whose best points are the fact that you can't see them from the drivers seat with a bewildering assortment array of technology that was incorporated for technology's sake that makes me constantly look at the dash wondering when the thing will stop dead and put up a blue screen of death that commands me to insert the boot disk late one night is ridiculous. I will also admit I love good handling and power and yes I know that gasoline is trivial for everyone here but when I look at cars trying to find something interesting that gets over 30mpg, there isn't much to pick from.
I was getting ready to replace one of the GSs next year but with the current crop, I may just wait it out. I have issues with my GS but keeping it for ten years or more is not one of them. Unfortunately, I don't see car guys around much anymore. By that I mean the guys who had some passion and an eye for automotive design other than blowing their load over the first 30inch rim, rubber band tire, or the next body kit abomination to light up their life. And for gosh sakes, retro needs to be a short term homage to a past classic design, not a company's financial savior. And I thought the late 70s were the automotive dark ages.
06-27-06, 02:09 PM
#40
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Originally Posted by RON430
No disagreement from me. I blame not only management that doesn't understand the car business and designers that should be off playing with their HotWheels than designing cars (for those of you who will take offense at that please don't, I don't mind people being fascinated with toys but automotive design has wound up in the toilet). I know we dump on Bangle but this should not be devoted to him although I predict that when they jettison Crown Prince Bangle that this generation of bimmers become some of the least desirable bimmers of all time - assuming they don't find somebody worse to adore for their designs. And to back pedal a bit further, the fabled Ford Focus Fender Flares on the new S are far more noticeable in pictures than they are in the real sheet metal.
But attractive, enduring, classic automotive designs? None for years. I was really waiting for the new XK but if I read one more article where some trim bit or curve on a tail light lens is meant to evoke the E type, I will hurl. There is none of the timeliness of the E type in the new XK. And Jag has both ends of the spectrum covered - they are so inept at designing new cars that all they can do is role out new model after new model that - surprise - looks exactly like the one it is replacing. The Chrysler 300 design path? It certainly generated sales but evidently it is already burning out and when it dies, I predict it will die hard. That will be as a result of a design whose biggest claim to fame was being different. The truth is that there is nothing out there that inspires any of the passion for cars that I had years ago.
Now, with apologies to 1Sick who can tell me that this is not appropriate, my other big gripe is how annoying cars have gotten. I can't believe that cars that still drive fairly well, like bimmers, have gone so far out of their way to put systems or ergonomic details in their cars that are just flat annoying on a daily basis. And the best defense that the supporters of these brands come up with to defend their fine marque is that you have to be some sort of troglodite to not want to devote the time to learn the screwy systems in their cars and that you are just a low life if you don't pop a couple of thousand bucks to get a somewhat more comfortable seat. Enough already. 80 or a hundred large for a car with a design whose best points are the fact that you can't see them from the drivers seat with a bewildering assortment array of technology that was incorporated for technology's sake that makes me constantly look at the dash wondering when the thing will stop dead and put up a blue screen of death that commands me to insert the boot disk late one night is ridiculous. I will also admit I love good handling and power and yes I know that gasoline is trivial for everyone here but when I look at cars trying to find something interesting that gets over 30mpg, there isn't much to pick from.
I was getting ready to replace one of the GSs next year but with the current crop, I may just wait it out. I have issues with my GS but keeping it for ten years or more is not one of them. Unfortunately, I don't see car guys around much anymore. By that I mean the guys who had some passion and an eye for automotive design other than blowing their load over the first 30inch rim, rubber band tire, or the next body kit abomination to light up their life. And for gosh sakes, retro needs to be a short term homage to a past classic design, not a company's financial savior. And I thought the late 70s were the automotive dark ages.
But attractive, enduring, classic automotive designs? None for years. I was really waiting for the new XK but if I read one more article where some trim bit or curve on a tail light lens is meant to evoke the E type, I will hurl. There is none of the timeliness of the E type in the new XK. And Jag has both ends of the spectrum covered - they are so inept at designing new cars that all they can do is role out new model after new model that - surprise - looks exactly like the one it is replacing. The Chrysler 300 design path? It certainly generated sales but evidently it is already burning out and when it dies, I predict it will die hard. That will be as a result of a design whose biggest claim to fame was being different. The truth is that there is nothing out there that inspires any of the passion for cars that I had years ago.
Now, with apologies to 1Sick who can tell me that this is not appropriate, my other big gripe is how annoying cars have gotten. I can't believe that cars that still drive fairly well, like bimmers, have gone so far out of their way to put systems or ergonomic details in their cars that are just flat annoying on a daily basis. And the best defense that the supporters of these brands come up with to defend their fine marque is that you have to be some sort of troglodite to not want to devote the time to learn the screwy systems in their cars and that you are just a low life if you don't pop a couple of thousand bucks to get a somewhat more comfortable seat. Enough already. 80 or a hundred large for a car with a design whose best points are the fact that you can't see them from the drivers seat with a bewildering assortment array of technology that was incorporated for technology's sake that makes me constantly look at the dash wondering when the thing will stop dead and put up a blue screen of death that commands me to insert the boot disk late one night is ridiculous. I will also admit I love good handling and power and yes I know that gasoline is trivial for everyone here but when I look at cars trying to find something interesting that gets over 30mpg, there isn't much to pick from.
