RON430

Hey bit. Everyone is looking at these VLJ (Very LIght Jets) to open up some new business models like air taxis but I am not sure. Driving a VLJ yourself is a major commitment to stay current. But if you've got the time and the bucks, it is pretty convenient.

DrUnBiased

"HondaJet's patented over-the-wing engine-mount configuration helps eliminate the need for a structure to mount the engines to the rear fuselage, maximizing space in the fuselage for passengers and luggage. Further, by determining the optimal position for the engines, the over-the-wing mount actually reduces drag at high speed to improve fuel efficiency."

nthach

GE helped Honda out with the engines, much like how they worked with SNECMA to bring high-bypass jet engines to small and medium size planes that used to be powered by Pratt and Whitney JT8Ds...

RON430

To a pilot, aircraft specifications for anything other than models that have been in production for some time are generally not believed. There are so many variables in aircraft fuel efficiency, and for jets the altitutde that ATC will let you get to and headwinds/tailwinds are far more significant than airframe design. When you talk about fuel burn on a jet, the altitude that the numbers are for are critical and I haven't seen anyhing on that for the Hondajet yet. But it could be true and it doesn't take much to get a lot of sales in aircraft.

Aerodynamics can also present nasty handling issues. There is a fine balance on drag. Airframes that are really slippery can take a lot of thought on approaches. Slippery airplanes have to put additional, and often complicated, devices in to allow them to slow down and go down at the same time. Mitsubishi put spoilers instead of ailerons on the MU-2 series and they are more efficient at high speeds but at low speeds they have wicked response which is why that model is plagued with huge insurance premiums and fatalities due to the tendency toward lawn dart landings from poor low speed handling characteristics. The other minor issue if you are actually talking about buying one of these things instead of reading brochures is service. In airplanes, when someone puts a unique design feature in it often winds up with increased service fees as a reward. When the engines are on the aft fuselage, especially with a T tail, they are very easy to service. Just have to wait and see how the Hondajet fairs. From what I see on price, it isn't going to be very different than the competition so it will need something.

RON430

No 0-60 times but here is the full press release.

"CorporateJuly 25, 2006

Honda to Begin Sales of Very Light Jet – “HondaJet”
-- Honda and Piper Aircraft to Form New Business Alliance

OSHKOSH, WIS, U.S.A., July 25, 2006– Honda announced plans to enter the innovative HondaJet in the growing verylight jet market, with the process of accepting sales orders expected to begin in the U.S. in fall 2006. Toward this goal, Honda will establish a new U.S. company to hold FAA type certification and production certification. Honda’s goal is to complete type certification in about 3-4 years, followed by the start of production in the U.S.

Making the announcement at the Experimental Aircraft Association (EAA) AirVenture 2006, the world’s largest annual aviation gathering, Honda also revealed plans to form a business alliance with Piper Aircraft, Inc. to collaborate on sales and service, and to explore opportunities in engineering and other areas within general and business aviation.

Honda and Piper will provide a new level of sales and service to meet the needs of jet customers with the goal of setting a higher standard for the quality of the ownership experience. No specific details regarding additional collaboration were announced.

“Aviation has been an important dream of Honda for more than four decades,” said Satoshi Toshida, senior managing director of Honda Motor Co., Ltd. “Our goal is consistent with the philosophy of other Honda products -- to provide convenient and efficient transportation that will make people’s lives better. We are excited now to enter a new dimension of mobility.”

“In Piper we believe we have a partner we can collaborate with in our effort to bring new value to customers in the very light jet market,” said Toshida.

“Honda is a company with a rich heritage of bringing high quality, innovative products to market,” said James K. Bass, president and CEO of Piper Aircraft, Inc. “This business alliance is a perfect fit given the commitment both Piper and Honda have to providing our respective customers with world class products and services. Piper is very excited about this alliance and the way it complements our vision for the future.”

HondaJet features several innovations that help it achieve far better fuel efficiency, larger cabin and luggage space and higher cruise speed than conventional aircraft in its class. The announcement to commercialize HondaJet comes one year after the plane made its world public debut at EAA AirVenture 2005 in Oshkosh, Wis.

The result of 20 years of aviation research, key HondaJet innovations include a patented over-the-wing engine-mount configuration, a natural-laminar flow (NLF) wing and fuselage nose, and an advanced all-composite fuselage structure.

