335i Dyno (for comparison)
09-13-06, 12:02 PM
#16
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Thanks for the post....
Please remember that BMW brought this car out to the show earlier than their original release date. My thoughts as to this was because the IS is one heck of a car and is quite a bit less than the 335i but still offers almost the same amount of performance. Same goes for the newer G35 sedan. You have two other companies making cars that are just as fast (or faster) and cost much less than "The Ultimate Driving Machine".
To me amounts to a "war on paper". Whomever can print the best overall specifications can "win the battle" to be "top" of the class in some category.
Now a quote from the BMW site:
"With 300 horsepower and class-leading 300 ft. lbs. of torque"
Now for a few of BMW the Tech Specs: (first number is manual second is automatic)
Top speed 130/150 mph (Why is the manual limited to 130?!?)
Acceleration 0-60 mph 5.3 [5.5] sec
Now for an "apples to apples" price comparison:
BMW: (Options to be on par with a Lexus)
Exterior Options:
Black Sapphire Metallic $475
Interior Options:
Black w/Dakota Leather Upholstery with Dark Burl Walnut Wood Trim $1,450
Packages/Options:
Sport Package $1,000
STEPTRONIC Automatic Transmission $1,275
Paddle Shifters $100
Active Steering $1,250
MSRP
$40,600
Options and accessories
$5,550
Destination charge
$695
Total price as built
$46,845
Please note this does not have DVD navigation or the "I-Drive" system...that will be extra.
So you can see it costs more that the IS350 off the bat and really will not perform that much better (if at all).
Now for a quoted paragraph on the IS350 (2007).
"The heart of the IS 350 is a potent 3.5-liter V6 that churns out 306 horsepower, making it the most powerful engine in its class. With 277 lb-ft of torque at 4,800 rpm, the IS 350 can achieve an astounding 0-60 acceleration time of 5.3 seconds, which is fastest in its class."
On paper the IS will roach the BMW in acceleration and my guess the 1/4 mile as well even if the BMW is equiped with a manual transmission (but you never know).
But my REAL point is that cars are like anything else. They will advertise their strong points and downplay their weak points and try their best to get every award they can so they will be able to be the king of the hill on something.
My guess is that BMW will keep the "real" hp and tourqe numbers in their back pocket so they can pull them out when they need to. Make some "minor adjustments" to the powertrain and claim another 10 hp when it suits them. Lexus has already done this with the IS350. According to "Edmunds" the acceleration of the 2006 IS350 is "(0-60 mph): 5.61 sec"...but all of the sudden it drops to below the acceleration of the BMW for this year with NO changes? (Now 5.3 seconds...matches the BMW now
)
Its all in how you put it on paper....
Can you say shell game anyone or how about three card monty. As impressive as the dyno is I still think the "seat of your pants" test drive is the only way to feel out any car.
My money would still be on the Lexus for a better overall package and better price. Plus with the money you save you could always install a supercharger... wonder what those 0-60 times would be.
Please remember that BMW brought this car out to the show earlier than their original release date. My thoughts as to this was because the IS is one heck of a car and is quite a bit less than the 335i but still offers almost the same amount of performance. Same goes for the newer G35 sedan. You have two other companies making cars that are just as fast (or faster) and cost much less than "The Ultimate Driving Machine".
To me amounts to a "war on paper". Whomever can print the best overall specifications can "win the battle" to be "top" of the class in some category.
Now a quote from the BMW site:
"With 300 horsepower and class-leading 300 ft. lbs. of torque"
Now for a few of BMW the Tech Specs: (first number is manual second is automatic)
Top speed 130/150 mph (Why is the manual limited to 130?!?)
Acceleration 0-60 mph 5.3 [5.5] sec
Now for an "apples to apples" price comparison:
BMW: (Options to be on par with a Lexus)
Exterior Options:
Black Sapphire Metallic $475
Interior Options:
Black w/Dakota Leather Upholstery with Dark Burl Walnut Wood Trim $1,450
Packages/Options:
Sport Package $1,000
STEPTRONIC Automatic Transmission $1,275
Paddle Shifters $100
Active Steering $1,250
MSRP
$40,600
Options and accessories
$5,550
Destination charge
$695
Total price as built
$46,845
Please note this does not have DVD navigation or the "I-Drive" system...that will be extra.
So you can see it costs more that the IS350 off the bat and really will not perform that much better (if at all).
Now for a quoted paragraph on the IS350 (2007).
"The heart of the IS 350 is a potent 3.5-liter V6 that churns out 306 horsepower, making it the most powerful engine in its class. With 277 lb-ft of torque at 4,800 rpm, the IS 350 can achieve an astounding 0-60 acceleration time of 5.3 seconds, which is fastest in its class."
On paper the IS will roach the BMW in acceleration and my guess the 1/4 mile as well even if the BMW is equiped with a manual transmission (but you never know).
But my REAL point is that cars are like anything else. They will advertise their strong points and downplay their weak points and try their best to get every award they can so they will be able to be the king of the hill on something.
My guess is that BMW will keep the "real" hp and tourqe numbers in their back pocket so they can pull them out when they need to. Make some "minor adjustments" to the powertrain and claim another 10 hp when it suits them. Lexus has already done this with the IS350. According to "Edmunds" the acceleration of the 2006 IS350 is "(0-60 mph): 5.61 sec"...but all of the sudden it drops to below the acceleration of the BMW for this year with NO changes? (Now 5.3 seconds...matches the BMW now
) Its all in how you put it on paper....
Can you say shell game anyone or how about three card monty. As impressive as the dyno is I still think the "seat of your pants" test drive is the only way to feel out any car.