I was getting ready to replace one of the GSs next year but with the current crop, I may just wait it out. I have issues with my GS but keeping it for ten years or more is not one of them. Unfortunately, I don't see car guys around much anymore. By that I mean the guys who had some passion and an eye for automotive design other than blowing their load over the first 30inch rim, rubber band tire, or the next body kit abomination to light up their life. And for gosh sakes, retro needs to be a short term homage to a past classic design, not a company's financial savior. And I thought the late 70s were the automotive dark ages.
I'll have more pics and comparos later.
And Jrock, sorry but your smoking rocks if you think that bad about the 2GS. You got to be kidding me. That design is SO INFLUENTIAL and groundbreaking in a GOOD way, every Nissan the past 6 years looks like it in one way shape or form.
06-27-06, 02:22 PM
#41
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Originally Posted by RON430
The Chrysler 300 design path? It certainly generated sales but evidently it is already burning out and when it dies, I predict it will die hard. That will be as a result of a design whose biggest claim to fame was being different. .
The big RWD Impala SS of the early-mid 1990's fulfilled that role to some extent but didn't have the visual appeal the new 300 did.
06-27-06, 02:27 PM
#42
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Originally Posted by mmarshall
I agree with 1SICK that this was an excellent post. But the 300's success was not so much being different as it was the fact that it offered the public wanted.......something that the first V6 FWD 300M SHOULD have and didn't.....a big ( by today's standards) RWD V8-equipped American road car that took us back to the glory days of the 50's and 60's. That is why when the RWD 300C first came out, Hemis went off the lot faster than they could come in while V6's sat on the lot collecting dust and bird dirt. Later on V6's started selling.
1. RWD
2. Great price
3. Good and GREAT power
4. Good features
5. Good size.
6. Decent quality
I mean the makings of a winner!!!
Then they wrap it in ANOTHER CAR's body. So its great merits are simply overlooked by the fact, its a fake looking Bentley.
This is one of my favorite American cars, I do like it in SRT-8 form or even stock. When people try to turn it into the Bentley, it makes my stomach churn. Why? Its a fantastic car ON ITS OWN FEET.
I do wonder though, if FORD say offered those same features, IN THEIR BODYSTYLE, would it sell better?
06-27-06, 02:34 PM
#43
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Originally Posted by CHIS350
How about the Chrysler PT Cruiser? I know it seems kind of a joke, but that design has been out what, 8 years, and it still has pretty solid sales!
Look at sneaker companies now, they are re-releasing the SAME SNEAKERS as they did 5, 10, 20 years ago! They have run out of ideas.
Instead of making new classics, they'll just bring out a retro shoe in a new color.
Cars are the same. The new Mustang is a throwback to the first one. They ran out of ideas. Thing is its selling like nuts. THough the PRICE and HARDWARE are great.
How do you update retro? You can't. Its based on what was. You cannot change what was. You cannot go back in time. And if you change the design to much, its not retro.
06-27-06, 02:40 PM
#44
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Originally Posted by 1SICKLEX
The funny thing is I LOVE the 300C based on its merits:
1. RWD
2. Great price
3. Good and GREAT power
4. Good features
5. Good size.
6. Decent quality
I
1. RWD
2. Great price
3. Good and GREAT power
4. Good features
5. Good size.
6. Decent quality
I
#6? Dunno.....most of the sheet metal, trim, and hardware on the 300, typical of Chrysler products, is dime-store cheesiness, just with a layer of coated flash to make it look glitzy.
But the car's Mercedes-derived chassis, transmission, brakes, safety features, and of course, the Hemi engine are all first-rate.
06-27-06, 02:52 PM
#45
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Originally Posted by mmarshall
I agree with 1SICK that this was an excellent post. But the 300's success was not so much being different as it was the fact that it offered the public wanted.......something that the first V6 FWD 300M SHOULD have and didn't.....a big ( by today's standards) RWD V8-equipped American road car that took us back to the glory days of the 50's and 60's. That is why when the RWD 300C first came out, Hemis went off the lot faster than they could come in while V6's sat on the lot collecting dust and bird dirt. Later on V6's started selling.
The big RWD Impala SS of the early-mid 1990's fulfilled that role to some extent but didn't have the visual appeal the new 300 did.
The big RWD Impala SS of the early-mid 1990's fulfilled that role to some extent but didn't have the visual appeal the new 300 did.
Now how we handle 3 or 4 or 5 or 10 dollar a gallon gas with a need to move things and people and still have performance is a big issue. But one thing is for sure, at least for me. I can give up on a lot of things, both my and my wife's E types were straight sixes when the Corvette had its big thumping V8 but I would not have given the E type up for anything because it was simply drop dead gorgeous. Still is. But anything else? I am amazed at the number of cars that I can see an individual feature that is done quite well but the whole car sucks. In fact, the Charger has many individual features that are quite nice but the whole car just disappoints. I will entirely agree that the Americans have found value, something the Europeans lost a long time ago and yes, the Japanese seem to be getting away from. Even the new Impala can come with 303hp. But is there any passion in these designs? Not to my eye. And do they load them up with unbelievable annoyances? Yes. And of course there is the reliability issue which can't be overlooked. Yes European cars drive better than Japanese cars and yes they are far more prone to problems. And yes I am back looking at European cars but even the best of them have so many annoying parts to them that I am truly hoping the new LS is a viable alternative even if it doesn't drive well. If I am going to do something crazy, I might just as well do it with a new Camaro and at least save some money. Then again, if the GTO was any indication, it will photograph well, be a good buy, and annoyingly trashy when it gets here.