“We want to create new value within the aviation market through the unique new design of HondaJet,” said Michimasa Fujino, HondaJet project leader and vice president of Honda R&D Americas, Inc. “Our goal is to deliver three key attributes – performance, quality and comfort – beyond what people currently expect from light business jets.”

HondaJet’s NLF wing and NLF fuselage nose were developed through extensive analyses and wind-tunnel testing. These designs help HondaJet achieve low drag. HondaJet’s patented over-the-wing engine-mount configuration helps eliminate the need for a structure to mount the engines to the rear fuselage, maximizing space in the fuselage for passengers and luggage. Further, by determining the optimal position for the engines, the over-the-wing mount actually reduces drag at high speed to improve fuel efficiency.

The advanced all-composite fuselage structure consists of a combination of honeycomb sandwich structure and co-cured stiffened panels. It was developed to reduce weight and manufacturing costs. This aircraft is also outfitted with a state-of-the-art all-glass flight deck with an integrated avionics system that displays all information digitally on a high resolution flat display, and also has an autopilot function.

HondaJet – Main Specifications
Seating 7 (2 crew + 5 passengers or 1 + 6)
Engine GE-Honda HF118 Turbofan Engine- × 2
Length × width × height 12.7× 12.2 × 4.1 m (41.7 × 39.9 × 13.2 ft)
Maximum speed 778 km/hr (420 knots)
Operational ceiling 12,497 m (41,000 ft)
Range 2,037 km (1,100 nm)

To date the prototype six-to-seven seat HondaJet has completed more than 240 hours of flight-testing since December 2003. So far, the prototype HondaJet has achieved an altitude of 43,000 feet and a speed of 412 knots and is on course to meet or exceed all of its design specifications.

Piper Aircraft, Inc., headquartered in Vero Beach, Fla., is the only general aviation manufacturer to offer a complete line of aircraft for every general aviation mission, from trainers and high-performance aircraft for personal and business use to turbine-powered business aircraft. In its 70-year history, Piper has produced more than 144,000 aircraft and developed more than 180 different models. Piper covers the global marketplace with 80 sales and service centers worldwide.

Honda is one of the world's leading producers of mobility products including its diverse line-up of automobiles, motorcycles and ATVs, power products, marine engines and personal watercraft. Honda is the world's preeminent engine-maker, with annual worldwide production of more than 20 million engines. On a global basis, Honda has more than 130 manufacturing facilities in 29 nations.

Honda began operations in North America in 1959 with the establishment of American Honda Motor Co., Inc., Honda's first overseas subsidiary. Honda began assembling motorcycles in America in 1979, with U.S. automobile manufacturing starting in 1982. Honda now employs more than 28,000 Americans in the design, manufacture and marketing of its products in America. Honda currently builds products in 13 manufacturing plants in North America, with three major R&D centers in the U.S."

MikeFD3S

Stolen from a fark headline.

Honda to enter aircraft production; no word on progress in development of actual rice rocket

DrUnBiased

Right. I was more pointing out the increase in cabin space because of the engine placement more than fuel economy.

RON430

I know Honda is making that point about increased cabin space but in bizjets, the engines are normally at the rear and it isn't like the structure to mount them is taking up much cabin room back there. If the thing is big enough, that's usually where the head and maybe some inside luggage stowage are. Like most bizjets it is rather small and actually pretty cramped for much of a flight, hence the 1100 mile range, but I guess we will see. To me, the big difference is whether you can stand up or not and I don't think the HondaJet is going to permit that under any circumstance. They are still a couple of years out but it should be interesting to see how it plays out. At least one good thing from that engine position, you won't have to be a propeller head to be able to point one out on the ramp. If they sell well, you should be able to tell.

cliffud

iTrader: (3)

I'm thinking it was to lower the cabin noise??

RON430

Normally the loudest noise is the air speeding past the fuselage and wings on jets, the engines are fairly quiet in side the plane, especially at altitude. I believe Dashocker is right and if you read the press releases Honda is making the claim that it is a more efficient place to put the engines. If you put the engines in the tail, the wing can be put a bit further back as the weight of the engines in the back can be used to stretch the fuselage more forward of the wing. You would have to assume that the engines are pretty close to the center of lift on the wing and the center of gravity isn't far away. Depending on the sweepback of the wing and where the fuel is at, you try to reduce center of gravity changes as fuel burns but with lifht aircraft such as these, that is always somewhat of a concern. And all this is great but the final analysis is taking one for a test drive and seeing if you like it for the bucks.