June 2006 Vehicle Sales
07-14-06, 08:47 PM
#151
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Originally Posted by marshmallo
I can't believe how much hatred there is for the 3GS on an Lexus
forum
Lexus sold 8,262 GS's in 2005.
They sold about 2200 3GS's last month against much tougher competition
at a much higher sticker price. Failure? IMHO the RL is a failure. Another
sub 1000 unit month for Acura and they can't give the thing away for 40K.
forum
Lexus sold 8,262 GS's in 2005.
They sold about 2200 3GS's last month against much tougher competition
at a much higher sticker price. Failure? IMHO the RL is a failure. Another
sub 1000 unit month for Acura and they can't give the thing away for 40K.
07-15-06, 07:35 AM
#152
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Originally Posted by marshmallo
I can't believe how much hatred there is for the 3GS on an Lexus
forum
Lexus sold 8,262 GS's in 2005.
They sold about 2200 3GS's last month against much tougher competition
at a much higher sticker price. Failure? IMHO the RL is a failure. Another
sub 1000 unit month for Acura and they can't give the thing away for 40K.
forum
Lexus sold 8,262 GS's in 2005.
They sold about 2200 3GS's last month against much tougher competition
at a much higher sticker price. Failure? IMHO the RL is a failure. Another
sub 1000 unit month for Acura and they can't give the thing away for 40K.
Originally Posted by bitkahuna
A rifle shot into the bulls-eye. 
07-15-06, 10:31 AM
#153
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Originally Posted by marshmallo
I can't believe how much hatred there is for the 3GS on an Lexus
forum
Lexus sold 8,262 GS's in 2005.
They sold about 2200 3GS's last month against much tougher competition
at a much higher sticker price. Failure? IMHO the RL is a failure. Another
sub 1000 unit month for Acura and they can't give the thing away for 40K.
forum
Lexus sold 8,262 GS's in 2005.
They sold about 2200 3GS's last month against much tougher competition
at a much higher sticker price. Failure? IMHO the RL is a failure. Another
sub 1000 unit month for Acura and they can't give the thing away for 40K.
From that respect on such a new model I go back to saying that yes I do think it is a disappointment. When I bought my GS430 in 2k1 it was really the top performance model for Lexus and very competitive if not superior to the competition. Now, for the performance enthusiast, it is not really on my list to look at and I truly get the feeling that Lexus has placed its performance emphasis on the IS. Maybe that's a good thing. I have seen alternative reports on the IS getting a 5l, never mentioned for the GS, but I have also seen reports that it will get the 4.6 if it ever is put in production. And a folding hardtop is rumored as well. And that to me looks like Lexus is not going to spend a lot of money on the GS. And yes, as I said, that does disappoint me.
07-16-06, 12:24 AM
#154
Lexus Test Driver
IMO when Infiniti's sales #s for the M35/45 are on the same level as the GS, that means the GS is a failure. Infiniti has much lower prestige and less dealerships nationwide, yet it still matches the GS in sales.
Basically Lexus didnt blow anyone away with the new GS in either styling or performance. The 2nd gen did it in both categories. The new engine should help, but a damn SPORTS package would really improve this car.
The RL is just a HUGE failure. Basically it looks like 50k Accord that u can get for half the price without the super duper AWD at ur local Honda dealer. Seriously if Acura gave the RL some type of "family" styling that build on the TL and priced it around the 40-42k range, it would of been a success.
Basically Lexus didnt blow anyone away with the new GS in either styling or performance. The 2nd gen did it in both categories. The new engine should help, but a damn SPORTS package would really improve this car.
The RL is just a HUGE failure. Basically it looks like 50k Accord that u can get for half the price without the super duper AWD at ur local Honda dealer. Seriously if Acura gave the RL some type of "family" styling that build on the TL and priced it around the 40-42k range, it would of been a success.
07-16-06, 07:49 AM
#155
Originally Posted by RNM GS3
IMO when Infiniti's sales #s for the M35/45 are on the same level as the GS, that means the GS is a failure.
car were Lexus or BMW it would easily sell 3K+ units a month. They are
taking away sales from Lexus because they did a great job with this version
of the M. Remember that the old M was selling about as well as the
Phaeton (maybe worse).
