RON430

I don't call the year over year decline with a relatively new model anything to brag about. I also don't think outselling the M45/35 is much of a distinction either. But it is pretty apparent that Lexus is very happy just outselling the M45/35 and RL. You are probably right, better to be the best selling Japanese car in this class against other Japanese brands rather than try to compete with all the worlds cars.

ktiger

Do you really think that will make a difference in GS sells? It doesn't make a difference when BMW or Mercedes does it. The number of cars sold pretty much stay the same.

Why can't we just admit that the GS in it's current form will not come close to overtaking the 5 series or the E series. My goodness it's barely outselling a "tier 2" outfit like the Infiniti M.

Don't get me wrong, I am not a big Infiniti fan but they have stepped up to the plate with the M. Prior to the M35/M45, how many $40,000 to $60,000 vehicles they use to sell per month? 100? If they were lucky!

Lexus had some success with the GS between 1998 - 2002. That is they actually increased sales above the introduction of first generation GS. Can that be said about the introduction of the third generation GS? I don't know the answer to that question, maybe someone can help with that.

jrock65

Nissan has no excuses. A -5.7% YTD sales decrease has to hurt while all the other major import company YTD sales is up.

Going two years without a single new product/redesign is bad planning for a mainstream brand like Nissan and they would have been silly to think that they could keep sales momentum. Also, during these fuel conscious times, it hurts Nissan that it is the least mpg oriented of the imports.

LexFather

I have never stated anytime or anywhere the GS is trying to overtake the E/5 series. Want to know why?
Because LEXUS THEMSELVES never stated that. They wanted 36k sales the first year as a goal (which they achieved) and they did stated a 14% market share (I have to find the article).

The GS does now have AWD but comes nowhere to the different versions of the E or 5, there is no way possible it will beat them in sales.

The second part of this equation is Lexus PURPOSELY left the 4.3 in the GS and a lower hp V-6 so it can keep things FRESH, ala the GErmans and give it new engines after a couple years.

As for your question, yes, the 3GS being more expensive, outsold the 2GS its first year by 6,000 cars (the 98 2GS sold 30k cars). We will see how 2nd year results play out.

FInally, I think many people are disillusioned that Lexus is only after being the best in sales. LEXUS has NEVER stated it wants to be best in sales. Lexus has only stated it wants to be THE BEST and if they happen to be number #1 in sales, they are very happy with that. They released this in a press release. THey are happy to be number #1 in sales but that is not their goal. One of their goals it to continue to keep present customers happy while acquiring new ones.

ktiger

Thanks, well said.

RON430

This was very well said and reasoned. The GS does not have the breadth of the 5 or E to compete on sales numbers. And I have posted my agreement that for the performance enthusiast, the 1998 - 2002 GS were as competitive as Lexus ever got in this segment. The new GS is a disappointment to me from the performance standpoint, please do not post 0-60 or mpg for the h, I know the numbers and it isn't enough to overcome the rest of the package for me. But my comment on the poor sales showing was not in relation to the 5 or E class but to the GS itself. A 35% decline in sales to last year for such a new model is a very poor showing to me. I hope you are right and Lexus is beyond content and actually happy with the GS sales numbers. I doubt the new motors will have much more than a minor and short term bounce in sales. And yes, I am not very happy about it.

bitkahuna

iTrader: (20)

I think my disappointment is because of Lexus' schizophrenic advertising.

They've advertised the ES and LS for years are luxo-boats - no problem with that.

But then they show hip ads with IS and GS roaring down roads - definitely pitching performance but they only sort of deliver.

Lexus is doing just great with or without my approval though.

The IS, ES, RX (and LS given its price point) are home run successes. The rest is just icing on a pretty darned big profitable cake.

LexFather

Thank you Ron, great post and I agree the drop is large. Nowhere have I read or seen 2nd year sales targets, so I cannot make a call on if this was expected by them or below expectations.

