Incendiary

Sadly, I'm starting to agree with the people who say only lease Bimmers. I'm considering just leasing all my cars from now on in order to avoid out-of-warranty issues, to sidestep the need to sell the car down the road, and to get into as many different cars in my life as I can.

picus

BMW reliability certainly isn't what Toyota/Lexus's is, but basing the whole brand on a 745? I dunno. Our 330xi is 4 years and 68km old and going strong without an issue. Just don't keep any car out of warranty, easy.

Incendiary

Right, lease.

QSVeilside

I agree.

However, I have a friend who owns an 01 330ci. Another that owns an 02 z3. Another that owns an 04 745Li. Left and right, I see people complaining about BMW. Both in and out of the dealership.

One thing they, (as well as I), LOVE... Driving them. Of course that is when they are functionally operational.

lux.sh

I can agree with the 2nd part, but not the first part. Im pretty sure most G35 owners get G35 not because they can't afford an IS350. Its not like IS350 is such an expensive car. If the same theory applies, people buys IS350 because they can't afford 330i.

To make a point, people in that price range probably has enough money to shell out couple dollar bills to buy whatever is in that class.

ARB

Having a car whether you lease or buy is always a losing battle financially. There are exceptions like antique cars, if you heavily modify a car & find the right buyer, pick up a 'hot' new car cheap & sell it right away for a profit or if you are a Dealer(new or used) as I was for a while. None of these examples are norms though for everyday people.


Now that I am no longer a Dealer I only buy Toyota/ Lexus or Honda/ Acura vehicles. I buy my cars in cash. If I still had a company I would lease for the tax right-off but that is the only time I see leasing as a better way to go than just buying the car in cash. Sometimes I like to get in to a newer car after only 1.5-2 yrs. so I'll sell the car for a small loss and throw that $ back into a new car.. but I always get more $ back for the car than if I had leased it b/ c even when you lease the Dealer still has to make $.. your not just paying for the depreciation of the vehicle while you drive it, your paying the Dealer their profit too

jrock65

Agree. People who can't afford the IS350 will probably get the IS250.

Tekknikal

these "comparison" tests feel pointless.
if they value the refinement in handling in the 3 series at $8k+, the 3 series will always win comparison tests, no matter what infiniti or especially lexus do- unless they reverse engineer what BMW has, as the magazine suggested

in reality, both the G and IS are outstanding alternatives to the 3- the IS being more unique while the G offers a different value proposition.

but at the end of the day I still can't get over how much value they placed on that refined handling. or is $8k not a lot of money?

picus

One thing I wonder is how they came up with the 8k? I know the G will significantly less expensive than a 330i, but 8k seems a bit much. For example, the 335i coupe msrp's less than 2k more than the G-coupe here, with options you can push the difference to 5k, but that's pretty much base vs loaded. I just really don't think when the G's pricing is released we'll be seeing an 8k difference. I also think that when the difference is less than 10% of a cars value it's smart to consider things like maintenance plans, lower money factors, higher residuals etc...

Tekknikal

the pricing is in USD of course. where you are the prices may be different on the G or 3- i dont know. in this case, th #s didnt look too far off- $36k for a G35 is possible, $44k for a 330i is also possible. in fact, the new 335i may run up to $50k if you tick all the boxes!

i dpersonally find it difficult to believe that car will be $5-10k better than the IS350 or $10-15k better than the new G35.

the IS may not have the handling, but it has the refinement and reliability to make up for it. and you still save money.

the G on the other hand looks better (upcoming coupe), and although it might be slightly behind on the performance front, it has a sizable aftermarket. for an enthusiast, $10k+ into a G35 would easily match/kill any 3 series, M included.

picus

I don't think there will be 10k diff between the g coupe and 335.

Tekknikal

lets look at a common base for both:

the g coupe currently bases at $33.8k auto/leather (free)/metallic painted (free)
the 335 is currently basing at $43.2k auto/leather/metallic painted

infiniti has said that they dont intend on increasing the prices by a lot with the new Gs. options packages on the infiniti will likely cost less as well, the differences between the two could easily hit $10k...

picus

I guess we will have to wait and see.

admiralT20

Finally someone has pointed out the obvious. The company philosophy of Lexus is completely different from that of BMW. That of Lexus is closely aligned to Mercedes.

BMW= Sports first, then slap on luxury to it, hence the soul of every BMW is performance.
MB= Luxury first, and then worry about performance and that is why the soul of a MB is luxury.
Lexus= Luxury first, reliability and a cheaper alternative to MB. And now performance, and this I am afraid will affect the cost part of the equation for Lexus.
Lexus was founded about 20 years ago to afford consumers with an alternative to MB. 20 years ago, it was MB that was the leader in this segment, and you will notice that earlier Lexus were designed as an alternative to MB and not BMW.
Over the course of 2 generations, there was been a change in the leadership- BMW has grown to be the dominant player, and then there is Audi (still Germans) and now Lexus is trying to address that.

LexFather

BMW is not just sport with luxury slapped on. They can be very luxurious, they just put the meter tuned to sport more.

I strongly suggest reading the "Lexus Story" before making this claim. Lexus was created as the Toyota representation of what world class luxury is. It wasn't about Mercedes alone. Mercedes at the time was regarded as the prestige and luxury champ.

So you are incorrect to say Lexus was created as an affordable Mercedes. Buyers from all luxury marques came to Lexus. Clearly the LS did have Benz style influence, but that is all.

The SC which came 2 years later was heralded as a world class sports coupe and looked like nothing before and even after it. It blended sport and luxury.

Lexus has always had a 2 pronged apporach. LS/ES luxury, SC/GS sport then luxury. Sometimes it blurs, sometimes the cars get sportier (GS) sometimes more luxury (SC). Thing is no matter what, Lexus HALO cars, the LX/LS and SC are now all full blown luxury, so no matter what IS/GS etc comes, Lexus will be known as luxury only.

Lexus has done luxury so WELL, anything it does sporty, will always be overlooked.

What change of leadership? BMW has always been a player. Audi was until that 60 minutes article and they still cannot catch up in the USA. Worldwide, Audi/BMW/Benz dwarf Lexus by 600,000 cars a year.

BMW became hot as the stock market got hot in the late 90s and people wanted sport luxury and not the other way around. BMW also expanded greatly, Z3, more 3 cars, X5 etc.

BMW will ALWAYS be different to everyone, as they are (and now they advertise it) an independent company.