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Lexus Paint Quality VS. Others

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Old 10-26-06 | 10:49 AM
  #16  
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Originally Posted by enigma888
The new LS 460 paint process is one of the best in the world, from what I've read.
Maybe so, but the LS 460L that was sitting in my local dealership's showroom left a little bit to be desired; maybe it was just the lighting inside the showroom, but the finish of the LS hood did not appear to be as smooth as that on my ES 350. I could see some very faint orange peel/ripples on the LS hood; not that I could say with any certainty that the finish on my ES is flawless, but compared to the LS finish, the finish on mine looked almost glasslike in comparison.

Now mind you--I'm not talking about the paint itself, but the clearcoat and/or whatever was done to finish the paint process. Maybe it was just that particular LS I saw in the showroom, but still a bit disappointing to see in a new-gen Lexus flagship vehicle.
Old 10-26-06 | 11:10 AM
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Originally Posted by mavericck
So who has the better paint jobs?
In terms of paint quality or orange peel? If paint quality/hardness/ease of maintenance then Mercedes ceramiclear, Audi/VW, and Vette's.

In terms of orange peel, it's hard to say. I've seen SLR's with OP and Yaris' with none.

As mentioned, paint on *all* modern cars exept ceramiclear is generally inferior to paint 10 years ago. Modern VOC laws have made it soft, prone to orange peel and thinner.

FWIW, almost all factory jobs have OP. The only "OP free" paint jobs I've seen are very expensive aftermarket jobs. The best paint I've ever seen was on a '70 AAR Cuda, and it was a ~$20,000 job.
Old 10-26-06 | 11:18 AM
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Originally Posted by picus
In terms of orange peel, it's hard to say. I've seen SLR's with OP and Yaris' with none.

You've seen a Yaris with literally no orange peel? I've NEVER seen a car (that I've inspected) without orange peel - even the new LS460 I was checking out on the showroom floor yesterday. I mean the paint was nice as hell and had very little orange peel - but there was still an obvious amount of it.
Old 10-26-06 | 11:19 AM
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Originally Posted by picus
In terms of paint quality or orange peel? If paint quality/hardness/ease of maintenance then Mercedes ceramiclear, Audi/VW, and Vette's.

In terms of orange peel, it's hard to say. I've seen SLR's with OP and Yaris' with none.

As mentioned, paint on *all* modern cars exept ceramiclear is generally inferior to paint 10 years ago. Modern VOC laws have made it soft, prone to orange peel and thinner.

FWIW, almost all factory jobs have OP. The only "OP free" paint jobs I've seen are very expensive aftermarket jobs. The best paint I've ever seen was on a '70 AAR Cuda, and it was a ~$20,000 job.
Wow, $20K for a paint job? Interesting.

Hypothetically, how do you figure out (or what questions do you ask), of any paint shop to figure out if they can do the $20K type of quality paint jobs?
Old 10-26-06 | 01:47 PM
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Originally Posted by Hameed
Wow, $20K for a paint job? Interesting.

Hypothetically, how do you figure out (or what questions do you ask), of any paint shop to figure out if they can do the $20K type of quality paint jobs?
There are not many questions that you can ask and expect to get an honest answer. The best bet is to get recommendations from prior jobs performed and go and see for yourself. A $20,000 job is not out of the question. One of my "garage/trailer queens was painted in 1986 at a cost of $15,000.
Old 10-26-06 | 02:30 PM
  #21  
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Originally Posted by Threxx
You've seen a Yaris with literally no orange peel? I've NEVER seen a car (that I've inspected) without orange peel - even the new LS460 I was checking out on the showroom floor yesterday. I mean the paint was nice as hell and had very little orange peel - but there was still an obvious amount of it.
I was being faceatious, but ya I've seen Yaris's (Yarii?) with less OP than SLR's. I've not seen a factory painted car with no OP.

I've seen very few cars with no OP, one was the 20k job.

Originally Posted by Hameed
Wow, $20K for a paint job? Interesting.

Hypothetically, how do you figure out (or what questions do you ask), of any paint shop to figure out if they can do the $20K type of quality paint jobs?
As mentioned there isn't much you can ask, becuase unless you know the paint process if they are worth 20k they will know a hell of a lot more than you. You just go by recommendation and visual inspection of prior work, reputation and feeling good with the shop/painter. As for what a 10K+ job gets you; a quality paint (glasurit etc.) little to no OP, runs, fisheyes, solvent pops, good hardness, no overspray, etc.

Here is a link to that car, btw.

http://gtaindetail.com/pics/cuda073006/m.html

You could read the newspaper at 20 feet in the reflection, it's pretty wild.
Old 10-26-06 | 06:54 PM
  #22  
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Originally Posted by toy4two
Problem is all modern cars paint sucks just as bad. Your best bet is to add those new clear film "bras" I think they are mandatory with today's paints.
I don't know. The '04 S2000 and '03 330i I owned previous to the IS were pretty good for a modern paint job. No issues at all with chips or scuffs.
Old 10-26-06 | 10:27 PM
  #23  
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Originally Posted by picus
Here's a topic I know something about.

First, Lexus paint thickness is now lower than other manufacturers; they are all around 12-15 microns from the factory. The only anamoly is Mercedes ceramiclear (aka, nanopaint), which is slickly thicker.