We do know GS 430 production has ended. They are no longer being built.

jrock65

"There is a level of confidence that the car will resonate well with the U.S. public such that Lexus group vice president and general manager Denny Clements says that they anticipate reaching an annual sales level of about 33,000 units"

33,000 was the annual sales goal, implying that they hoped to sustain that level (at least for the initial few years). I don't remember seeing any first-year/second-year distinction.

Also, let's not kid ourselves, the main reason that the 5 series sells better than the GS isn't because the 5 series has more variants. Even without the M5 and the sport wagon, the 5 still outsells the GS by almost 2 to 1.

And while it's true that the 5 offers two differently powered versions of its inline 3.0 engine, they're not exactly giving away the 525i. The 525i is still priced higher than the GS300, similarly equipped.

BTW, the GS is selling just fine, and I don't think Toyota is concerned about it at all.

videcormeum

The M is better than the 3GS in my opinion pretty much all around.

The interior is quite a lot better; the VQ might be old, but it's still competitive even in mileage according to CR - in their 150 mile trip the GS300 AWD only managed to get 1 mpg better than the M35 AWD and the M35 AWD is almost a half-second quicker to 60 mph; both cars are exceptionally reliable. The M's design may be a point of contention but then so is the GS's design.

M.

LexFather

Let us look at the 5 breakdown. Every month, they sell 1500 or so 525s. How about we add up JUST 530/530AWD and 550 sales vs GS sales?

I will later when i have time.

If Lexus kept the GS 300 vs 525, then GS 350 vs 530 then GS 460 vs 550 and GS 450h vs M5 (I know now the same level but trying to play fair) it would be closer, but the GS still does not have a wagon.

And I do think the GS is selling fine as well, shows the most power in class is not everything.

jrock65

Sure, we can live in an imaginary world where the 525i doesn't exist. The fault with that line of reasoning is that if the 525i did not exist, most of the would-be 525i buyers would simply have bought the 530i.

RL aficionados say this often. Let's just tally RL v. GS300 AWD v. M35x, and the RL is the best-selling!

So, let's say that Lexus marketed 2 V6 versions (GS300 and GS350) instead of one. Would that really increase sales that much? I doubt it, probably not more than 300 or 400 overall at most. Not nearly enough to make up the 2000 unit per month difference between the 5 and the GS.

As I said, the GS is selling just fine. But having one V6 variant instead of two V6 variants is not the main reason that it is getting handily outsold by the 5.

Same thing goes for the M. If they marketed an M30 in addition to the M35, it's not going to add to overall sales that much.

doug_999

I'll throw my 2 cents in here and they are basically an agreement with Ron and Bit. The new GS should have been a significant improvement over the old car but the fact is it was not. I REALLY REALLY wanted it to be a significant improvement as well as I simply love the looks of the car, both inside and out - IMHO probably one of the best looking cars out there today. But it drives like the old one, meaning that it needs aftermarket tuning to approach the competition and just does not approach the driver satisfaction of either the Infiniti or BMW products.

The market for this car (and all RWD $50K plus cars) is not huge - I do however think the GS sales will improve with the GS350/GS460 - especially if they put a sport package in there

LexFather

I am not saying it is unfair, your right, Lexus SHOULD offer more varients if they WANT the sales crown in this class. However, that is NOT thier goal. Their goal is market share or even as you stated, the 33k a year in sales. So to say the GS is a failure b/c its not the best selling in class (and I know u didn't say that) is ridiculous.

The RL could have 50 varients, it still would rust on dealer lots. Expensive Acuras simply do not sell.

LexFather

Part of the problem is the 1GS was pretty lackluster, the 2GS simply blew it away in every aspect. Since the 3GS would initally have pretty much the same hp levels, we would not (especially us V-8 owners) be blown away.

To me it drives much better stock for stock than a 2GS, its not even close to me. It will NEVER drive like a BMW though, it will drive like a Lexus.

To me BMW clearly owns the small and midsize sporty luxury or even luxury in general market. They have BEEN there and even with odd designs, continue to sell and rank #1 or high in comparisons.

Lexus to me, has done an admirable job of getting their share, the LEXUS way.