1SICKRANT:Is it just me or I don't like the look of most new cars/SUVs (NWS pics)
06-27-06, 08:33 PM
#61
Guest
Posts: n/a
Originally Posted by bitkahuna
1SICK - hilarious first few posts in this thread - LMAO 
I'm with you and most everyone on here that most designs are bland, ugly, or both. I actually think it's ALWAYS been this way though - most designs are crap, some are good, some are pretty timeless, but boy they are few.
One thing in car makers defence is the massive pressure they've been put under but safety zealots and soccer moms scared by the 5:30 news, Dateline, and 60 minutes that their vehicles are evil baby killers.
Fitting in a dozen airbags, computers, hydraulic actuators and motors, impact beams, knee bolsters, etc., and making sure bumpers and hoods fit stupid European pedestrian endangerment laws isn't easy but car makers have had to be pre-occupied with it. It doesn't totally excuse fugly cars but design is under a lot of constraints.
But there's still some good designs out there. Some I like:
New Lexus IS
Nissan 350Z.
Infiniti M.
Infiniti G35 coupe and sedan
Audi A3,A4,A6,A8 (yes I think they all look good, even despite the gaudy grilles)
Mercedes E class
Ford Mustang (yes it's retro but they did a great job - mmarshall I know you think the interior is cheap but I checked it out, didn't think it was that bad especially considering the price point, and as the ads go, you hear the rumble of the GT's exhausts and you don't care about the interior )
Anything Aston Martin makes
New Chevy Tahoe (saw one on the road - wow, very nice)
Acura RL (what can I say, I like it, except for the awful wheels)
Honda Civic coupe
Anything Bentley makes As I mentioned in another thread, I recently took a long look over a new Continental Flying Spur (4 door GT basically) and it was stunning. It even had better stock rims than the one in this pic.
I'm with you and most everyone on here that most designs are bland, ugly, or both. I actually think it's ALWAYS been this way though - most designs are crap, some are good, some are pretty timeless, but boy they are few.
One thing in car makers defence is the massive pressure they've been put under but safety zealots and soccer moms scared by the 5:30 news, Dateline, and 60 minutes that their vehicles are evil baby killers.
Fitting in a dozen airbags, computers, hydraulic actuators and motors, impact beams, knee bolsters, etc., and making sure bumpers and hoods fit stupid European pedestrian endangerment laws isn't easy but car makers have had to be pre-occupied with it. It doesn't totally excuse fugly cars but design is under a lot of constraints.
But there's still some good designs out there. Some I like:
New Lexus IS
Nissan 350Z.
Infiniti M.
Infiniti G35 coupe and sedan
Audi A3,A4,A6,A8 (yes I think they all look good, even despite the gaudy grilles)
Mercedes E class
Ford Mustang (yes it's retro but they did a great job - mmarshall I know you think the interior is cheap but I checked it out, didn't think it was that bad especially considering the price point, and as the ads go, you hear the rumble of the GT's exhausts and you don't care about the interior
)Anything Aston Martin makes
New Chevy Tahoe (saw one on the road - wow, very nice)
Acura RL (what can I say, I like it, except for the awful wheels)
Honda Civic coupe
Anything Bentley makes
As I mentioned in another thread, I recently took a long look over a new Continental Flying Spur (4 door GT basically) and it was stunning. It even had better stock rims than the one in this pic.Great points. Which brings me to another issue, the increase in size and weight of these cars. The new Camry is HUGE, bigger than a GS for instance. The mini cooper might not be a mini soon
Weight. A M6 weighs 3800lbs, a M45 4100 lbs, hell the IS 350 weighs 3500 lbs and its a small car. Just a few examples of weight.
Originally Posted by picus
I like radios with ***** too. 
I predict the current crop of BMW's will have some of the best re-sale of any BMWs, so while I mostly agree with Rons posts (I think they're great posts, btw), I disagree that they will be undesirable.
I predict the current crop of BMW's will have some of the best re-sale of any BMWs, so while I mostly agree with Rons posts (I think they're great posts, btw), I disagree that they will be undesirable.
BMWs have traditionally held very high resale. 
06-27-06, 09:02 PM
#62
Lexus Fanatic
iTrader: (20)
About weight... again all that safety stuff isn't light. And due to wonderfully quiet vehicles from Toyota the market has shifted to adding more and more sound deadening material. Then there's bigger rims and tires. And pushrods may be very old tech, but the engine block is TINY on them for the displacement compared to overhead cams, variable valve timing, etc. And how about speakers? Cheap cars used to have 2 speakers. Does ANY car have only 2 speakers? Mid-range cars may have 5, 6, 7. And that means a beefier heavier amp than in the past.
How come most cars seem to come with moon roofs now? They're HEAVY, and I hate them, but try getting many vehicles without one.
