C&D November - M45 vs. 550i vs. E550 vs. GS450h(performance stats pg.4)
10-01-06, 10:49 AM
#106
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I did a search and haven't seen any threads on the November 2006 Car and Driver sedan comparo on the mid luxo sedans. Can't say I disagree with anything they said but I might have put the E550 second. Interesting read for the first head to head comparo. GS 460 is going to come very late to this party. M45 did not post best numbers but overall including price, won the comparo. First time I saw bimmer win the most expensive category, even over the merc.
Once again, sorry if this thread has been started but I did search.
Once again, sorry if this thread has been started but I did search.
I should also add that the BMW was equipped with a heads up display and night vision as wll as split folding and heated rear seats (something the other cars did not have I believe). Take these out and add in the comfort access for $1,000 and you have a car priced at $68,615. Enough to give it an extra point in the pricing category and possibly tie the M45? Probably.
10-01-06, 01:27 PM
#107
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MB has gotten agressive in their pricing (compared to where they were before). Still, if you equip a E550 with what the BMW had you are at $68K plus destination (I think). Of course that includes the $1,300 gas guzzler tax. Kudos to MB for offering the sport package AT NO COST! From the review however, it needs it.
I should also add that the BMW was equipped with a heads up display and night vision as wll as split folding and heated rear seats (something the other cars did not have I believe). Take these out and add in the comfort access for $1,000 and you have a car priced at $68,615. Enough to give it an extra point in the pricing category and possibly tie the M45? Probably.
I should also add that the BMW was equipped with a heads up display and night vision as wll as split folding and heated rear seats (something the other cars did not have I believe). Take these out and add in the comfort access for $1,000 and you have a car priced at $68,615. Enough to give it an extra point in the pricing category and possibly tie the M45? Probably.
I don't think many of us want to make a buying decision based on magazine comparos but the options can make cars very different. I will just take C&D at their word and their impression. You could play games with both cars option lists but the bimmer is always going to be more expensive than the Infiniti. I favor the M over the GS by a lot right now but the number of M's you see on the street doesn't exactly make you feel like they are selling many of them.
We have consistently reminded ourselves that Lexus is not that interested in the performance side of the equation and the latest models are proving that, big time. When the second gen GS came out it actually won a few of these comparos. Now, the hybrid finishes dead last as a driver's car just a few months after its introduction. Many months ago, the 450h was going to rewrite the book according to the posts here. Now the 460 is going to turn the GS into a completely different car. I doubt it but then it isn't on my shopping list so my opinion really doesn't matter. And as I posted, I think Lexus will find out that the LS600h isn't going to compete with the twelve cylinder competition either. At least if you are performance oriented, there are some alternatives out there. Just not from Lexus.
10-01-06, 06:05 PM
#108
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Hey Doug, I hadn't noticed MB getting agressive on pricing but I have been mainly looking at the new S. I am still fuming over the great state of Cali's laws that evidently will prevent the high tech diesels from ever getting here and that is really a shame for MB and the other Europeans. I don't want to hijack this thread to hybrid bashing but I am just not a fan and C&D did mention that on a racetrack, the electrons run out, which elicits a big duh. Of course, coming back from Tahoe would get you fully charged but going up will turn your GS450h into a six.
I don't think many of us want to make a buying decision based on magazine comparos but the options can make cars very different. I will just take C&D at their word and their impression. You could play games with both cars option lists but the bimmer is always going to be more expensive than the Infiniti. I favor the M over the GS by a lot right now but the number of M's you see on the street doesn't exactly make you feel like they are selling many of them.
We have consistently reminded ourselves that Lexus is not that interested in the performance side of the equation and the latest models are proving that, big time. When the second gen GS came out it actually won a few of these comparos. Now, the hybrid finishes dead last as a driver's car just a few months after its introduction. Many months ago, the 450h was going to rewrite the book according to the posts here. Now the 460 is going to turn the GS into a completely different car. I doubt it but then it isn't on my shopping list so my opinion really doesn't matter. And as I posted, I think Lexus will find out that the LS600h isn't going to compete with the twelve cylinder competition either. At least if you are performance oriented, there are some alternatives out there. Just not from Lexus.
I don't think many of us want to make a buying decision based on magazine comparos but the options can make cars very different. I will just take C&D at their word and their impression. You could play games with both cars option lists but the bimmer is always going to be more expensive than the Infiniti. I favor the M over the GS by a lot right now but the number of M's you see on the street doesn't exactly make you feel like they are selling many of them.
