Lexus Paint Quality VS. Others
10-26-06, 10:49 AM
#16
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Now mind you--I'm not talking about the paint itself, but the clearcoat and/or whatever was done to finish the paint process. Maybe it was just that particular LS I saw in the showroom, but still a bit disappointing to see in a new-gen Lexus flagship vehicle.
10-26-06, 11:10 AM
#17
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In terms of paint quality or orange peel? If paint quality/hardness/ease of maintenance then Mercedes ceramiclear, Audi/VW, and Vette's.
In terms of orange peel, it's hard to say. I've seen SLR's with OP and Yaris' with none.
As mentioned, paint on *all* modern cars exept ceramiclear is generally inferior to paint 10 years ago. Modern VOC laws have made it soft, prone to orange peel and thinner.
FWIW, almost all factory jobs have OP. The only "OP free" paint jobs I've seen are very expensive aftermarket jobs. The best paint I've ever seen was on a '70 AAR Cuda, and it was a ~$20,000 job.
In terms of orange peel, it's hard to say. I've seen SLR's with OP and Yaris' with none.
As mentioned, paint on *all* modern cars exept ceramiclear is generally inferior to paint 10 years ago. Modern VOC laws have made it soft, prone to orange peel and thinner.
FWIW, almost all factory jobs have OP. The only "OP free" paint jobs I've seen are very expensive aftermarket jobs. The best paint I've ever seen was on a '70 AAR Cuda, and it was a ~$20,000 job.
10-26-06, 11:18 AM
#18
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You've seen a Yaris with literally no orange peel? I've NEVER seen a car (that I've inspected) without orange peel - even the new LS460 I was checking out on the showroom floor yesterday. I mean the paint was nice as hell and had very little orange peel - but there was still an obvious amount of it.
10-26-06, 11:19 AM
#19
EV ftw!!!
In terms of paint quality or orange peel? If paint quality/hardness/ease of maintenance then Mercedes ceramiclear, Audi/VW, and Vette's.
In terms of orange peel, it's hard to say. I've seen SLR's with OP and Yaris' with none.
As mentioned, paint on *all* modern cars exept ceramiclear is generally inferior to paint 10 years ago. Modern VOC laws have made it soft, prone to orange peel and thinner.
FWIW, almost all factory jobs have OP. The only "OP free" paint jobs I've seen are very expensive aftermarket jobs. The best paint I've ever seen was on a '70 AAR Cuda, and it was a ~$20,000 job.
In terms of orange peel, it's hard to say. I've seen SLR's with OP and Yaris' with none.
As mentioned, paint on *all* modern cars exept ceramiclear is generally inferior to paint 10 years ago. Modern VOC laws have made it soft, prone to orange peel and thinner.
FWIW, almost all factory jobs have OP. The only "OP free" paint jobs I've seen are very expensive aftermarket jobs. The best paint I've ever seen was on a '70 AAR Cuda, and it was a ~$20,000 job.
Hypothetically, how do you figure out (or what questions do you ask), of any paint shop to figure out if they can do the $20K type of quality paint jobs?
10-26-06, 01:47 PM
#20
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There are not many questions that you can ask and expect to get an honest answer. The best bet is to get recommendations from prior jobs performed and go and see for yourself. A $20,000 job is not out of the question. One of my "garage/trailer queens was painted in 1986 at a cost of $15,000.
10-26-06, 02:30 PM
#21
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You've seen a Yaris with literally no orange peel? I've NEVER seen a car (that I've inspected) without orange peel - even the new LS460 I was checking out on the showroom floor yesterday. I mean the paint was nice as hell and had very little orange peel - but there was still an obvious amount of it.
I've seen very few cars with no OP, one was the 20k job.
You just go by recommendation and visual inspection of prior work, reputation and feeling good with the shop/painter. As for what a 10K+ job gets you; a quality paint (glasurit etc.) little to no OP, runs, fisheyes, solvent pops, good hardness, no overspray, etc.Here is a link to that car, btw.
http://gtaindetail.com/pics/cuda073006/m.html
You could read the newspaper at 20 feet in the reflection, it's pretty wild.