Glass? It's thicker. And heavier. Mirrors? They're bigger. They ALL motorized now. Many have heating elements. Oh and how many cars have wind up windows? Er, almost none? And power seats? I actually don't mind manual seats. Electric windows though are definitely nice.
Then there's hefty large LCD screens. Visor mirrors. ...
All these things add up.
Now '60s and '70s cars were large to enormous and VERY VERY heavy given how little equipment many of them had so it's all relative, but certainly in the past 10 years, the amount of 'stuff' in a car has gone WAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAY up.
How come most cars seem to come with moon roofs now? They're HEAVY, and I hate them, but try getting many vehicles without one.
Glass? It's thicker. And heavier. Mirrors? They're bigger. They ALL motorized now. Many have heating elements. Oh and how many cars have wind up windows?
Er, almost none? And power seats? I actually don't mind manual seats. Electric windows though are definitely nice.Then there's hefty large LCD screens. Visor mirrors. ...
All these things add up.
Now '60s and '70s cars were large to enormous and VERY VERY heavy given how little equipment many of them had so it's all relative, but certainly in the past 10 years, the amount of 'stuff' in a car has gone WAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAY up.
06-28-06, 01:33 AM
#63
The amount of stuff has gone way up due in part to decreasing levels of tolerance (which, I guess, can be attributed to the invention of Lexus :P ). People will not stand for a loud car, people look for initial quality, whether it be the thickness and softness of a dashboard or the way a door in the center console opens and closes. And all that adds weight. Darn you, Lexus!
But seriously, back on subject to the design stuff.
But seriously, back on subject to the design stuff.
06-28-06, 09:44 AM
#64
Lexus Fanatic
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: California
Posts: 6,084
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Originally Posted by SoCalSC4
Great post! It's funny you mention ergonomics (or lack thereof). Design is more than exterior aesthetics; it how you interface with the car and the tactile feel of the controls.
I've been driving a new 750iL the last few days. The car looks pretty sharp with its' 22" wheels and Sport package- it certainly has presence on the road and gets looks from other drivers.
There are a few things that have frustrated me about it, though. iDrive. You really need a 15 minute primer to figure out how to work this thing. When I first got in the car, the A/C and the radio were both on full-blast. Within a few seconds, I arranged to lower the radio volume through the steering wheel controls (the icons on the steering wheel aren't actually very intuitive, it turns out... I ended up changing the station at first) and I did figure out how to turn the noisy jet engine HVAC fan down to a tolerable and quiet speed via the manual controls on the dash.
For two days I drove the car choosing not to interface with the NAV system or do anything but listen to the radio (I can work part of this with the steering wheel). Today, I decided to just sit in the car (for a quite a few minutes) to familiarize myself with the iDrive controls. I'm a pretty smart guy, but it does take some getting used to. Frankly, it's not that easy to manipulate some of the higher functions while driving down the road- one must spend too much time staring at the display screen.
My other gripes;
-The Start/Stop button is hidden behind the steering wheel.
-The Shift control is pretty cool, but twice I have hit the lower lever arm and washed the windshield instead of putting the car in/out of gear. Embarassing... and so much for a clean car.
-The red dash lights. I find these difficult to focus on at night. I am sure that somewhere BMW has written white papers explaining why red is the best color for dash lights, but I can't stand it. This would be a deal breaker if I was in the market for a car like this.
-The seat controls are on the center console and not as intuitive as I would have expected.
-There are two Chicket-sized silver rectangular buttons at 10:00 and 2:00 on the steering wheel. I have no idea what these do.
It's the age-old thing; nobody wants 247 buttons on their dash... but a few is okay, isn't it? Heck, I actually like radios that have ***** on them for volume control. Am I old school?
I've been driving a new 750iL the last few days. The car looks pretty sharp with its' 22" wheels and Sport package- it certainly has presence on the road and gets looks from other drivers.
There are a few things that have frustrated me about it, though. iDrive. You really need a 15 minute primer to figure out how to work this thing. When I first got in the car, the A/C and the radio were both on full-blast. Within a few seconds, I arranged to lower the radio volume through the steering wheel controls (the icons on the steering wheel aren't actually very intuitive, it turns out... I ended up changing the station at first) and I did figure out how to turn the noisy jet engine HVAC fan down to a tolerable and quiet speed via the manual controls on the dash.
For two days I drove the car choosing not to interface with the NAV system or do anything but listen to the radio (I can work part of this with the steering wheel). Today, I decided to just sit in the car (for a quite a few minutes) to familiarize myself with the iDrive controls. I'm a pretty smart guy, but it does take some getting used to. Frankly, it's not that easy to manipulate some of the higher functions while driving down the road- one must spend too much time staring at the display screen.
My other gripes;
-The Start/Stop button is hidden behind the steering wheel.