07-19-06, 07:19 AM
#156
GS sales are slow because of an impending and significant engine upgrade same with the LS, an impending total redesign is coming and its been know for many months so far. Slow GS sales are great now for buyers who dont care for the new upgraded engine and can get a heavy discount right now
07-25-06, 06:17 PM
#157
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Originally Posted by jrock65
I don't think that it's a given that the 380 hp GS460 will automatically outaccelerate the 360 hp 550i. We won't really know until there are some head to head tests on the pavement.
The 306 hp GS350 will surely outaccelerate the 255 hp 530i, but expect the 300 hp / 300 torque 535i soon.
The 306 hp GS350 will surely outaccelerate the 255 hp 530i, but expect the 300 hp / 300 torque 535i soon.
We don't know what tranny the GS460 will get, because if it's the 8 speed ... then it will just be another advantage for the GS.
The GS450h is a tick slower than the 550i in straight line speed, and fairly close in handling numbers too.
Don't forget that the GS460 will become the flagship when it comes out, so it would make sense for it to outperform the GS450h.
07-25-06, 06:20 PM
#158
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Originally Posted by 1SICKLEX
I think BMW can afford to be arrogant b/c Lexus, heck NO ONE offers a manual in the mid size class but BMW. BMW in Europe offers a range of choices for the 5 Lexus can only dream about.
If Lexus is serious about this class, they need a wagon, more engine choices (not sure WHY they should get rid of the 300, keep it as a value leader) and more variety.
True, that is NOT the traditonal Lexus or Japanese way but it is the way of this class.
Hell in Europe, you can get an A6 long wheelbase!
If Lexus is serious about this class, they need a wagon, more engine choices (not sure WHY they should get rid of the 300, keep it as a value leader) and more variety.
True, that is NOT the traditonal Lexus or Japanese way but it is the way of this class.
Hell in Europe, you can get an A6 long wheelbase!
07-25-06, 06:25 PM
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Originally Posted by doug_999
I hate to remind you that the 282hp 540 was consistenly faster than the 300hp GS400/430. But that's besides the point....
I am however curious about BMW's arrogant mistakes of the past. Can you elaborate on these?
I am however curious about BMW's arrogant mistakes of the past. Can you elaborate on these?
And even though this is besides the point
, from the looks of things the 335i sedan will not be any faster than the IS350 in acceleration, despite having better numbers on paper. BMW, as well as other German makers denounced Lexus when the first LS came out and did not take them seriously. BMW also, in their recent ad campaign, poked fun indirectly at Lexus, saying how BMW is one of the only companies that is "independent" and that doesn't stifle creativity. That ad campaign in fact was a great example of BMW's arrogance, in that they believe they are above most other automakers, Toyota included.
07-25-06, 06:41 PM
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Originally Posted by chiawei
Are you sure about this?
1. 2GR-FSE was introduced in 2005 in Japan on the Crown Athlete around same time the 06 GS went on sale. Moreover, there was already a 3.0L version of this V6 that debuted in 2003. This was a marketing plot by Lexus to delay introduction of 3.5L V6. Which Toyota admitted it did this to keep GS fresh. You can google this as well.
2. I believe Toyota did mentioned that they benchmarked 5 series with the 3GS. You can google this information.
Simply put, GS failed in its mission. The infiniti has never challenged in this segment until the M35/45 arrived. Mercedes is hanging on 2nd place with huge discount (which means you can actually buy a corresponding E for roughly the same price as GS). GS is also being killed on this.
GS competes very well with E-class. However, lexus does not have the brand image of mercedes. Even though GS is a better car and has much better quality, it has difficult time getting E-class customer when DCX is bascially selling W211 at below cost.
GS can't compete with likes of Audi/BMW/M on the vehicle dynamics. That's why GS didn't do anything to reduce BMW's share. E60 is gaining simply because customer in this segment likes it better. When you are spending over $55k for a car, majority of customer want a car that is fun to drive rather than a boring never break down appliance.
GS main competitor is the E-class. But with DCX giving them away, GS has no chance either.
I seriously doubt that the 07 GS would have sustainable increase in share in this segment.
The 5 is due for a refresh with another round of engine upgrade. The W211 just got refreshed along with new engines. There really isn't anything else that the 07 GS has really post a threat to anyone. The 3.5V6 has 300HP, so what. By this time next year, everyone will have a V6 close to 300HP in this segment. Same holds true with the V8 as well.
1. 2GR-FSE was introduced in 2005 in Japan on the Crown Athlete around same time the 06 GS went on sale. Moreover, there was already a 3.0L version of this V6 that debuted in 2003. This was a marketing plot by Lexus to delay introduction of 3.5L V6. Which Toyota admitted it did this to keep GS fresh. You can google this as well.
