h2o_247

Surely, everybody is entitled to their opinion. Yet, it is important to have real facts to support ones view. Without actually seeing the real car and had a feel for the car, i think v8lvr and his (or hers) friend should not state what they "think" about the cars. Also, considering you pay for what you get, people perfer having a number of options to suit their needs and budget. I personally dislike paying for something that I will rarely use. At the same time, the large amount of options available for the car allow people to further individualize their car. The "buttons issue" you mentioned is clearly an example of "beauty is in the eyes of the beholder". You might say the buttons are in ackward positions and are ugly; but, someone else might find them easy to use. Lexus perfers the philosophy of form following function. Lexus would sacrifice using an integrated contoller like the iDrive, than having their customers reading a 500-page owner's manual to explain how to turn-on the heated seats. In regard of the suspension, I think that a team of engineers has decided that conventional steel spring suspension is sufficient to maintain the new LS's stance, performace, and safety. A lot of brains are better than JUST one or two brains, especially when they are of enginners. "For the handling, if you go for the "standard" steel spring suspension, no need to guess on how it'll handle." Again, this is your own opinion. Please back up with figures and facts. Or even, have you actually test drove the car to feel how it corners? I guess not. We are living in an age where scientific proofs are the truth towards theories. As for the BMW 750i, I just checked , air suspension and auto leveling is an option. SAME AS THE LS460. Furthermore, all you have said about the new LS is negative OPINIONS. What about the innovations that have been applied to the car? An engine with F-1 inspired technologies? Or world's first 8 speed automatic transmission? Or the having the lowest coefficient drag amongst LS's competitors? Can the other GERMAN competitors match those new improvements? At the moment, I will say NO!

"As for the list of option of: self-parking, backup camera, laminated side glass (even the new sartun has it as standard !!), bluetooth (huh?), sat radio, navigation w/ touch screen & voice (for 66K based price car ??), ottoman & massage seat, active air-suspension (imagine a 2 tons luxury car without this as standard ??), smart cruise control, zone individual A/C from them sensor, active headlight (don't they put this in every car now ?), ...blabla..., some are worth to be considered as option, other is just another way for Toyota to rip us off. And unless you plan to check on all of these, the new LS would be a very typical sedan, no new benchmark created." - v8lvr

AS I have stated above, people buy what they need. When you stated "
...other is just another way for Toyota to rip us off" , that is very absurd due to the fact that they are OPTIONAL equipments in which you have the absolute right not to buy them. In this case of not optioning with the your notion of "rip-off" equipments, technically, you are not being "rip-off". Mercedes benz, on the other hand, equip their cars with things that you may not use, and makes you pay for those useless equipments.

With due respect, I think v8lvr should really reconsider his initial post. I really don't see a reason why you are constantly trying to bash the new LS's reputation as a car with prestige and as a competitor of the "German 3". The only reasons I can think of is you can't stand up to the fact that the Japanese brand Lexus, has spend a little less than 18 years to craft something that can matched the Germans who has spend more than 100 years to achieve. Also, you can't face the fact that Lexus 4.6L can almost out perform the similar German competitors. OR EVEN you can't accept the fact that people have more brain than money. You may be one of those who need to drive while constantly looking at your hood ornament.(if you have one of those cars that is) OR you got paid to post this.

Constructive criticism is good; but, please back up with facts. Not your emotions nor feelings

Hope you don't get too uptight once you have read this.




With best regards,

Felix

Stevekil

When BMW makes a high rev V10 with low displacement, it is called cutting edge and great, very sporty.

When Lexus makes a low displacement high -efficiency engine it is called boring and not enough power.

Those who are permanent psychopaths will attack Lexus no matter what. Good or bad, just attack any non-europeans.

I hear the same thing day in and day out how BMW coupes are so much better than corvette, even though corvette beats bmw in almost every parameter.

Fuel efficiency: corvette is 30% better.
Handling: Corvette has won more times this past year than BMW in last 50 years.
Quality: Interior may not be all bling-bling like BMW, but shape and aerodynamics are better than any BMW or Benz.

Not to go off topic but I see this worship of anything european just plain sycophancy and just too weak.

I get this strong sense that those who lack confidence and are too judgemental of others need these badges to cover their insecurity everyday, and attacking Lexus just makes them feel good.

Steve

GRAND_LS 4

iTrader: (2)

Lets keep this civil. Lets talk about the car, and not eachother.

GRAND_LS 4

iTrader: (2)

You cant. Because it doesnt exist.

ic144

I agree with the rest of you guys. The OP really needs to go and drive the car himself.

About the optional and standard features in the LS460L compared to it's competitors, aka. BMW 7 Series and Mercedes Benz S Class, the Lexus still has better value.

If you were to fully load a Lexus LS460L with every option avaliable, the MSRP would still be lower any fully loaded Mercedes-Benz or BMW.

True, Lexus hasn't released MSRP information yet.

But check this out.

A 2007 Mercedes Benz S 550 with loaded options would MSRP at $104,404.
A 2007 BMW 750Li with loaded options would MSRP at $95,975.

I added every option avaliable except the optional wheel rims, and accessories. I didn't add the panaroma roof for the S Class since that isn't avaliable in the Lexus.