-The Shift control is pretty cool, but twice I have hit the lower lever arm and washed the windshield instead of putting the car in/out of gear. Embarassing... and so much for a clean car.
-The red dash lights. I find these difficult to focus on at night. I am sure that somewhere BMW has written white papers explaining why red is the best color for dash lights, but I can't stand it. This would be a deal breaker if I was in the market for a car like this.
-The seat controls are on the center console and not as intuitive as I would have expected.
-There are two Chicket-sized silver rectangular buttons at 10:00 and 2:00 on the steering wheel. I have no idea what these do.
It's the age-old thing; nobody wants 247 buttons on their dash... but a few is okay, isn't it? Heck, I actually like radios that have ***** on them for volume control. Am I old school?
06-28-06, 09:49 AM
#65
Lexus Fanatic
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: California
Posts: 6,084
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Originally Posted by picus
I like radios with ***** too.
I predict the current crop of BMW's will have some of the best re-sale of any BMWs, so while I mostly agree with Rons posts (I think they're great posts, btw), I disagree that they will be undesirable.
I predict the current crop of BMW's will have some of the best re-sale of any BMWs, so while I mostly agree with Rons posts (I think they're great posts, btw), I disagree that they will be undesirable.
06-28-06, 10:01 AM
#66
Lexus Fanatic
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: California
Posts: 6,084
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Originally Posted by bitkahuna
About weight... again all that safety stuff isn't light. And due to wonderfully quiet vehicles from Toyota the market has shifted to adding more and more sound deadening material. Then there's bigger rims and tires. And pushrods may be very old tech, but the engine block is TINY on them for the displacement compared to overhead cams, variable valve timing, etc. And how about speakers? Cheap cars used to have 2 speakers. Does ANY car have only 2 speakers? Mid-range cars may have 5, 6, 7. And that means a beefier heavier amp than in the past.
How come most cars seem to come with moon roofs now? They're HEAVY, and I hate them, but try getting many vehicles without one.
Glass? It's thicker. And heavier. Mirrors? They're bigger. They ALL motorized now. Many have heating elements. Oh and how many cars have wind up windows? Er, almost none? And power seats? I actually don't mind manual seats. Electric windows though are definitely nice.
Then there's hefty large LCD screens. Visor mirrors. ...
All these things add up.
Now '60s and '70s cars were large to enormous and VERY VERY heavy given how little equipment many of them had so it's all relative, but certainly in the past 10 years, the amount of 'stuff' in a car has gone WAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAY up.
How come most cars seem to come with moon roofs now? They're HEAVY, and I hate them, but try getting many vehicles without one.
Glass? It's thicker. And heavier. Mirrors? They're bigger. They ALL motorized now. Many have heating elements. Oh and how many cars have wind up windows?
Er, almost none? And power seats? I actually don't mind manual seats. Electric windows though are definitely nice.Then there's hefty large LCD screens. Visor mirrors. ...
All these things add up.
Now '60s and '70s cars were large to enormous and VERY VERY heavy given how little equipment many of them had so it's all relative, but certainly in the past 10 years, the amount of 'stuff' in a car has gone WAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAY up.
06-28-06, 10:45 AM
#67
Lexus Fanatic
Originally Posted by bitkahuna
About weight... again all that safety stuff isn't light. And due to wonderfully quiet vehicles from Toyota the market has shifted to adding more and more sound deadening material. Then there's bigger rims and tires. And pushrods may be very old tech, but the engine block is TINY on them for the displacement compared to overhead cams, variable valve timing, etc. And how about speakers? Cheap cars used to have 2 speakers. Does ANY car have only 2 speakers? Mid-range cars may have 5, 6, 7. And that means a beefier heavier amp than in the past.
How come most cars seem to come with moon roofs now? They're HEAVY, and I hate them, but try getting many vehicles without one.
Glass? It's thicker. And heavier. Mirrors? They're bigger. They ALL motorized now. Many have heating elements. Oh and how many cars have wind up windows? Er, almost none? And power seats? I actually don't mind manual seats. Electric windows though are definitely nice.
Then there's hefty large LCD screens. Visor mirrors. ...
All these things add up.
Now '60s and '70s cars were large to enormous and VERY VERY heavy given how little equipment many of them had so it's all relative, but certainly in the past 10 years, the amount of 'stuff' in a car has gone WAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAY up.
How come most cars seem to come with moon roofs now? They're HEAVY, and I hate them, but try getting many vehicles without one.
Glass? It's thicker. And heavier. Mirrors? They're bigger. They ALL motorized now. Many have heating elements. Oh and how many cars have wind up windows?
Er, almost none? And power seats? I actually don't mind manual seats. Electric windows though are definitely nice.Then there's hefty large LCD screens. Visor mirrors. ...
All these things add up.
