sha4000

iTrader: (1)

thats funny b/c i see young guys driving them all around new york and atlanta plus everywhere else up and down the east coast which is where i travel alot

mmarshall

No, it's not off-topic. That is the purpose of this thread....our opinions on the design of new cars vs. old ones.

Didn't the XKE have a V12 option like some other Jags? The engine compartment was certainly long enough for it.

BTW.....if you are an XKE fanatic, get in touch with Peter Egan of ROAD and TRACK magazine. He rebilds old British cars and has had several XKEs...does a column every month in the magazine.

jrock65

Talk about the car, not me. Notice that I'm giving my opinion about cars, not ridiculing your opinions or the opinions of others?

Fine, in your OPINION every Nissan copied your former GS. You've said that about 100 times already. I still think it's ugly.

RON430

I'm not so much an E type fanatic as much as I just happened to have owned one. My wife had as well. I look at pictures of that car today and it is still gorgeous. The Series I, II, and a lot of III were all straight sixes. I had a Series III with the straight six right before the twelves came out. Twelve cylinder engines are amazing, almost electric feel, but the "purists" will argue that the real E types were true descendants of the D type and had the straight six. I am not so much of a purist and I had all the fun I could stand with a UniSyn trying to get the multiple side draft carbs to draw equally so the six was fine for me. But in most ways, it would be a competitive car today although it is anyone's guess what the bumpers would look like. I have finally had a chance to get up close and personal with the new XK and it is a bit disappointing to me. It might be an improvement over the previous version but not exactly what I wanted. In order to get better handling, the ride has stiffened up quite a bit and that pretty much turned me off.

I should also point out that I am not so convinced that the old designs were so much better than today but it is just that there have been some classic designs like the E type and the previous gen bimmers but most everything today is just dull, unimaginative, or out and out fugly. The Audi maw is not anywhere as noticeable when you are standing up next to the car but get away from them and, just like the Vdubs, you ask yourself "What were they thinking?" And sorry to continue but I am simply astonished at how annoying some bits of modern cars are. I appreciate modcons but the 69 Z28 had a fixed steering wheel, fixed pedals, a non-adjustable seat back, no lumbar cushion and barely any travel fore and aft but I had no trouble getting comfortable in it. I get into a 750iL with 65 microprocessors (complete with the worlds worst computer interface), a 137 way adjustable seat, bun warmers, bun coolers, a steering wheel that has more positions than the Kama Sutra and I can't get comfortable in the thing. Annoying.

CK6Speed

iTrader: (1)

I don't quite agree that it is ugly, but the 2GS is definately one car if I owned I would not leave stock. I think modified they are really nice, but kind of bland in pure bone stock form. The E39 with OEM M-Tech and sports package on the other hand I could actually leave stock and be happy with the looks. I think it is because of the boxy shape of the G2 GS compared to the smooth look of the E39. I like the smooth look better, thus why I'm not a particulary huge fan of the L-Finess style since it has many hard lines and is very edgy. Not ungly, just a style I'm not 100% ready for.

LexFather

So basically, your saying the original, the 2GS is ugly, but the knock-off Nissans and all the influenced sedans are fine.

That is fine I guess.

People that don't see the 2GS lines in Nissans are blind. Period. The influence is all over, from the swooping roofline to the round turn signal in the headlamps, down the Nissan raping Altezzas from the IS 300.

Which now brings me to my next point, Altezzas.

jrock65

Please stop attributing things to me that I did not say. I did not comment, whether positive, negative, or otherwise, about the design of Nissans. You're the one that brought up Nissans, as you're often apt to do.

Sure, the 2GS had some influence on other sedans. Many sedans have influence on each other. I'm sure that other sedans had some influence on the 2GS itself as well.

Even if there is a design influence, subtle changes can make a big difference. Take an ugly car, make just a few little changes to it, and it can be fine.

Sorry you're so insulted that I think the 2GS is ugly. As I said, many will not agree with that. No need for the personal ridiculing and getting all worked up about it.

DaveGS4

iTrader: (2)

Guys back on topic or take it to PM.

knihc2008

iTrader: (1)

Influential and groundbreaking? What car did it influence exactly?