10-26-06, 06:54 PM
#22
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I don't know. The '04 S2000 and '03 330i I owned previous to the IS were pretty good for a modern paint job. No issues at all with chips or scuffs.
10-26-06, 10:27 PM
#23
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Here's a topic I know something about.
First, Lexus paint thickness is now lower than other manufacturers; they are all around 12-15 microns from the factory. The only anamoly is Mercedes ceramiclear (aka, nanopaint), which is slickly thicker.
The issue with Japanese paints is they tend to be *softer* than German and domestic paints; this of course is a generalization, but it's pretty uniform. For example, Acura/Honda paint is widely considered very soft, on a scale of 1-10 I'd say it's about a 3, maybe a 4. Nissan/Infiniti paint is even worse, it's probably a 1 or 2; it's so soft in fact that it not only marrs easily but is difficult to work on, and prone to early clear coat failure. Toyota/Lexus actually has the best of the Japanese paints, though it is still soft. Not only do they typically have the least orange peel, but the paint is a good mix of easy to correct, and reasonably easy to maintain.
Germany paints, in particular Audi/VW and Mercedes, tend to be very hard. Ceramiclear is a whole different story, it's the only 10/10. BMW is somewhere around average.
Domestic paints are almost all above average for hardness, with Corvettes (only Corvettes, not all Chevys), being a solid 8-9/10.
As for orange peel; aside from wetsanding there isn't a lot a manufacturer car do, and until people stop buying the cars due to excessive OP they aren't going to do anything. New VOC regulations mean more OP using the same paint process, and they won't change that paint process unless it makes them money.
As for dullness after a few years, it depends almost entirely on care and maintenance. A well maintained Neon will have better paint than an abused Lexus.
First, Lexus paint thickness is now lower than other manufacturers; they are all around 12-15 microns from the factory. The only anamoly is Mercedes ceramiclear (aka, nanopaint), which is slickly thicker.
The issue with Japanese paints is they tend to be *softer* than German and domestic paints; this of course is a generalization, but it's pretty uniform. For example, Acura/Honda paint is widely considered very soft, on a scale of 1-10 I'd say it's about a 3, maybe a 4. Nissan/Infiniti paint is even worse, it's probably a 1 or 2; it's so soft in fact that it not only marrs easily but is difficult to work on, and prone to early clear coat failure. Toyota/Lexus actually has the best of the Japanese paints, though it is still soft. Not only do they typically have the least orange peel, but the paint is a good mix of easy to correct, and reasonably easy to maintain.
Germany paints, in particular Audi/VW and Mercedes, tend to be very hard. Ceramiclear is a whole different story, it's the only 10/10. BMW is somewhere around average.
Domestic paints are almost all above average for hardness, with Corvettes (only Corvettes, not all Chevys), being a solid 8-9/10.
As for orange peel; aside from wetsanding there isn't a lot a manufacturer car do, and until people stop buying the cars due to excessive OP they aren't going to do anything. New VOC regulations mean more OP using the same paint process, and they won't change that paint process unless it makes them money.
As for dullness after a few years, it depends almost entirely on care and maintenance. A well maintained Neon will have better paint than an abused Lexus.
10-27-06, 05:26 AM
#24
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older Lexus paints seemed more durable. Diamond White Pearl is very tough. my 95 ES had it and the paint was much thicker, harder and more resilient than the paint on my 01.
I agree Lexus paint is now soft and chips easy.
I agree Lexus paint is now soft and chips easy.
10-27-06, 05:35 AM
#25
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That's the same with almost every manufacturer. The new VOC laws in '98 really limited what they could do to keep paint hard; which is why almost all paint is now so soft and prone to chipping (and, incidentally, why it tends to have more OP now than ever before).
Current Lexus paints are also the most interesting of the Japanese brands, imo. GWP on the new IS's is a fantastic color that must be a nightmare to apply in the factory. The only thing I can think of that's close would be Nissan's Brickyard Red, but they discontinued that.