We have consistently reminded ourselves that Lexus is not that interested in the performance side of the equation and the latest models are proving that, big time. When the second gen GS came out it actually won a few of these comparos. Now, the hybrid finishes dead last as a driver's car just a few months after its introduction. Many months ago, the 450h was going to rewrite the book according to the posts here. Now the 460 is going to turn the GS into a completely different car. I doubt it but then it isn't on my shopping list so my opinion really doesn't matter. And as I posted, I think Lexus will find out that the LS600h isn't going to compete with the twelve cylinder competition either. At least if you are performance oriented, there are some alternatives out there. Just not from Lexus.
The M from Infiniti seems to be selling OK - not setting any records, but personally I don't want to see the car I'm driving at every corner - so lower production suits me just fine.
I also agree about the hybrid, not to bash here, but there are far too many things about the hybrid that turn me off - the first and foremost is the fact that you have the equivalent of a high tension power line running right under your butt. I don't need that kind of flux running through me - even if all the studies have proven "inconclusive".
Shame on our government and worse the state of Calif for basically banning diesels from the states at a time when we need them most.
10-01-06, 08:37 PM
#109
I drove GS many times including the taste of lexus events this year and last year in which Lexus used a much stickier tire than stock tires. The car still handled not as well as the none sport BMW. Not to mention the active roll stablization sports package BMW.
10-01-06, 09:18 PM
#110
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I wish your comment is true. But the reality is different.
I drove GS many times including the taste of lexus events this year and last year in which Lexus used a much stickier tire than stock tires. The car still handled not as well as the none sport BMW. Not to mention the active roll stablization sports package BMW.
I drove GS many times including the taste of lexus events this year and last year in which Lexus used a much stickier tire than stock tires. The car still handled not as well as the none sport BMW. Not to mention the active roll stablization sports package BMW.
All he said is the GS450h handles a lot better with the **** & I am sure that's reality & 100 % true.
Does that make it sportier than the sportiest 5 series ? Probably not. But does everybody even cares whether it is ? A car is a lot more than just sporty handling on a track.
Last edited by Gojirra99; 10-01-06 at 09:38 PM.
10-01-06, 09:44 PM
#111
The Toyota 3.5 is shared yes. Lexus has exclusive use of the Direct Injection, thus the higher power. Their 3.5 is also not in as many products.
But I digress. You DIDN'T READ like most anti-SICK people do. You skim my posts and nitpick them. I NEVER said the competitors didn't share parts. I said not to the extent as Nissan does.
Your beloved 5 and 6, share platforms and engines and parts.
The E and CLS share platforms and engines and parts.
Anyway, congrats to all the cars, 4 fantastic vehicles. This class has never been better. I am going to stay outta here as I am certain this thread will be linked and people talk about my comments more than Mel Gibson's lol
But I digress. You DIDN'T READ like most anti-SICK people do. You skim my posts and nitpick them. I NEVER said the competitors didn't share parts. I said not to the extent as Nissan does.
Your beloved 5 and 6, share platforms and engines and parts.
The E and CLS share platforms and engines and parts.
Anyway, congrats to all the cars, 4 fantastic vehicles. This class has never been better. I am going to stay outta here as I am certain this thread will be linked and people talk about my comments more than Mel Gibson's lol
Direct injection is only for lexus for NA market. But not for Japanese market.
Anyway the main point i am trying to make is that Toyota gains quiet a bit cost saving on the basic block. The volume is also quiet high.
The 5/6 or E/CLS does not benefit as much as Toyota does because of volume they sell vs Toyota's volume. Based on this Toyota has more to gain from this than other car makers.
This is a good thing as Toyota can have lower cost per unit. Much easier to compete.
10-05-06, 12:10 AM
#112
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Guys, you are stating the obvious here. I would like to see them challenge themselves to add items AND keep the weight down or minimal. The last gen GS and 5 were like 3500/3600 lbs cars!
These "midsize" cars weigh over 4000lbs. What is next, 4500 lbs?
Do ya'll know the LS 430 weighs 3900 lbs?
Again, I know why they are heavier, I would just like them to try to keep it down. More weight hurts performance and fuel economy. Then they add more power. Then it gets heaiver...
Vicious cycle! lmao
These "midsize" cars weigh over 4000lbs. What is next, 4500 lbs?
Do ya'll know the LS 430 weighs 3900 lbs?
Again, I know why they are heavier, I would just like them to try to keep it down. More weight hurts performance and fuel economy. Then they add more power. Then it gets heaiver...
Vicious cycle! lmao
So... who's going to be the first one to make lemonade out of lemons and stuff the upcoming 4.6L (and may be a 6sp tranny) into a 2nd gen GS? - 360hp, 3600lbs with stock reliability... sweet
.On a more thread-specific note, the bargain would have been an M35 sport model with a supercharger (~400hp) and may be a set of coilovers. It would have prevailed in acceleration and kept up with the BMW in the twisties and destroyed the field price-wise (although it would not have had all the features of the other 3).
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