C&D November - M45 vs. 550i vs. E550 vs. GS450h(performance stats pg.4)
09-26-06, 03:08 PM
#61
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2) The safety system wars: All the safety stuff, some required by law, some not, add weight. You know, VDC, VSA, VDIM, VPIOILIWTNB, etc.
3) The tech toys wars: You'd be surprised how much the wiring alone of electronic gizmos add to a car. Cars in this class have all sorts of tech stuff that are arguably useless to most people. The Lane Departure Warning System was noted as a "Low" for the M45. Well, at least the damn thing can be turned completely off.
09-26-06, 03:59 PM
#62
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I'll disagree and agree with C&D when ever I want. I don't care if C&D doesn't like the GS that much, "I" LOVE it, and would LOVE to own one.
What ever happened to the good ol car mag reviews, when they used to talk about the cars, the details, the touches, the technology and safety. Instead, many car mags talk mainly about performance related issues and nothing else. There's more to a car than just how fast it'll go through corners etc
What ever happened to the good ol car mag reviews, when they used to talk about the cars, the details, the touches, the technology and safety. Instead, many car mags talk mainly about performance related issues and nothing else. There's more to a car than just how fast it'll go through corners etc
09-26-06, 04:11 PM
#63
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I agree that they are on the heavy side but at least one of the pigs is a sprinter and the other one is a dancer.. not sure what the other two are.. just trying to look cute I guess..
09-26-06, 04:38 PM
#65
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Guys, you are stating the obvious here. I would like to see them challenge themselves to add items AND keep the weight down or minimal. The last gen GS and 5 were like 3500/3600 lbs cars!
These "midsize" cars weigh over 4000lbs. What is next, 4500 lbs?
Do ya'll know the LS 430 weighs 3900 lbs?
Again, I know why they are heavier, I would just like them to try to keep it down. More weight hurts performance and fuel economy. Then they add more power. Then it gets heaiver...
Vicious cycle! lmao
These "midsize" cars weigh over 4000lbs. What is next, 4500 lbs?
Do ya'll know the LS 430 weighs 3900 lbs?
Again, I know why they are heavier, I would just like them to try to keep it down. More weight hurts performance and fuel economy. Then they add more power. Then it gets heaiver...
Vicious cycle! lmao
09-26-06, 04:58 PM
#66
4.8 seconds for the 550 is incredible.
I hope the GS460 is as fast. 460 engine looks like it has less torque than the E550, but the car will probably weigh less, Hopefully around 3900 lbs. or even under. I agree with 1sicklex that those cars are heavier than they should be. About 6 years ago, this segment was around 3600-3800 lbs.
I hope the GS460 is as fast. 460 engine looks like it has less torque than the E550, but the car will probably weigh less, Hopefully around 3900 lbs. or even under. I agree with 1sicklex that those cars are heavier than they should be. About 6 years ago, this segment was around 3600-3800 lbs.
09-26-06, 05:36 PM
#68
These cars are way too heavy for the mid luxury segment.
They have to reverse this bad trend
09-26-06, 06:20 PM
#69
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Actually incorrect.
2005 GS430 = Curb Weight: 3715 lbs.
2005 530 = Curb Weight: 3803 lbs.
2005 ls430 = Curb Weight: 3990 lbs.
2005 GS430 = Curb Weight: 3715 lbs.
2005 530 = Curb Weight: 3803 lbs.
2005 ls430 = Curb Weight: 3990 lbs.
Guys, you are stating the obvious here. I would like to see them challenge themselves to add items AND keep the weight down or minimal. The last gen GS and 5 were like 3500/3600 lbs cars!
These "midsize" cars weigh over 4000lbs. What is next, 4500 lbs?
Do ya'll know the LS 430 weighs 3900 lbs?
Again, I know why they are heavier, I would just like them to try to keep it down. More weight hurts performance and fuel economy. Then they add more power. Then it gets heaiver...
Vicious cycle! lmao
These "midsize" cars weigh over 4000lbs. What is next, 4500 lbs?
Do ya'll know the LS 430 weighs 3900 lbs?
Again, I know why they are heavier, I would just like them to try to keep it down. More weight hurts performance and fuel economy. Then they add more power. Then it gets heaiver...
Vicious cycle! lmao
09-26-06, 07:00 PM
#70
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I'll disagree and agree with C&D when ever I want. I don't care if C&D doesn't like the GS that much, "I" LOVE it, and would LOVE to own one.
What ever happened to the good ol car mag reviews, when they used to talk about the cars, the details, the touches, the technology and safety. Instead, many car mags talk mainly about performance related issues and nothing else. There's more to a car than just how fast it'll go through corners etc
What ever happened to the good ol car mag reviews, when they used to talk about the cars, the details, the touches, the technology and safety. Instead, many car mags talk mainly about performance related issues and nothing else. There's more to a car than just how fast it'll go through corners etc
09-26-06, 08:18 PM
#71
Seriously it is tiring with some of you choosing to just bicker against me instead of taking the time to read and comprehend what I am saying.