My money would still be on the Lexus for a better overall package and better price. Plus with the money you save you could always install a supercharger... wonder what those 0-60 times would be.
09-13-06, 12:02 PM
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Apples and Oranges ?!@#
The BMW 335i and the Lexus is350 are comparable machines.
When I drive to work every day I think am in a Luxury sports sedan. BMW drivers may think they are in a Sports Luxury sedan. Who the hell cares what you call it! The cars are comparable everyone knows that.
Just because one car has a turbo and one uses direct injection does not make them in different classes. Driving the 335i you probably would not even know it is turbo until you open the hood, it is designed that way.
If you want to compare vehicles you should compare the overall driving experience not just what is under the hood.
I doubt that once the 335i 4 door comes out that you will find an article about it that does not compare it to the Lexus
When I drive to work every day I think am in a Luxury sports sedan. BMW drivers may think they are in a Sports Luxury sedan. Who the hell cares what you call it! The cars are comparable everyone knows that.
Just because one car has a turbo and one uses direct injection does not make them in different classes. Driving the 335i you probably would not even know it is turbo until you open the hood, it is designed that way.
If you want to compare vehicles you should compare the overall driving experience not just what is under the hood.
I doubt that once the 335i 4 door comes out that you will find an article about it that does not compare it to the Lexus
09-13-06, 12:05 PM
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Absolutely right. I think I read basically that same comment in the latest BMW magazine.
I should have known someone would comment on that.
09-13-06, 01:10 PM
#23
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I saw 2 dealer 335 coupes yesterday. They are like mini 6's in person. The interior is incredibly better then that of the 3 sedan.
09-14-06, 01:46 PM
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How can you say 'they are comparable machines'? The BMW 335i has twin turbos while the Lexus does not. One is definitely sold as a 'driving machine' (and rides really harsh) and the other (Lexus) is sold as a entry level luxury performance sedan. Apples and Oranges to me....
Both are wonderful cars (if) they do what you are looking for. But not really comparable. One to drive on the outbacks of America and the other to drive cross country. I know which one I want for each mission.
Both are wonderful cars (if) they do what you are looking for. But not really comparable. One to drive on the outbacks of America and the other to drive cross country. I know which one I want for each mission.
09-14-06, 02:37 PM
#25
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this car will smoke IS350 anytime! (with white smoke lol 
)
)
09-14-06, 03:48 PM
#27
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Did someone say the 335i rode harsh? Heh. Have you driven it? Harsh compared to the IS350? Maybe... but even on 19" rft's it isn't that stiff a ride. Personally I wish it were a little tighter. Nothing some sways won't fix.
On paper the IS will roach the BMW in acceleration and my guess the 1/4 mile as well even if the BMW is equiped with a manual transmission (but you never know).
My money would still be on the Lexus for a better overall package and better price. Plus with the money you save you could always install a supercharger... wonder what those 0-60 times would be.
I have to admit I am not sure what 'roach' means in this context, but if you mean "out-accelerate", I'm going to have to disagree. I guess we will have to wait and see, but if initial *real world* numbers are any indication, the 335i will be faster to 60mph by about 1-2 tenths, and faster in the 1/4 by 2-3 tenths (and more importanly, trap 3mph+ higher). Now I will say that personally I don't give a flying monkey about a couple tenths in the 1/4 mile; but since we're all talking numbers...
Oh. What's a super charger for an IS350 cost, anyway? Just wondering, since the first ECU upgrade is out for the 335i (340/340 to the wheels) for $1195. If you're worried about warranty, as mentioned Dinan has said more than once that 400lb/tq will be doable with an ECU re-flash only...
As for the driving characteristics of these cars; if I am not mistaken there is an almost 800 post thread on this forum with many posts on that subject. Let's just say they are different; which you like better is very subjective.
On paper the IS will roach the BMW in acceleration and my guess the 1/4 mile as well even if the BMW is equiped with a manual transmission (but you never know).
My money would still be on the Lexus for a better overall package and better price. Plus with the money you save you could always install a supercharger... wonder what those 0-60 times would be.
Oh. What's a super charger for an IS350 cost, anyway? Just wondering, since the first ECU upgrade is out for the 335i (340/340 to the wheels) for $1195. If you're worried about warranty, as mentioned Dinan has said more than once that 400lb/tq will be doable with an ECU re-flash only...
As for the driving characteristics of these cars; if I am not mistaken there is an almost 800 post thread on this forum with many posts on that subject. Let's just say they are different; which you like better is very subjective.
Last edited by picus; 09-14-06 at 03:51 PM.
09-14-06, 03:59 PM
#28
09-14-06, 04:18 PM
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335i > IS350.
Lexus played with pair of aces. Unfortunately, BMW was smart enough to play with a full house in hand.
Just when you thought Lexus finally hit the market with a revolutionary move, dropping an awesome motor into the lexus, BMW comes out with something better stock, and even better potential when modded. There is a reason why a someone is always number 2. then again, there is reason why BMW is always number 1 in this segment.
Lexus played with pair of aces. Unfortunately, BMW was smart enough to play with a full house in hand.
Just when you thought Lexus finally hit the market with a revolutionary move, dropping an awesome motor into the lexus, BMW comes out with something better stock, and even better potential when modded. There is a reason why a someone is always number 2. then again, there is reason why BMW is always number 1 in this segment.
09-14-06, 04:58 PM
#30
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Anybody have a ruler to measure which car is longer.....
This is now old. OLD. 335 vs IS. Both are great cars.
I do love how some BMW lovers always START a thread when its something they want to rub in our noses.....
This is now old. OLD. 335 vs IS. Both are great cars.
I do love how some BMW lovers always START a thread when its something they want to rub in our noses.....