Current Lexus paints are also the most interesting of the Japanese brands, imo. GWP on the new IS's is a fantastic color that must be a nightmare to apply in the factory. The only thing I can think of that's close would be Nissan's Brickyard Red, but they discontinued that.
10-27-06, 05:35 AM
#26
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You guys seem to have covered this topic pretty well.....there isn't a whole lot I can add. In general, Toyota/Lexus paint jobs are the best if you define " best " as the smoothest with the most gloss and the least amount of orange peel. The Matador Red is an especially stunning paint job. EPA painting regulations sometimes determine what kind of paint jobs you are going to get on the average car. In general, though, Hyundai / Kia paint jobs have improved the most in recent years ( just like everything else on their vehicles ) while American-nameplate vehicles still seem to have second-rate paint jobs, except for some Cadillacs such as the STS.
10-27-06, 08:58 AM
#27
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You guys seem to have covered this topic pretty well.....there isn't a whole lot I can add. In general, Toyota/Lexus paint jobs are the best if you define " best " as the smoothest with the most gloss and the least amount of orange peel. The Matador Red is an especially stunning paint job. EPA painting regulations sometimes determine what kind of paint jobs you are going to get on the average car. In general, though, Hyundai / Kia paint jobs have improved the most in recent years ( just like everything else on their vehicles ) while American-nameplate vehicles still seem to have second-rate paint jobs, except for some Cadillacs such as the STS.
In terms of paint quality or orange peel? If paint quality/hardness/ease of maintenance then Mercedes ceramiclear, Audi/VW, and Vette's.
In terms of orange peel, it's hard to say. I've seen SLR's with OP and Yaris' with none.
As mentioned, paint on *all* modern cars exept ceramiclear is generally inferior to paint 10 years ago. Modern VOC laws have made it soft, prone to orange peel and thinner.
FWIW, almost all factory jobs have OP. The only "OP free" paint jobs I've seen are very expensive aftermarket jobs. The best paint I've ever seen was on a '70 AAR Cuda, and it was a ~$20,000 job.
In terms of orange peel, it's hard to say. I've seen SLR's with OP and Yaris' with none.
As mentioned, paint on *all* modern cars exept ceramiclear is generally inferior to paint 10 years ago. Modern VOC laws have made it soft, prone to orange peel and thinner.
FWIW, almost all factory jobs have OP. The only "OP free" paint jobs I've seen are very expensive aftermarket jobs. The best paint I've ever seen was on a '70 AAR Cuda, and it was a ~$20,000 job.
10-27-06, 11:37 AM
#28
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mmarshall and I were talking about two different things really. I am more concerned with thickness and hardness than OP. In terms of OP and gloss paint varies so much from car to car that it's really hard to say who is "best". Lexus is definitely one of the better ones in that regard so we actually agree. . In terms of "hardness" and thickness Merc, Audi, VW, and most Domestics are at the top, with Lexus being near the middle. Cheers.
. In terms of "hardness" and thickness Merc, Audi, VW, and most Domestics are at the top, with Lexus being near the middle. Cheers.
10-27-06, 01:12 PM
#29
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mmarshall and I were talking about two different things really. I am more concerned with thickness and hardness than OP. In terms of OP and gloss paint varies so much from car to car that it's really hard to say who is "best". Lexus is definitely one of the better ones in that regard so we actually agree. . In terms of "hardness" and thickness Merc, Audi, VW, and most Domestics are at the top, with Lexus being near the middle. Cheers.
. In terms of "hardness" and thickness Merc, Audi, VW, and most Domestics are at the top, with Lexus being near the middle. Cheers.
10-27-06, 01:46 PM
#30
mmarshall and I were talking about two different things really. I am more concerned with thickness and hardness than OP. In terms of OP and gloss paint varies so much from car to car that it's really hard to say who is "best". Lexus is definitely one of the better ones in that regard so we actually agree. . In terms of "hardness" and thickness Merc, Audi, VW, and most Domestics are at the top, with Lexus being near the middle. Cheers.
. In terms of "hardness" and thickness Merc, Audi, VW, and most Domestics are at the top, with Lexus being near the middle. Cheers.