SLegacy99

I guess $4.00 a gal. is very real, even for those who are wealthy. Prices at the pump are adding up quickly.

Looking at the KBB value of our 400h with 80k miles...

Private Party value: $24,770

A similarily equipped RX 350: $22,545

spwolf

wait few more years until high gas prices are firmly in people heads...

... just like prius used value shot up by 4-5k this spring.

SLegacy99

Yah. I've been lookin for a new(er) Legacy GT for quite some time and I just can't find any. People are likin the small turbocharged engines I guess.

bitkahuna

iTrader: (20)

compared to what? 180,000 at 25mpg at $4 is $28800 in gas alone. not to mention the ~$53k for the car, so that's ~$82k. so you're saying some alternative combo of vehicle and gas would be $95k?

love the rx450h but reports seem quite varied on its fuel economy.

bagwell

compared to a RX350 see the graphic for gas costs at 100,000 miles...so doubling those numbers to 200000 miles would be:
$39048 in gas for the 350
$27334 for the RX450h
-----------------------
$11714 savings with the hybrid, not to mention no brakes jobs, more power, etc.

spwolf

not sure what is the varied fuel economy reports, but i am pretty sure that people that got 20mpg in RX450h would get 15mpg in RX350 :-).

Depending on skills, you can save 25-30% in fuel costs, drive faster and more luxurious vehicle and save a ton on maintenance - no belts, no mechanical pumps, no disc/rotor changes for the life of vehicles and likely 1 pad change for 180k miles. Also more reliable powertrain too.

Plus get some of it back at resale (i bet by 2014 it will be like diesel vs petrol in europe)

bitkahuna

iTrader: (20)

But what about diff in vehicle costs? Plus 200000 miles is a crapload and 99% of owners don't keep a vehicle that long. But rxh is prob what, 8k more? So saving 4k driving 8 times around the equator doesn't seem like much of a deal. It gets back to the usual argument that it's not really rationally justifiable but you have to want to get a hybrid, save the planet, go slow in the left lane and feel smug, etc.

And again, if i was in the market, i'd prob get an rx450h cuz it's just cool!

bagwell

price difference is more like $5000.

and there WAS $2200 federal tax credit out there....if you woulda bought one sooner you could have got it.

also - some states offer state tax credits....Colorado currently offers a $4700 credit...(this can similarly apply when purchasing a used hybrid)

so the RX450h is virtually the SAME price as a RX350 in CO!!

SLegacy99

But even you kept the 450h for 100k miles you would still save between 5 and $6k on fuel alone.


PA currently offers a $500 rebate with the purchase of a new hybrid.

spwolf

and get higher used value back, and lesser maintenance and drive more luxurious vehicle.

bitkahuna

iTrader: (20)

but again, pay 5-6k more for the vehicle, so no savings.

anyway, i'm done with the economics, they're not really there.

hybrids are cool though.

bagwell

run the same RX450h numbers versus another SUV.....n/m here.....better??

SLegacy99

I don't agree. Here is why. Sure the, RX hybrid costs more and actually the current iteration of RX and RXh have an even greater pricing gap between them than the previous generation. Now, as previously mentioned, there are more than just fuel savings. Furthermore, one important thing to note at least with RX (I haven't compared others) is that the RXh does have a greater premium because it has more standard features. So if you were going to opt for such features anyway on the non-hybrid the premium decreases between the two variants. I know in our case with the 400h, Nav was standard where it was optional of the 350. Thus, the 400h was only around $1500 more than the 350 with Nav that we were interested in. Throw in a $500 rebate from the state of Pennsylvania and we're really talkin now.

But also, keep in mind with the RXh that it is a more potent vehicle than the 350. For us, and my roomate's parents as well, we were looking at vehicles that had a greater amount of power for towing. We tow a 21 foot boat with ours, but initially we crossed shopped the V8 X5, ML 320 Bluetec, and the like. These vehicles of course would have been more expensive to purchase than the RXh. Will this be the case with everyone? Absolutely not. Nevertheless, the RX 350 doesn't offer the power that the hybrid does.

Thinking about power, one could make the argument that most people don't need the added power of the RXh. I think that if Lexus were smart, they would develop a 240 HP hybrid setup for the RX, IS, and ES vehicles. Presumably this would be cheaper, more efficient, and more practical for many buyers who simply don't need all that the RX450h offers. Of course, I would not want to see the potent hybrid go away. The fact that RXh can average 30 MPG and do 0-60 in the low six second range is down right impressive.


Having said all of that. Certainly, vehicles such as the Active Hybrid X6 or the 600hL will never make sense financially. They are status symbols.

SLegacy99

Bingo, you beat me to it.

bitkahuna

iTrader: (20)

because a navigator and rx are so similar in size (not).