Is Lexus failing?
08-02-06, 09:24 PM
#16
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Originally Posted by Och
Well, im not trying to argue that ES350 isnt a great car, I'm sure its very nice, but you have to agree, its not purely a Lexus. ..... Right now I have LS400 for a daily driver and GS430 for weekends.
I'll tell you that the ES350 is quieter and has significantly more luxury features than your GS430. I politely suggest you move past your mental roadblock on sharing a platform with other models and go try one out before badmouthing it out of hand. Try a UL model with the ML & the Gen 5 Nav, park assist, etc. Then come back and bump this thread with your impressions.
08-02-06, 09:25 PM
#17
Originally Posted by CHIS350
Just wait for the next LS....it will shake up the luxe cruiser market like nothing has before.
I don't know how many of you have actually seen the next LS in person but......it's simply jaw droppingly stunning. Add that to how we KNOW it's going to perform and...
I don't know how many of you have actually seen the next LS in person but......it's simply jaw droppingly stunning. Add that to how we KNOW it's going to perform and...
08-02-06, 09:28 PM
#18
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Originally Posted by Och
I upgraded from 1GS to 2GS, but the 3GS isn't doing it for me. Gorgeous but not distinctive. In fact, I don't really dig this whole "L-finesse" thing, I like when models look different. Why is it so necessary to make the whole lineup looking so similar that you can't tell one from another unless you're an expert. IMO my 2GS looks 100x better than 3GS.As an owner of a 92 ES 300 manual, the new ES 350 is amazing, I cannot tell its based on a Camry at all, while my car, does have some less than luxury touches.
The ES 350 is truly amazing, I am shocked its an ES.
08-02-06, 09:29 PM
#19
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Originally Posted by DaveGS4
No I don't have to agree, and in fact I don't agree at all. Similar to you, we have a 98 LS400 w/ nav for our daily driver and a heavily modified supercharged GS400 for weekends (and a 996 911).
I'll tell you that the ES350 is quieter and has significantly more luxury features than your GS430. I politely suggest you move past your mental roadblock on sharing a platform with other models and go try one out before badmouthing it out of hand. Try a UL model with the ML & the Gen 5 Nav, park assist, etc. Then come back and bump this thread with your impressions.
I'll tell you that the ES350 is quieter and has significantly more luxury features than your GS430. I politely suggest you move past your mental roadblock on sharing a platform with other models and go try one out before badmouthing it out of hand. Try a UL model with the ML & the Gen 5 Nav, park assist, etc. Then come back and bump this thread with your impressions.
EDIT: Honestly - what's the point of the Avalon + ES350 combo? The good doctor Hannibal Lexus is in the building.
M.
Last edited by videcormeum; 08-02-06 at 09:34 PM.
08-02-06, 09:32 PM
#20
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Originally Posted by videcormeum
I don't care how nice the interior is if I have to fight the steering wheel during acceleration. That's not luxury. Lexus made a mistake shoving the 3.5 liter in the ES - IMO. Of course you can say "don't get on the gas" but ... I still think it's a mistake. Lexus should have moved the ES in the direction of "efficient, luxury family sedan" rather than "red-headed stepchild of the IS" - again - my opinion.
M.
M.
I do agree its more apparent than ever but it surely does not outweigh everything else.
08-02-06, 09:34 PM
#21
Originally Posted by DaveGS4
No I don't have to agree, and in fact I don't agree at all. Similar to you, we have a 98 LS400 w/ nav for our daily driver and a heavily modified supercharged GS400 for weekends (and a 996 911).
I'll tell you that the ES350 is quieter and has significantly more luxury features than your GS430. I politely suggest you move past your mental roadblock on sharing a platform with other models and go try one out before badmouthing it out of hand. Try a UL model with the ML & the Gen 5 Nav, park assist, etc. Then come back and bump this thread with your impressions.
