End of Jag?
08-03-06, 11:20 PM
#17
Moderator
Rest In Peace Jaguar...
Sad that it maybe, Jaguar will always have it's place in history. Most of the other automobile manufacturers have moved on with reliability and technology and Jaguar fell too far behind...
Sad that it maybe, Jaguar will always have it's place in history. Most of the other automobile manufacturers have moved on with reliability and technology and Jaguar fell too far behind...
Last edited by Trexus; 08-04-06 at 02:12 PM.
08-04-06, 05:55 AM
#18
Originally Posted by O. L. T.
Jag died when Ford bought them, it's just been a long and drawn out funeral.
I want to correct my earlier comment about there not being any innovative changes/improvements with Jag. The way they make their cars with aluminum space frames. They way they tack things together instead of using rivets. These innovations promote strenght and lighter vehicles. As 1sick said, they don't advertise it enough. They should be singing their own praises from here to the mountain top. Especially since the look is the same for so many model years. It tends to make people think there haven't been changes when in fact there were.
08-04-06, 06:29 AM
#20
Super Moderator
Quite sad if it happens. We had two XJ6s in the 80s, an 84 Vanden Plas and a regular 86. Repeatedly we got that joke about you buy two, one to drive and one to keep in the shop. We considered even changing out the motors to a Chevy. Lots of issues with both. My father wanted and XKE for many years, but those repeated failures just kept adding up. They were indeed beautiful vehicles.
08-04-06, 07:50 AM
#23
Lexus Fanatic
Originally Posted by 1SICKLEX
I used to want a Jag as a teen, but I can see that their time is almost over.
08-04-06, 08:59 AM
#25
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Well at least Car, Top Gear, Evo, Jeremy Clarkson, and the rest of the increasingly pompous British auto journalists won't have Jag to praise anymore. Even with all their inspiration, and a whole lot of Ford bucks, they couldn't make a competitive product.
08-04-06, 09:16 AM
#26
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Shame, since the concept artwork for the next S-Type and XJ look very nice.
I really think the interior work on recent Jags (especially the S-Type) is part of the problem. Too many parts/control pieces have a Ford/Lincoln look and feel to them.
I would love to see Tesla Motors buy up both Jaguar and Land Rover. Give every model an all electric engine.
More realistically, I could see Nissan buying up Jaguar. Maybe slim down the model lines to only the XJ and XK.
I really think the interior work on recent Jags (especially the S-Type) is part of the problem. Too many parts/control pieces have a Ford/Lincoln look and feel to them.
I would love to see Tesla Motors buy up both Jaguar and Land Rover. Give every model an all electric engine.
More realistically, I could see Nissan buying up Jaguar. Maybe slim down the model lines to only the XJ and XK.
08-04-06, 09:22 AM
#27
Lexus Fanatic
Originally Posted by Gotham
More realistically, I could see Nissan buying up Jaguar. .
08-04-06, 09:49 AM
#28
Lexus Fanatic
iTrader: (20)
Maybe we should discuss WHY Jags aren't selling in sufficient numbers.
I think a big factor is the interiors and space efficiency (or lack thereof). The latest XJ is a bit better but front seat room really isn't that great.
The lingering doubts about Jag's reliability from bad times past is still there, even though they're much improved. It's certainly ironic that FORD improved Jag's quality, but that tie to Ford actually HURTS Jag's image too. But it must be a brand management issue because Chrysler really hasn't brought down the reputation of MB, but MB has brought UP the reputation of Chrysler I think. Maybe that's it - prestige maker takes over mainstream maker vs. the other way around.
The XK is a nice vehicle, but selling $80K convertibles and coupes in a questionable brand in sufficient numbers to make money isn't so easy.
The car business seems to be one where you either sell in small numbers at very high prices, or sell in huge numbers at lower prices. There's no in between UNLESS you can successfully and economically leverage your mainstream parts in your niche vehicles. I guess Ford hasn't been able to do that enough with Jag.
Finally, maybe there's a management problem. Being from England myself I've no doubt that there's a lot of pride/ego in the British Jag management, clinging to times long past, and still not 'getting' the realities of the modern car business. They're almost like Porsche was a little over a decade ago - people liked the designs, but the quality and profitability was small. What did Porsche do? They REINVENTED everything about the way they did business, and turned to JAPANESE consultants to help them revamp the way they make vehicles. I think Jag needs to do the same or it will dwindle into complete obscurity.
I think a big factor is the interiors and space efficiency (or lack thereof). The latest XJ is a bit better but front seat room really isn't that great.
The lingering doubts about Jag's reliability from bad times past is still there, even though they're much improved. It's certainly ironic that FORD improved Jag's quality, but that tie to Ford actually HURTS Jag's image too. But it must be a brand management issue because Chrysler really hasn't brought down the reputation of MB, but MB has brought UP the reputation of Chrysler I think. Maybe that's it - prestige maker takes over mainstream maker vs. the other way around.
The XK is a nice vehicle, but selling $80K convertibles and coupes in a questionable brand in sufficient numbers to make money isn't so easy.
The car business seems to be one where you either sell in small numbers at very high prices, or sell in huge numbers at lower prices. There's no in between UNLESS you can successfully and economically leverage your mainstream parts in your niche vehicles. I guess Ford hasn't been able to do that enough with Jag.
Finally, maybe there's a management problem. Being from England myself I've no doubt that there's a lot of pride/ego in the British Jag management, clinging to times long past, and still not 'getting' the realities of the modern car business. They're almost like Porsche was a little over a decade ago - people liked the designs, but the quality and profitability was small. What did Porsche do? They REINVENTED everything about the way they did business, and turned to JAPANESE consultants to help them revamp the way they make vehicles. I think Jag needs to do the same or it will dwindle into complete obscurity.
08-04-06, 09:55 AM
#29
Lexus Test Driver
Someone here earlier mentioned rumor Hyundai was looking at it... i would actually like to see that. As we all know, they've made some SERIOUS leaps in quality and design in the last couple years. I view them as the next serious competitor to Toyota in 10 years. Although, I do not know where that will leave them as far as powertrains go. I have not seen a good powertrain in a Jag lately, and Hyundai doesn't have any experience with anything but economy powertrains.
The new XK NEEDS a bump in horsepower. With both Mercedes and BMW, and Lexus soon, having upgraded V8's to over 350hp.... the 300 just does not cut it in this market.
The new XK NEEDS a bump in horsepower. With both Mercedes and BMW, and Lexus soon, having upgraded V8's to over 350hp.... the 300 just does not cut it in this market.
08-04-06, 10:52 AM
#30
Lexus Fanatic
Originally Posted by bitkahuna
Maybe we should discuss WHY Jags aren't selling in sufficient numbers.
I think a big factor is the interiors and space efficiency (or lack thereof). The latest XJ is a bit better but front seat room really isn't that great.
.
I think a big factor is the interiors and space efficiency (or lack thereof). The latest XJ is a bit better but front seat room really isn't that great.
.