The issue with Japanese paints is they tend to be *softer* than German and domestic paints; this of course is a generalization, but it's pretty uniform. For example, Acura/Honda paint is widely considered very soft, on a scale of 1-10 I'd say it's about a 3, maybe a 4. Nissan/Infiniti paint is even worse, it's probably a 1 or 2; it's so soft in fact that it not only marrs easily but is difficult to work on, and prone to early clear coat failure. Toyota/Lexus actually has the best of the Japanese paints, though it is still soft. Not only do they typically have the least orange peel, but the paint is a good mix of easy to correct, and reasonably easy to maintain.

Germany paints, in particular Audi/VW and Mercedes, tend to be very hard. Ceramiclear is a whole different story, it's the only 10/10. BMW is somewhere around average.

Domestic paints are almost all above average for hardness, with Corvettes (only Corvettes, not all Chevys), being a solid 8-9/10.

As for orange peel; aside from wetsanding there isn't a lot a manufacturer car do, and until people stop buying the cars due to excessive OP they aren't going to do anything. New VOC regulations mean more OP using the same paint process, and they won't change that paint process unless it makes them money.

As for dullness after a few years, it depends almost entirely on care and maintenance. A well maintained Neon will have better paint than an abused Lexus.
I'll take your word for it
Old 10-27-06 | 05:26 AM
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older Lexus paints seemed more durable. Diamond White Pearl is very tough. my 95 ES had it and the paint was much thicker, harder and more resilient than the paint on my 01.
I agree Lexus paint is now soft and chips easy.
Old 10-27-06 | 05:35 AM
  #25  
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That's the same with almost every manufacturer. The new VOC laws in '98 really limited what they could do to keep paint hard; which is why almost all paint is now so soft and prone to chipping (and, incidentally, why it tends to have more OP now than ever before).

Current Lexus paints are also the most interesting of the Japanese brands, imo. GWP on the new IS's is a fantastic color that must be a nightmare to apply in the factory. The only thing I can think of that's close would be Nissan's Brickyard Red, but they discontinued that.
Old 10-27-06 | 05:35 AM
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You guys seem to have covered this topic pretty well.....there isn't a whole lot I can add. In general, Toyota/Lexus paint jobs are the best if you define " best " as the smoothest with the most gloss and the least amount of orange peel. The Matador Red is an especially stunning paint job. EPA painting regulations sometimes determine what kind of paint jobs you are going to get on the average car. In general, though, Hyundai / Kia paint jobs have improved the most in recent years ( just like everything else on their vehicles ) while American-nameplate vehicles still seem to have second-rate paint jobs, except for some Cadillacs such as the STS.
Old 10-27-06 | 08:58 AM
  #27  
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Originally Posted by mmarshall
You guys seem to have covered this topic pretty well.....there isn't a whole lot I can add. In general, Toyota/Lexus paint jobs are the best if you define " best " as the smoothest with the most gloss and the least amount of orange peel. The Matador Red is an especially stunning paint job. EPA painting regulations sometimes determine what kind of paint jobs you are going to get on the average car. In general, though, Hyundai / Kia paint jobs have improved the most in recent years ( just like everything else on their vehicles ) while American-nameplate vehicles still seem to have second-rate paint jobs, except for some Cadillacs such as the STS.
Thats not what Picus said.

In terms of paint quality or orange peel? If paint quality/hardness/ease of maintenance then Mercedes ceramiclear, Audi/VW, and Vette's.

In terms of orange peel, it's hard to say. I've seen SLR's with OP and Yaris' with none.

As mentioned, paint on *all* modern cars exept ceramiclear is generally inferior to paint 10 years ago. Modern VOC laws have made it soft, prone to orange peel and thinner.

FWIW, almost all factory jobs have OP. The only "OP free" paint jobs I've seen are very expensive aftermarket jobs. The best paint I've ever seen was on a '70 AAR Cuda, and it was a ~$20,000 job.
Old 10-27-06 | 11:37 AM
  #28  
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mmarshall and I were talking about two different things really. I am more concerned with thickness and hardness than OP. In terms of OP and gloss paint varies so much from car to car that it's really hard to say who is "best". Lexus is definitely one of the better ones in that regard so we actually agree. . In terms of "hardness" and thickness Merc, Audi, VW, and most Domestics are at the top, with Lexus being near the middle. Cheers.
Old 10-27-06 | 01:12 PM
  #29  
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Originally Posted by picus
mmarshall and I were talking about two different things really. I am more concerned with thickness and hardness than OP. In terms of OP and gloss paint varies so much from car to car that it's really hard to say who is "best". Lexus is definitely one of the better ones in that regard so we actually agree. . In terms of "hardness" and thickness Merc, Audi, VW, and most Domestics are at the top, with Lexus being near the middle. Cheers.
oh, now i see
Old 10-27-06 | 01:46 PM
  #30  
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Originally Posted by picus
mmarshall and I were talking about two different things really. I am more concerned with thickness and hardness than OP. In terms of OP and gloss paint varies so much from car to car that it's really hard to say who is "best". Lexus is definitely one of the better ones in that regard so we actually agree. . In terms of "hardness" and thickness Merc, Audi, VW, and most Domestics are at the top, with Lexus being near the middle. Cheers.
Picus, as a detailer, don't you prefer cars that are near middle of the road as opposed to hard such as VW? I find VWs a pain to work on. "Hardness" I guess would benefit the average consumer who doesn't get his/her car detailed but as a non-professional detailer, I find it's much easier working with "softer" paints.



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