2. I believe Toyota did mentioned that they benchmarked 5 series with the 3GS. You can google this information.
Simply put, GS failed in its mission. The infiniti has never challenged in this segment until the M35/45 arrived. Mercedes is hanging on 2nd place with huge discount (which means you can actually buy a corresponding E for roughly the same price as GS). GS is also being killed on this.
GS competes very well with E-class. However, lexus does not have the brand image of mercedes. Even though GS is a better car and has much better quality, it has difficult time getting E-class customer when DCX is bascially selling W211 at below cost.
GS can't compete with likes of Audi/BMW/M on the vehicle dynamics. That's why GS didn't do anything to reduce BMW's share. E60 is gaining simply because customer in this segment likes it better. When you are spending over $55k for a car, majority of customer want a car that is fun to drive rather than a boring never break down appliance.
GS main competitor is the E-class. But with DCX giving them away, GS has no chance either.
I seriously doubt that the 07 GS would have sustainable increase in share in this segment.
The 5 is due for a refresh with another round of engine upgrade. The W211 just got refreshed along with new engines. There really isn't anything else that the 07 GS has really post a threat to anyone. The 3.5V6 has 300HP, so what. By this time next year, everyone will have a V6 close to 300HP in this segment. Same holds true with the V8 as well.
2. Benchmarked what specifically about the 5? I did some quick google shots and could not find much, but since you brought this point up, feel free to post some info/links.
GS failed in it's mission? And what was it's mission? Can you provide me a direct quote from Lexus or Toyota officials where they explain the GS's mission? The only thing Toyota has provided in terms of what it wished for the GS was the annual sales goal, and the GS reached that for 2005. We will see how it does for 2006 annual sales.
By your flawed logic, GS failed. By Toyota's own goal, the GS so far has succeeded.
The GS350 will have a 303HP V6 ... so what? The E350 from Benz will have a 292HP V6, which is 11HP lower than the GS350. Not a huge difference, but enough for bragging rights. The 2007 G35 (which does not even compete with the GS) will get a 306HP V6, which only ties the IS350's V6. As for the Infiniti M, we do not know when the M35 will get the 300+HP VQ V6. There have been no rumours or any reports about a new Infiniti V8, so the M45 will be stuck at 325HP, while the GS460 will far exceed it with around 380HP.
In fact, for V6 sports sedans, no competitor currently has a more powerful V6 than the 2GR-FSE in terms of HP.
The E550 will have a nice V8, but the GS460 will have bragging rights with superior fuel economy, and potentially the bragging rights of an 8 speed auto. The GS460 will also have superior power numbers to the 550i.
07-25-06, 06:49 PM
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Originally Posted by chiawei
G35 is in its last year. People were already waiting for the new G to arrive. To say that IS350 single hand caused G35 to drop is a overreach. Everone already knew for almost a year that G is due for a new redesign.
I seriously doubt with the new engines GS would impact M that much. M and GS aimed at much different crowd. People who shop M and BMW are looking more than a luxurious appliance. Unless GS improved its vehicle dynamics, it will not have huge impact on either M or E60. Simply put, the GS and M appeals to different crowd.
What remain to be seen is the new engine GS will do against the new engined W211. So far W211 has been taking GS to the cleaner due to DCX agressive pricing. GS sales hinges more on what W211 does on the market rather than E60/M. When DCX went into agressive price cutting mode, the GS sales started to drop.
I seriously doubt with the new engines GS would impact M that much. M and GS aimed at much different crowd. People who shop M and BMW are looking more than a luxurious appliance. Unless GS improved its vehicle dynamics, it will not have huge impact on either M or E60. Simply put, the GS and M appeals to different crowd.
What remain to be seen is the new engine GS will do against the new engined W211. So far W211 has been taking GS to the cleaner due to DCX agressive pricing. GS sales hinges more on what W211 does on the market rather than E60/M. When DCX went into agressive price cutting mode, the GS sales started to drop.
M and GS *are* cross-shopped, because they are both Japanese midsize sports sedans. It's much more likely that the E Class and 5 Series are cross-shopped by the same group, than it is the 5 Series and M Class being cross-shopped.