The M35/45 is the ONLY car in this class to SHARE its platform with so many other cars/SUVs. This is A FACT.
The M35 is the only car in this class to SHARE its engine with so many other cars/SUVs/Vans. This is a FACT.
For the third time, I am NOT saying no one else shares nor it is an awful thing. I am saying, that is where TONS of the cost savings is, as this car is cheapest in class.
Do you (and anyone else that wants to lose an debate), understand that?
The M35/45 is the ONLY car in this class to SHARE its platform with so many other cars/SUVs. This is A FACT.
The M35 is the only car in this class to SHARE its engine with so many other cars/SUVs/Vans. This is a FACT.
For the third time, I am NOT saying no one else shares nor it is an awful thing. I am saying, that is where TONS of the cost savings is, as this car is cheapest in class.
Do you (and anyone else that wants to lose an debate), understand that?
The GS350 V6 also is shared in many application within toyota. Some have direct injection some don't, but it is still the same engine. The RX, IS, ES, Camry, sienna..... not to mention the japanese market as well. BTW, this engine is also available on Estima/Previa.
The GS platform is also used to pin the crown athelete, the IS.
The M on the other hand, spawn the FX, the G. Again not much different from what lexus did with GS platform. FX is a car based platform. Instead of useing the Cefiro/Teana platform, Infiniti choose to base the FX on more expansive rear drive platform, while lexus decided to use cheaper camry platform for the RX.
09-26-06, 08:23 PM
#72
Like i have said many time before. Who cares about getting 20 mpg vs 17 mpg when buying a mid-level luxury cars. Lexus simply missed the boat with GS450h. I don't think anyone is going to be so worked over 3 mpg when buying a 60k car.
09-26-06, 09:19 PM
#73
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I cannot see how anyone can dismiss this achievement.
09-26-06, 09:21 PM
#74
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How about this.
The GS350 V6 also is shared in many application within toyota. Some have direct injection some don't, but it is still the same engine. The RX, IS, ES, Camry, sienna..... not to mention the japanese market as well. BTW, this engine is also available on Estima/Previa.
The GS platform is also used to pin the crown athelete, the IS.
The M on the other hand, spawn the FX, the G. Again not much different from what lexus did with GS platform. FX is a car based platform. Instead of useing the Cefiro/Teana platform, Infiniti choose to base the FX on more expansive rear drive platform, while lexus decided to use cheaper camry platform for the RX.
The GS350 V6 also is shared in many application within toyota. Some have direct injection some don't, but it is still the same engine. The RX, IS, ES, Camry, sienna..... not to mention the japanese market as well. BTW, this engine is also available on Estima/Previa.
The GS platform is also used to pin the crown athelete, the IS.
The M on the other hand, spawn the FX, the G. Again not much different from what lexus did with GS platform. FX is a car based platform. Instead of useing the Cefiro/Teana platform, Infiniti choose to base the FX on more expansive rear drive platform, while lexus decided to use cheaper camry platform for the RX.
But I digress. You DIDN'T READ like most anti-SICK people do. You skim my posts and nitpick them. I NEVER said the competitors didn't share parts. I said not to the extent as Nissan does.
Your beloved 5 and 6, share platforms and engines and parts.
The E and CLS share platforms and engines and parts.
Anyway, congrats to all the cars, 4 fantastic vehicles. This class has never been better. I am going to stay outta here as I am certain this thread will be linked and people talk about my comments more than Mel Gibson's lol
Last edited by LexFather; 09-26-06 at 09:31 PM.
09-26-06, 09:42 PM
#75
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0-60s 1/4s Skid-g 70-0ft 70dba lbs GS450h 5.5 14.1 0.81 176 66 4183 E550Sport 4.8 13.4 0.84 170 67 4039 550i 5.2 13.7 0.89 161 66 4048 M45Sport 5.9 14.5 0.85 160 69 4082
GS is slower than 3, worse grip and brakes than all, heavier than all by over 100lbs and of course has a trunk that can hold one Kleenex box. It doesn't really work, but kudos to Toyota/Lexus for trying.
M45 is the slowest - maybe the 5 speed auto hurts? But handles well. Yes it may be a lot cheaper than the 550i but I think the 'win' was a bit contrived over the much more capable 550i. It's a bargain sport sedan, kudos for Nissan/Infiniti for pulling it off.
E550 is the quickest and huge kudos for MB for extending the life of this platform and keeping it so competitive. I'm sure the latest version cost peanuts to develop relatively!
550i is the true sports sedan but with more quirks than BMWs in the past. Kudos to BMW for bringing even more handling competence in a 4000lb+ sedan to the market - it's remarkable.