I'll tell you that the ES350 is quieter and has significantly more luxury features than your GS430. I politely suggest you move past your mental roadblock on sharing a platform with other models and go try one out before badmouthing it out of hand. Try a UL model with the ML & the Gen 5 Nav, park assist, etc. Then come back and bump this thread with your impressions.
08-02-06, 09:36 PM
#22
I can understand the LX470's sales slump. For god sake it's approaching 9 years old since it's debut. Same thing happened to the Acura integra, Acura NSX, etc. When you leave a car the same for too long, people get bored of it. They want something fresh.
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08-02-06, 09:39 PM
#23
Originally Posted by GSteg
I can understand the LX470's sales slump. For god sake it's approaching 9 years old since it's debut. Same thing happened to the Acura integra, Acura NSX, etc. When you leave a car the same for too long, people get bored of it. They want something fresh.
08-02-06, 09:40 PM
#24
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Originally Posted by 1SICKLEX
Caddy STS before and current DTS. Acura TL. Audi A4 FWD. Luxury cars with FWD and torque steer.
I do agree its more apparent than ever but it surely does not outweigh everything else.
I do agree its more apparent than ever but it surely does not outweigh everything else.
The ES should be a std hybrid/AWD optional. That'd be a good way to better establish their hybrid branding element "-h" and, supposing they have the capacity/supply available, would lower the price (economies of scale) of their hybrid tech ... hell, they've already basically developed the entire platform w/ the RX hybrid (roughly the camry platform) ...
Hailing this car as the next great innovation is blowing sunshine into Lexus' you know where.
M.
Last edited by videcormeum; 08-02-06 at 09:46 PM.
08-02-06, 09:40 PM
#25
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Originally Posted by videcormeum
I don't care how nice the interior is if I have to fight the steering wheel during acceleration. That's not luxury. Lexus made a mistake shoving the 3.5 liter in the ES - IMO. Of course you can say "don't get on the gas"
M.
M.
Oh, and I've given thumbs up to several ES350 drivers I've seen
Last edited by DaveGS4; 08-02-06 at 09:46 PM.
08-02-06, 09:49 PM
#27
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Originally Posted by DaveGS4
So have you driven one? I have the exact same issue and think the RX350 has significant torque steer issues and would not buy one for that reason. I haven't had a FWD car since 1999 and they ususally 'bother me' too. I did not have that reaction in the ES350.... think they've done a very good job of minimizing the issue.
Oh, and I've given thumbs up to several ES350 drivers I've seen
Oh, and I've given thumbs up to several ES350 drivers I've seen
No I haven't driven one. But I can think of so many better ways to spend the 40k I don't have right now.
But I've gotten us way off topic ... all that said, I don't think Lexus is failing at all. They (Toyota/Lexus) are doing almost everything exactly right. It's incredible. US and German manufacturers should be taking notes. Sadly, they're not.
M.
Last edited by videcormeum; 08-02-06 at 09:52 PM.
08-02-06, 09:52 PM
#28
Well, look at Infiniti for instance, they rid themselves of the I30/35 to distance themselves from Nissan. They stated that they are only interested in selling premium cars and I respect them for it. Or look at Acura, as much as they suck, even they are trying to distance themselves from Honda. I'm pretty sure that next gen TL and TSX will come with sh-awd
08-02-06, 09:54 PM
#29
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Originally Posted by videcormeum
No I haven't driven one. .
Go drive one and report back before you 'blow sunshine' yourself
.Maybe you'll hate it still, maybe you'll be a convert like me.... but any value of your commentary on the ES350 is significantly diminished in my mind until you can speak from experience and not pure conjecture.
I've got my plans to get a LS460 in a couple of years as well (no PMs for part out dibs on my GS please) but have pretty much decided to get an ES350 over a 04/05 CPO LS430 after driving both to replace my daily LS400.
08-02-06, 09:57 PM
#30
Originally Posted by DaveGS4
I've got my plans to get a LS460 in a couple of years as well (no PMs for part out dibs on my GS please) but have pretty much decided to get an ES350 over a 04/05 CPO LS430 after driving both to replace my daily LS400.