2007 IS will have VDIM/VSC defeat switch. New LS is also rumoured to have this switch. Very likely 2007 GS will have this switch, and the GS could very well get the active stabilizer suspension from the GS450h. These two things would certainly improve vehicle dynamics, and combined with the new engines the GS is getting, would make the GS very competitive.
07-25-06, 06:50 PM
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Originally Posted by marshmallo
I can't believe how much hatred there is for the 3GS on an Lexus
forum
Lexus sold 8,262 GS's in 2005.
They sold about 2200 3GS's last month against much tougher competition
at a much higher sticker price. Failure? IMHO the RL is a failure. Another
sub 1000 unit month for Acura and they can't give the thing away for 40K.
forum
Lexus sold 8,262 GS's in 2005.
They sold about 2200 3GS's last month against much tougher competition
at a much higher sticker price. Failure? IMHO the RL is a failure. Another
sub 1000 unit month for Acura and they can't give the thing away for 40K.
07-25-06, 06:52 PM
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Originally Posted by 1SICKLEX
SOme people are so eager to see Lexus fail or falter, that is why
07-25-06, 06:57 PM
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Originally Posted by RON430
Hatred? Definitely a misunderstanding. Disappointment due to possibly too high a set of expections? Defiitely, without misunderstanding. I stopped by my dealer on Friday to get oil filters for changes this weekend and looked at a GS430. With about three minutes of talking to the salesman I was told I could take $5K off the sticker if I was interested. Now some of you will say of course, that is because the 460 is coming. I do not agree. That motor will make biggest impact on performance Lexus GS buyers and in reality, I don't think there are that many of those. So the 460 might make a blip in sales but I expect you will be able to get one at a healthy discount very quickly.
From that respect on such a new model I go back to saying that yes I do think it is a disappointment. When I bought my GS430 in 2k1 it was really the top performance model for Lexus and very competitive if not superior to the competition. Now, for the performance enthusiast, it is not really on my list to look at and I truly get the feeling that Lexus has placed its performance emphasis on the IS. Maybe that's a good thing. I have seen alternative reports on the IS getting a 5l, never mentioned for the GS, but I have also seen reports that it will get the 4.6 if it ever is put in production. And a folding hardtop is rumored as well. And that to me looks like Lexus is not going to spend a lot of money on the GS. And yes, as I said, that does disappoint me.
From that respect on such a new model I go back to saying that yes I do think it is a disappointment. When I bought my GS430 in 2k1 it was really the top performance model for Lexus and very competitive if not superior to the competition. Now, for the performance enthusiast, it is not really on my list to look at and I truly get the feeling that Lexus has placed its performance emphasis on the IS. Maybe that's a good thing. I have seen alternative reports on the IS getting a 5l, never mentioned for the GS, but I have also seen reports that it will get the 4.6 if it ever is put in production. And a folding hardtop is rumored as well. And that to me looks like Lexus is not going to spend a lot of money on the GS. And yes, as I said, that does disappoint me.
GS430 production has STOPPED. Lexus has stopped building the GS430 for at least a few months now. Dealers right now have a very limited number of GS430s because the production end, and they are eagerly willing to sell these vehicles.
Some of you it seems wish to remain ignorant, and to believe, in your own mind, that the GS is a failure and a dissapointment, despite all the facts and evidence to the contrary, that the GS will improve, and that the 3GS came out the way it was (which was quite uncompetitive) due to various reasons.
07-25-06, 06:58 PM
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Originally Posted by RNM GS3
IMO when Infiniti's sales #s for the M35/45 are on the same level as the GS, that means the GS is a failure. Infiniti has much lower prestige and less dealerships nationwide, yet it still matches the GS in sales.
Basically Lexus didnt blow anyone away with the new GS in either styling or performance. The 2nd gen did it in both categories. The new engine should help, but a damn SPORTS package would really improve this car.
The RL is just a HUGE failure. Basically it looks like 50k Accord that u can get for half the price without the super duper AWD at ur local Honda dealer. Seriously if Acura gave the RL some type of "family" styling that build on the TL and priced it around the 40-42k range, it would of been a success.
Basically Lexus didnt blow anyone away with the new GS in either styling or performance. The 2nd gen did it in both categories. The new engine should help, but a damn SPORTS package would really improve this car.
The RL is just a HUGE failure. Basically it looks like 50k Accord that u can get for half the price without the super duper AWD at ur local Honda dealer. Seriously if Acura gave the RL some type of "family" styling that build on the TL and priced it around the 40-42k range, it would of been a success.