The only influence I see going on in the 2GS is the way it copied the E-Class's quad headlamps.

videcormeum

I'm pretty sure Chrysler/Dodge has had some quality/reliability problems w/ the 5.7 liter "hemi" engine.

So I wouldn't count it among Chrysler's quality achievements - though it has had a remarkable effect (with some marketing help) on sales.

M.

Och

iTrader: (3)

No, the E-Class copied taurus

knihc2008

iTrader: (1)

Are you serious?

SoCalSC4

Great post! It's funny you mention ergonomics (or lack thereof). Design is more than exterior aesthetics; it how you interface with the car and the tactile feel of the controls.

I've been driving a new 750iL the last few days. The car looks pretty sharp with its' 22" wheels and Sport package- it certainly has presence on the road and gets looks from other drivers.

There are a few things that have frustrated me about it, though. iDrive. You really need a 15 minute primer to figure out how to work this thing. When I first got in the car, the A/C and the radio were both on full-blast. Within a few seconds, I arranged to lower the radio volume through the steering wheel controls (the icons on the steering wheel aren't actually very intuitive, it turns out... I ended up changing the station at first) and I did figure out how to turn the noisy jet engine HVAC fan down to a tolerable and quiet speed via the manual controls on the dash.

For two days I drove the car choosing not to interface with the NAV system or do anything but listen to the radio (I can work part of this with the steering wheel). Today, I decided to just sit in the car (for a quite a few minutes) to familiarize myself with the iDrive controls. I'm a pretty smart guy, but it does take some getting used to. Frankly, it's not that easy to manipulate some of the higher functions while driving down the road- one must spend too much time staring at the display screen.

My other gripes;
-The Start/Stop button is hidden behind the steering wheel.
-The Shift control is pretty cool, but twice I have hit the lower lever arm and washed the windshield instead of putting the car in/out of gear. Embarassing... and so much for a clean car.
-The red dash lights. I find these difficult to focus on at night. I am sure that somewhere BMW has written white papers explaining why red is the best color for dash lights, but I can't stand it. This would be a deal breaker if I was in the market for a car like this.
-The seat controls are on the center console and not as intuitive as I would have expected.
-There are two Chicket-sized silver rectangular buttons at 10:00 and 2:00 on the steering wheel. I have no idea what these do.

It's the age-old thing; nobody wants 247 buttons on their dash... but a few is okay, isn't it? Heck, I actually like radios that have ***** on them for volume control. Am I old school?

picus

I like radios with ***** too.

I predict the current crop of BMW's will have some of the best re-sale of any BMWs, so while I mostly agree with Rons posts (I think they're great posts, btw), I disagree that they will be undesirable.

bitkahuna

iTrader: (20)

1SICK - hilarious first few posts in this thread - LMAO

I'm with you and most everyone on here that most designs are bland, ugly, or both. I actually think it's ALWAYS been this way though - most designs are crap, some are good, some are pretty timeless, but boy they are few.

One thing in car makers defence is the massive pressure they've been put under but safety zealots and soccer moms scared by the 5:30 news, Dateline, and 60 minutes that their vehicles are evil baby killers.

Fitting in a dozen airbags, computers, hydraulic actuators and motors, impact beams, knee bolsters, etc., and making sure bumpers and hoods fit stupid European pedestrian endangerment laws isn't easy but car makers have had to be pre-occupied with it. It doesn't totally excuse fugly cars but design is under a lot of constraints.

But there's still some good designs out there. Some I like:

New Lexus IS
Nissan 350Z.
Infiniti M.
Infiniti G35 coupe and sedan
Audi A3,A4,A6,A8 (yes I think they all look good, even despite the gaudy grilles)
Mercedes E class
Ford Mustang (yes it's retro but they did a great job - mmarshall I know you think the interior is cheap but I checked it out, didn't think it was that bad especially considering the price point, and as the ads go, you hear the rumble of the GT's exhausts and you don't care about the interior )
Anything Aston Martin makes
New Chevy Tahoe (saw one on the road - wow, very nice)
Acura RL (what can I say, I like it, except for the awful wheels)
Honda Civic coupe
Anything Bentley makes As I mentioned in another thread, I recently took a long look over a new Continental Flying Spur (4 door GT basically) and it was stunning. It even had better stock rims than the one in this pic.