BMW and MB be afraid...
09-04-06 | 12:32 AM
#46
Lexus Champion
Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 2,068
Likes: 1
From: California
I think the IS definitely competes directly with the 3 series and know first hand that people do cross shop these cars.
A friend of mine who doesn't really "know" a lot about cars as the people on this board was looking for a mid size sedan. On her list was the 3 series and the TL. She was leaning towards the TL because it was a better buy for the price and then I told her she should test drive the new IS. Being completely open and is un-brand loyal she went to the Lexus dealership and gave the IS a test drive.
She called me a couple days later and told me she decided to go with the IS250. The price was right and she liked the interior. Lexus 1, BMW 0.
That is first hand experience. You can talk about numbers and theories, but you can't deny real life situations and I don't think this story is very different from most others.
A friend of mine who doesn't really "know" a lot about cars as the people on this board was looking for a mid size sedan. On her list was the 3 series and the TL. She was leaning towards the TL because it was a better buy for the price and then I told her she should test drive the new IS. Being completely open and is un-brand loyal she went to the Lexus dealership and gave the IS a test drive.
She called me a couple days later and told me she decided to go with the IS250. The price was right and she liked the interior. Lexus 1, BMW 0.
That is first hand experience. You can talk about numbers and theories, but you can't deny real life situations and I don't think this story is very different from most others.
09-04-06 | 09:42 AM
#47
Thread Starter
Lexus Test Driver
Joined: Apr 2006
Posts: 983
Likes: 1
From: Sleep in Long Island, Dominican Parties in Queens
I think the IS definitely competes directly with the 3 series and know first hand that people do cross shop these cars.
A friend of mine who doesn't really "know" a lot about cars as the people on this board was looking for a mid size sedan. On her list was the 3 series and the TL. She was leaning towards the TL because it was a better buy for the price and then I told her she should test drive the new IS. Being completely open and is un-brand loyal she went to the Lexus dealership and gave the IS a test drive.
She called me a couple days later and told me she decided to go with the IS250. The price was right and she liked the interior. Lexus 1, BMW 0.
That is first hand experience. You can talk about numbers and theories, but you can't deny real life situations and I don't think this story is very different from most others.
A friend of mine who doesn't really "know" a lot about cars as the people on this board was looking for a mid size sedan. On her list was the 3 series and the TL. She was leaning towards the TL because it was a better buy for the price and then I told her she should test drive the new IS. Being completely open and is un-brand loyal she went to the Lexus dealership and gave the IS a test drive.
She called me a couple days later and told me she decided to go with the IS250. The price was right and she liked the interior. Lexus 1, BMW 0.
That is first hand experience. You can talk about numbers and theories, but you can't deny real life situations and I don't think this story is very different from most others.
09-04-06 | 10:51 PM
#48
Intermediate
Joined: Jul 2002
Posts: 261
Likes: 12
From: ca
To throw some flies in your ointment and make your argument totally null and void.
I drive by my Lexus dealer and I see no IS's on the lots. In fact I was told their entire years batch of IS350s is presold. You have to get in line to get even a IS250, you can't get one off the lot; and the wait time is around 2-3 months just for a IS250.
Right across the street is a BMW dealership, and there are ROWS AND ROWS of 3-series.
Just like the new Camry total sales not showing what it could POSSIBLY be if they actually had accessible inventory; the IS is not available easily in most locations and this hurts sales obviously.
Not everything on paper is how it works in real life.
I drive by my Lexus dealer and I see no IS's on the lots. In fact I was told their entire years batch of IS350s is presold. You have to get in line to get even a IS250, you can't get one off the lot; and the wait time is around 2-3 months just for a IS250.
Right across the street is a BMW dealership, and there are ROWS AND ROWS of 3-series.
Just like the new Camry total sales not showing what it could POSSIBLY be if they actually had accessible inventory; the IS is not available easily in most locations and this hurts sales obviously.
Not everything on paper is how it works in real life.
Lexus of fremont right now has more IS in stock, than what BMW of Fremont has in stock combined of 330i and 325i.
Real world? When does one dealership stock equal to entire real world.
Again the actual sales number don't lie. I would be suprised that a dealer in alabama would get huge amout of allocation from lexus on IS like any dealers in CA do.
Pointless.
09-04-06 | 11:05 PM
#49
Intermediate
Joined: Jul 2002
Posts: 261
Likes: 12
From: ca
Pricing has not been announced yet.
So no one knows exactly where it will be.
# 3 so what?
Remember what lexus said it wanted to do with GS and IS. The aim was at 5 series and 3 series. (This is what lexus said they benchmarked and aimed at, i didn't say that).
But has BMW 3 series and 5 series showed any negative impact due to GS/IS. The answer is no. So how is my comment pro BMW spin?
Did i said that BMW will gain 8,000 monthly sales? No.
All i said that BMW was outsold by lexus by ES (which they don't have a car in that segment) and outsold on the SUV. The rest of car lineup combined where BMW and lexus go head to head. BMW has won.
Arrogant statement? I am stating what i saw, when is this an arrogant statement?
So where is my comment in error with your comment. BMW knows that in high end luxury market they are a none player and are trying to change that. (which i seriously doubt that they can do it, as their car aren't simply designed for that right now).
In addition a single digit growth in the 3 series market is probably more lucrative than luxury car double digit growth because of sheer volume. In addition, 3 series has grown double digit yty.
The point i am trying to make is simple. Lexus needs to work harder for the BMW slice of pie. So far it has not been able to do that. I will standby my comment that BMW does not have to be afraid of what IS is doing right now because IS and 3 series plays to different crowd.
But when lexus does wake up and decide to go after the 3 series seriously, then BMW has to be afraid. But so far lexus has not showed me that they intend to do anything with the 3/5 series customer base.
So no one knows exactly where it will be.
Remember what lexus said it wanted to do with GS and IS. The aim was at 5 series and 3 series. (This is what lexus said they benchmarked and aimed at, i didn't say that).
But has BMW 3 series and 5 series showed any negative impact due to GS/IS. The answer is no. So how is my comment pro BMW spin?
All i said that BMW was outsold by lexus by ES (which they don't have a car in that segment) and outsold on the SUV. The rest of car lineup combined where BMW and lexus go head to head. BMW has won.
Arrogant statement? I am stating what i saw, when is this an arrogant statement?
BMW's own research shows 75% of luxury customers don't look at BMW. I'm one of them--and I've looked at every single other luxury brand except them. They had a juggernaut with the 3-series, and still do. But when the luxury market is growing xx%, and the 3-series seeks yty growth of x%, they have to take into account that there's a new player in the segment, and their fight to maintain and grow market share got that much tougher.
In addition a single digit growth in the 3 series market is probably more lucrative than luxury car double digit growth because of sheer volume. In addition, 3 series has grown double digit yty.
The point i am trying to make is simple. Lexus needs to work harder for the BMW slice of pie. So far it has not been able to do that. I will standby my comment that BMW does not have to be afraid of what IS is doing right now because IS and 3 series plays to different crowd.
But when lexus does wake up and decide to go after the 3 series seriously, then BMW has to be afraid. But so far lexus has not showed me that they intend to do anything with the 3/5 series customer base.
09-05-06 | 06:14 AM
#50
ES sales definately took away sales from everyone in the entry lux segment which is dominated by sport sedans, not everyone wants sportiness in that segment which the ES sales over the last few months proved. Every ES sold was a potential entry lux C/G/3/IS/TL buyer but if the ES didnt exist they wouldve had to settle with a sport sedan even though they didnt want a sport focused entry sedan.
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