I'd bet that the Lexus LS460L with the Executive Package is NOT going to exceed $95,000.

Either way, Lexus still has better value compared to it competitors.

rominl

iTrader: (4)

i just have one question, around 66k for "base" ls460. how do you know it has no navigation? as far as i know, all ls460 here in the US, "base", they all come with nav already as "standard", although it's an option.

it's just like getting a gs400 back in 98 with no sunroof, good luck

unless you can show us real proof of what you have found out (not that pic, it says nothing to me), i don't see much value in your posts. i am not not accepting facts, but the fact is, sorry but i don't see any facts here

rominl

iTrader: (4)

completely agree. comparing base prices blindly is just as meaningless as comparing "fully loaded" prices without looking at comparable options.

i am more than sure if you put comparable options on all cars, the ls460l will be cheaper than the 750li and s550

ic144

I also forgot one more thing.

There is ABSOLUTELY NO WAY a Lexus dealer is going to order a shipment of Lexus LSs from Japan with No DVD Navigation regardless of whether it's optional or not.

Look at the Lexus RX. I remember the leather trim seats are optional. Do you think a dealer would be dumb enough to order a Lexus RX with cloth seats!?

A Lexus customer is NOT going to spend a premium on a luxurious car and save a few thousand dollars and buy a car with cloth seats. That's ridiculous.

Good luck to getting rid of that car off the lot.

PhilipMSPT

iTrader: (5)

Unless if they're from PETA. They don't buy cars that kill innocent cows for cushions...

T0ked

iTrader: (2)

LOL. I agree likely finding a LS460 without Nav will be like trying to find a 5sp SC300 with cloth interior. A very rare bird indeed.

I don't buy and make buying decisions soley based on magazine reviews. I need to drive them for myself. After losing the S500 (which I feel ended up being a blessing in disguise... Extended warranty expired this year) I've been shopping for a replacement vehicle. I am seriously looking at the new S550 but will hold off on making any buying decisions until the LS460 comes out. Even if everything is an option, the pricing will still be comparable (likely cheaper) to a similarly optioned S-class. Even the S came in 6-cylinder versions with short wheelbase (AKA regular LS460), halogen headlamps, etc. They never brought that model over to the US, but was readily available in Europe. The S430 for the US came standard with non-HIDs. And I'm sure many people were wishing their early w220 S-class did not have air suspension. I too suffered from the airmatic failure debacle early on.

The new LS will have many options to satisfy many people's wants. This is normal and only leads me to suspect that Lexus designed this car to be a world car, to sell in Europe, Asia, and North America, which makes sense with their fairly recent unveiling of the Lexus name in Japan. I doubt many (any) Lexus dealers in the US will order just the base model LS. Probably a special order if someone requests. Most of the S430s I recall when I bought my MB, were fully loaded, except without HIDs, those were an expensive option.

I have no doubt the LS460 will give me a better bargain than the S550 for $90k which is my budget for my new car. If I can get teh same car for $70k by going with the Lexus, then why not? Back to back test drives will be the determining factor.

T0ked

iTrader: (2)

Oh, the GS and SC are not marketing failures. Lexus' volume vehicles are the RX and the ES. Last I heard, I think they are selling all the SC's they make. Low volume niche vehicle. And the GS a failure? First time I've heard that. BMW sella WAY more 3-series than 5-series. Same with Lexus. I think GS sales figures were on target. Someone correct me if I'm wrong.

exBMWowner

I would guess the comment about the GS failure relates to the earlier model, around the late 1990's. It had an anemic engine and was considered to be a very ho hum, uninspiring car. They fixed it around 1999 with the next generation GS model, which has always done quite well in sales figures. The prior GS model sold very few units. I believe the same was true with the prior SC model. It was expensive, boring and slow. I seem to remember they sold around 6,000 units per year until the next (and still current) generation model came out.

encore888

The first gen GS model was a low seller, true--it had a $50,000+ asking price in the 90's and a V6 engine...but Italdesign styling! And the SC model had a good first few years, but dropped off just like lots of sports coupes.

However, the subsequent GS models have been successes, and the current SC was designed as a limited production model.

uthatch

I think the currant GS is not really a hot seller. I believe that it's sales figures are lower than the model it replaced. While it would be hard to call it a failure (it's not an Aztec!), I don't think it's living up to expectations.

That said, you can bet Lexus will remedy that by the next life cycle. Practically every time Toyota has a dud, they reinvent it and the next time around it's a hit.

Threxx

I must admit I think the center stack is ugly and a big disappointment that it doesn't have a standard LCD screen in there when the significantly lower priced GS300/350 comes standard with one, with or without nav.

I guess you can claim some people dislike the screen, but at least on the GS there was NO standard fuction that I ever needed to do in the 2 days I had one as a loaner, that required I touch something on the screen. The only things that required me to touch the screen was some nav functions, and some advanced functions that just flat out wouldn't be available without the screen anyway.

I had hoped that once the hotness of this car dies down in a year or two (and the bugs get worked out in the design) that I could get one for near invoice price with a screen but no nav for under 60k. Looks like that's not gonna happen.