doug_999

Honda is limited by capacity. The Fit is a superior car and given the capacity would crush the Yaris.

edit: check that, the Accord is a superior car (per all mags and CR), and does not outsell the Camry....hmmm, maybe fleet sales are the kicker here?

spwolf

compared to M45/35 sales, they are actually better. GS is best sold japanese luxury mid-size vehicle...
They have been holding steady at some 2,200-2,400 per month for a while now.

spwolf

sorry bro, that is not that true - just an PR. Fit is an old vehicle, that is down on sales in most of the world due to it being old... same as Corolla for example. The difference is that Corolla is selling better than ever in NA (and they can raise production for NA since demand in rest of the world is down), while Honda does not have enough "Fits"? Thats just nonsense.

Yaris outsells Fit in Europe, Japan and USA, with not enough capacity to produce more. Fit sales are declining, and yet they dont have capacity to build them anymore? What are they building? Since their sales are not raising for sure...

bitkahuna

iTrader: (20)

Quick look at Lexus #'s..

• IS/ES account for 76.4% of Lexus car sales.
• RX accounts for 81.5% of Lexus 'light truck' sales.
• IS/ES/RX alone account for 79% of Lexus sales.

That leaves 5 models I think (GS,SC,LS,GX,LX?) splitting the other 21% of sales.

Lexus may continue to win highest selling luxury line awards but their distribution is way skewed to just 3 models. It's great for those 3 models but it must be disappointing lokoing at sales of the rest.

The new GS, in reviews, specs, and sales, doesn't really come close to the E class or 5 series. GS300 sales are similar to Audi A6 at this point. The GS450h is unique, but a small niche product for the uber green techie car fan.

The LS, in reviews, specs, and sales, also doesn't come close to the S class (and probably the 7 series, haven't looked). Hopefully the LS460 will make more 'wow' impact in the market, because Lexus won't really be taken seriously as a luxury brand if its main markets are the ES and RX. I think Lexus simply must put forth a credible competitor to the S-class and 7 series. The LS460 and especially the LS600h look very good - when are they coming out again?

spwolf

p.s. Yaris is technically way superior than Fit. It is lighter, faster, brakes better, gets better mpg and is safer. Of course, proper Yaris to compare to fit would be 5 door hatch, witch you dont get in the US for it would compete with xA.

Toyota made it plush for US market since it has Scions here for younger population, and they scored big time, if you check the sales. Sure mags dont like it, but who cares?

On the other hand, you are saying that Honda could not produce more than 3,000 Fits for June? Thats simply funny, considering their worldwide production is probably around 500,000-600,000 per year, and they have pretty big incentives in Europe trying to move them off the lots (Yaris outsells Fit in Europe 3.5x1, and we are talking about big numbers here - Toyota will sell around 300,000 Yarii in Europe alone this year).

Honda is simply doing what Scion is doing, limiting the supply slightly to make the vehicle cooler. Scions have lowest time spent on the lot, despite Toyota having enough capacity to build both xA and xB.
It is not like Fit is some state of the art technology so they cant produce more - it is an 4 yr old vehicle now.

spwolf

What in the world are you talking about?

Lets compare:
- BMW is more dependant on 3 series than Lexus on any of its cars. 54% of BMW car sales are 3 series.
- 80% of BMW car sales are 3 & 5 series. Which is higher % than Lexus IS&ES.
- BMW is counting on only 2 vehicles for 66% of their sales.

I find it curious that you find RX outselling both X3 and X5, combined, by 2.5x as an bad thing.

- LS has outsold S class for 3 years in the US, until new S arrived. More impact on the market? LOL.

What it comes down to, is that Lexus is the most sold Luxury brand in the US, it has highest margin to the dealers, happiest customers, best quality, lowest incentives (4x less than BMW as reported Feb/March 2006), and Toyota is most profitable manufacturer in the world.

But yes, it really sucks how good those RX's are selling!!! :-)

doug_999

Sorry bro, it is true on both parts - all mags rate the Fit higher than the Yaris, and Honda can not make enough of them.

http://news.hspn.com/articles/442/1/...Exceeds-Supply

Honestly, do you really think the 3 and 5 series are two cars? The 3 series is 12 different cars and the 5 series is seven (7) different cars.

Bit's point about the RX is that when it takes a hit, Lexus will take a hit.

xioix

We did this before, taking out fleets for both cars, the Camry is still the sales leader, even with the fleets for the Accord, the Camry still out sells it.

The RX was down for June, yet Lexus was up for June

spwolf

lol... so much for the argument. Its the opinion, lol.

Always the same... What I am saying is that... Yaris outsells the Fit 2x1. Easily. And if Honda cant produce more than 3,000 Fits per month, where their Fit sales in the world have dropped 10%-20%, and their overall sales are stagnating, maybe it is the time to sell Honda stock? Or maybe, just maybe, they simply lower the supply to create the buzz, JUST like Scion has been doing for past 2 years now...

:-).

What would happen if 3 series sales fell? More damage than RX for sure... and RX is now in its 4th year of life, next model coming next year, looks as healty as ever.

In fact, BMW has only 2 strong models, while Lexus has 3... who is more succeptable to market fluctuations? :-).

doug_999

Huh?

Let's see, the 3-series, being 12 different cars, is always being re-done - phased in approach ya know. The sedan (e90) was new last year, the coupe will be new this year and the M3 follows that. Makes it really hard for the entire 12 car line up to take a hit.