Now '60s and '70s cars were large to enormous and VERY VERY heavy given how little equipment many of them had so it's all relative, but certainly in the past 10 years, the amount of 'stuff' in a car has gone WAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAY up.
Sheet metal has also gotten thinner. 30-40 years ago you could sit on a fender and not have the metal buckle. Try that today........especially someone my size........and that body panel will look like moon craters.
06-28-06, 12:52 PM
#68
Lexus Fanatic
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: California
Posts: 6,084
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Originally Posted by bitkahuna
1SICK - hilarious first few posts in this thread - LMAO
I'm with you and most everyone on here that most designs are bland, ugly, or both. I actually think it's ALWAYS been this way though - most designs are crap, some are good, some are pretty timeless, but boy they are few.
One thing in car makers defence is the massive pressure they've been put under but safety zealots and soccer moms scared by the 5:30 news, Dateline, and 60 minutes that their vehicles are evil baby killers.
Fitting in a dozen airbags, computers, hydraulic actuators and motors, impact beams, knee bolsters, etc., and making sure bumpers and hoods fit stupid European pedestrian endangerment laws isn't easy but car makers have had to be pre-occupied with it. It doesn't totally excuse fugly cars but design is under a lot of constraints.
But there's still some good designs out there. Some I like:
New Lexus IS
Nissan 350Z.
Infiniti M.
Infiniti G35 coupe and sedan
Audi A3,A4,A6,A8 (yes I think they all look good, even despite the gaudy grilles)
Mercedes E class
Ford Mustang (yes it's retro but they did a great job - mmarshall I know you think the interior is cheap but I checked it out, didn't think it was that bad especially considering the price point, and as the ads go, you hear the rumble of the GT's exhausts and you don't care about the interior )
Anything Aston Martin makes
New Chevy Tahoe (saw one on the road - wow, very nice)
Acura RL (what can I say, I like it, except for the awful wheels)
Honda Civic coupe
Anything Bentley makes As I mentioned in another thread, I recently took a long look over a new Continental Flying Spur (4 door GT basically) and it was stunning. It even had better stock rims than the one in this pic.
I'm with you and most everyone on here that most designs are bland, ugly, or both. I actually think it's ALWAYS been this way though - most designs are crap, some are good, some are pretty timeless, but boy they are few.
One thing in car makers defence is the massive pressure they've been put under but safety zealots and soccer moms scared by the 5:30 news, Dateline, and 60 minutes that their vehicles are evil baby killers.
Fitting in a dozen airbags, computers, hydraulic actuators and motors, impact beams, knee bolsters, etc., and making sure bumpers and hoods fit stupid European pedestrian endangerment laws isn't easy but car makers have had to be pre-occupied with it. It doesn't totally excuse fugly cars but design is under a lot of constraints.
But there's still some good designs out there. Some I like:
New Lexus IS
Nissan 350Z.
Infiniti M.
Infiniti G35 coupe and sedan
Audi A3,A4,A6,A8 (yes I think they all look good, even despite the gaudy grilles)
Mercedes E class
Ford Mustang (yes it's retro but they did a great job - mmarshall I know you think the interior is cheap but I checked it out, didn't think it was that bad especially considering the price point, and as the ads go, you hear the rumble of the GT's exhausts and you don't care about the interior
)Anything Aston Martin makes
New Chevy Tahoe (saw one on the road - wow, very nice)
Acura RL (what can I say, I like it, except for the awful wheels)
Honda Civic coupe
Anything Bentley makes
As I mentioned in another thread, I recently took a long look over a new Continental Flying Spur (4 door GT basically) and it was stunning. It even had better stock rims than the one in this pic.PS. The weight and dimension aspect robbing aside, it wouldn't bother me to have sun/moon roofs become non standard, I rarely use it and would prefer to get rid of the weight, potential noise, and cost but it is just impossible to do.
06-28-06, 08:23 PM
#69
Guest
Posts: n/a
Does everyone think they are now orginal with the droopy headlight look? I think the Dodge Ram had that back 5 years ago, with the headlight cut into the bumper. It looks like your no offense, retarted or "slow"
I can't think of anymore, can yall? Cars where the headlight juts into the bumper.
I can't think of anymore, can yall? Cars where the headlight juts into the bumper.
06-28-06, 09:39 PM
#70
Lexus Fanatic
iTrader: (20)
I still think the newest Passat is a really nice looking car.
06-28-06, 10:08 PM
#71
Guest
Posts: n/a
My rant is over. Going to let this one die.
THANKS EVERYONE!
THANKS EVERYONE!
Thread
Thread Starter
Forum
Replies
Last Post
LexFather
Car Chat
39
04-14-08 06:30 AM
LexFather
Car Chat
9
05-15-06 10:58 PM
PERRYinLA
Car Chat
62
10-08-05 11:31 AM