doug_999

Actually it is - voodoo. BMW somehow seems to get it right - the car feels very connected and controllable - without harsh responses through the steering wheel. Others can do it (Porsche, etc) but for some reason the Japanese seem to have trouble doing it. The new Infiniti M really came close however. It is basically making the sum of all the parts work - from the suspension through the steering rack (including body stiffness, etc.) -trust me, it is not as easly to duplicate as you think (and has been mentioned by numerous mags) and as proven by the 3rd gen GS.

With regards to seats, I have to agree, the BMW seats are superior for longer trips. Lexus seats can be like that couch that you sit in and sink down into and it feels oh so good - but when you go to get up after an hour, oh man does it hurt. BMW seats might seem "harder" at first, but to me, they are far more comfortable throughout the drive. Just my take on it however.

JZA80MHU38

As the driver, I would like to spend time in the German cars. Had Audi, BMW and MB and spend numerous long trip in them. Never have problem with muscle fatigue with them. Now with the RX400h, everytime I step out for anything longer than a 2 hour drive, I can feel my back muscle sore. My Supra's OEM seats are more comfortable for long-distance driving than most Lexus' seats.

But I found it more comfortable sitting in the Lexus as a passenger.

foofighter

i see what you're saying doug, it's more like a result of synergy with all the components. I guess if you think about it, it can be difficult to break down reverse engineer things...would this be akin to VW's fahrverneugen(sp?)

LexFather

It also can work the other way around. BMW cannot figure out the Lexus ride, which it seems no matter what mods you add and what size wheel u go with, the ride is still heavenly.

Remember everyone, Lexus is doing LEXUS. Its not trying to copy BMW. Lexus cars are its interpretation of luxury and sport.

The 1IS was really loved by the press b/c it reminded of many editors of the old E36 in steering, size and feel. The E46 if some of ya'll remember had to have its steering recalibrated after its first year b/c many complained it was becoming Lexus like. BMW said they changed it to make it easier for people to park.


As for seats, I do like how the BMW seats hold me in, they offer great lateral support and have like 600 different ways to position themselves. Lexus seats are clearly more tuned for comfort with much less settings.

doug_999

Bingo!!!!!

rominl

iTrader: (4)

i have to agree with foofighter, why do you bother to find proof and explain to those people? i am not biased against anyone, lexus or bmw, but sometimes we just need to leave those people in their own world

and btw, from waaaaay back, mitsubishi 3000gt, and the nissan 300zx. they both had quad tips.

LexFather

Seriously, another reason I stopped posting all over other forums is the I.Q level of them, or rather lack of it.

hell the IS 430 TTE had quad pipes...This was almost 5 years ago...
http://www.lexusownersclub.co.uk/art...loads/7571.jpg

GSteg

iTrader: (15)

I also find the GS seat not as comfortable. The 330i I sat in had far more comfortable seats, but the suspension was a bit firm, offsetting the comfortable seat. I guess its a lose-lose situation.

I doubt BMW wants to "copy" Lexus's smoothness. BMW is known for chassis dynamic and driving experience. If BMW cars, especially the M-series, had Lexus' smooth characteristics, they'll get a lot of complaints from their customers about how the ride is too cushy to do any real driving. You can't really have a stiff suspension for sport, and then magically absorb every bump on the road for OEM Lexus smoothness (no not even with tien CS )

Though BMW should try to copy Lexus' reliability
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foofighter

and this is why i come to this forum for really unbiased opinions on cars

LexFather

GS seats leave much to be desired. I do think the lower lumbar support is good when you use it. That Sparco banner is looking better and better

I am not saying BMW wants to copy Lexus for smoothness, otherwise, it would not be a BMW.

Lexus has clearly figured out the American market in such a short period of time, its quite astonishing. It took BMW/Benz 40 years to sell this many cars here.

Lexus does need more sport and diesals to try to conquer the Euro market, or at least be a viable alternative.

lux.sh

Because they are nice people with just wrong view in terms of looking at other brands.

but yes, it is tough. most of them won't listen.

rominl

iTrader: (4)

i do have to agree on the GS seats. i have bad back myself, and now driving 4 hours or so in the gs is a complete torture of my body.... the seats are just not that comfortable and i couldn't get it to really support my back well. on the other hand my sc430 is so much better, and after 8 hour drive yesterday, i didn't really feel all that tired. big difference.

skeet94

Wow, is it possible the cushions, seating material, etc are different in the US? I personally find the seats on my Aristo pretty comfortable on long journeys (4 hours plus) although they do not bolster you into place like they should do when taking turns during some aggresive driving.

JZA80MHU38

We Americans usually supersize our meals when we go to McDonald's. That's why

spwolf

hey, its only 30c extra!