The RX has benefited from the hybrid adding 2K plus per month in sales. In addition, the RX350 was just introduced.. Both of these have really helped the sales stay where they are (and truth be told, for $42K, it is a lot of car).

Let's be honest here, if the GS450h had not been introduced even the Infiniti M would be outselling the GS.

Last but not least, the Yaris does well cause people go in looking for a Prius only to find the dealer has only one in stock but has plenty of Yaris that get "almost as good" mileage. Right car at the right time and Toyota has the capacity to make them.

doug_999

My point was that the superior car is not always the sales leader. I would however be curious what the current percentage of Camry sales were to fleets.

The RX was down 3.6%.....

ivanpetrov

first sales lesson:

20% of your products make 80% of your money.

Lexus, bmw, toyota, honda, and mb are all doing exactly what they would like. its many times easier to build 3 really strong sellers that suit most buyers and 6-7 other products for the special buyer. the simplicity of the logistics involved saves millions of dollars. on the other hand you have ford and gm with so many models for the common man that they can't make a penny.

we can't really listen to the mags either. they each have a single focus, usually performance, while buyers look for more. toyota/lexus are never the best reviewed, but consumers still buy them for the strong balance of attributes they have.

3 series has more variants than others, but people buy a 3 because its a 3. you would never see the 325 doing really poorly while the 330x wagon is selling like hotcakes. they're just taking their sales a step further. 80% of 3 sales come from sedans.

LexFather

Cobalt outsells the Civic in June.

Corolla: 37,311
Cobalt: 26,929
Civic: 26,312

Of course YTD is a different story. Just thought it was interesting, since the Civic is all-new.

YTD

Corolla: 197,303
Civic: 165,056
Cobalt: 119,952

LexFather

Gojirra99

Eighteen out of the 39 automakers below are reporting a rise in June sales over the same period last year. The 25.9% drop in sales by General Motors has attracted the most attention so far, but the General's performance, along with FoMoCo falling 6.9% and the Chrysler Group dropping 15%, can largely be attributed to the successful summer sales drive of 2005 that artificially inflated sales during that period. We should expect all three domestic producers to show a drop in sales throughout the summer because of this anomaly.

Toyota, meanwhile, keeps on chugging with a 14.41% increase in sales last month compared to the year prior. Honda was also up, but only negligibly, and Nissan has yet to report.

Mad props go to Suzuki for picking up the pace with a 28% rise in sales last month. Credit for the big jump goes to the new Grand Vitara, the sales of which jumped 606% since last year to 2,514 units thanks to the all-new model. At the other end of the spectrum, Saab sales have been reduced to a trickle, falling 50.2% to just 3,295 units during the month of June. Another note of interest, all of the Germans saw a rise in sales, with Mercedes-Benz gaining the most ground on itself by posting a 14% rise in sales.

Big Winner:
Suzuki28%

Big Loser:
Saab50.2%

Acura-19.4% at 15,107 (June 2005: 18,744)

Audi11.3% at 8,039 (June 2005: 7,209)

BMW3.4% at 24,179 (June 2005: 23,392)

Buick-36.6% at 23,738 (June 2005: 37,446)

Cadillac-21% at 23,265 (June 2005: 29,444)

Chevrolet-25.5% at 243,353 (June 2005: 326,632)

Chrysler-21% at 51,986 (June 2005: 65,594)

Chrysler Group-15% at 185,946 (June 2005: 220,032)

Dodge-11% at 96,485 (June 2005: 107,997)

Ford-7.2% at 226,250 (June 2005: 243,678)

Ford Motor Co -6.9% at 269,404 (June 2005: 289,449)

GM-25.9% at 413,473 (June 2005: 558,092)

GMC-46.5% at 47,604 (June 2005: 88,971)

Honda3.4% at 111,342 (June 2005: 107,672)

Honda America 0% at 126,449 (June 2005: 126,416)

HUMMER-16.2% at 5,661 (June 2005: 6,754)

Infiniti20% at 9,300 (June 2005: 11,623)

Isuzu-8.4% at 1,652 (June 2005: 1,803)

Jaguar-25.2% at 2,160 (June 2005: 2,888)

Jeep-19% at 37,475 (June 2005: 46,441)

Kia1.3% at 27,443 (June 2005: 27,095)

Land Rover12.7% at 3,847 (June 2005: 3,414)

Lexus6.3% at 27,686 (June 2005: 26,043)

Lincoln-11.1% at 9,610 (June 2005: 10,808)

Mazda8% at 23,727 (June 2005: 22,063)

Mercedes-Benz14% at 20,802 (June 2005: ~18,247)

Mercury1.7% at 16,670 (June 2005: 16,395)

MINI-1.4% at 3,556 (June 2005: 3,607)

Mitsubishi-.04% at 10,004 (June 2005: 10,621)

Nissan18.9% at 65,854 (June 2005: 81,158)

Pontiac12.1 at 41,115 (June 2005: 36,665)

Porsche10.4% at 3,058 (June 2005: 2,770)

Saab-50.2% at 3,295 (June 2005: 6,614)

Saturn.70% at 23,790 (June 2005: 23,618)

Subaru3% at 18,476 (June 2005: 17,946)

Suzuki28% at 9,516 (June 2005: 7,449)

Toyota15.71% at 195,332 (June 2005: 168,832)

Toyota Motor Co.14.41% at 223,018 (June 2005: 194,875)

Volkswagen5.5% at 20,121 (June 2005: 19,071)

Volvo-11.4% at 10,867 (June 2005: 12,266)