mmarshall

You actually have more control over the car with an SMT or DSG than with a pure manual with a foot-operated clutch. It takes time to push in the clutch, move the shift lever, and then bring your left foot back up again, especially if you want to save wear on the the synchros and have to heel-and-toe or double-clutch....all the while with the possibility that you nicked the wrong gear and have to RE-shift. You don't have any of those problems with a properly used automanual.....and can go from gear to gear even quicker. It even matches RPMs for you.

ff_

But it's every bit as geriatric as an automatic.

Automatic transmission: Being fed pureed liver through a feeding tube
SMG/DSG: Having your wife cut up your rump steak, so you can eat it with your hands
Manual transmission: Going to town on a medium rare 20 OZ prime rib with a steak knife in one hand, a fork in the other, and a frosty mug of Fosters lager close by.

Anyone else hungry for Outback Steakhouse right about now...?

SteVTEC

No way.

Any computer that gets between you and the car means less control. SMGs are well known to go through fits of bucking and in general be pretty miserable in slow moving city type traffic. You can easily control this with a full manual by just coasting and getting on and off the clutch as needed rather than bucking. And DSG sounds cool too, but no idea how those are in traffic, and I thought I read that they can't skip gears on downshifts. So would that mean that you have to go 6-5-4-3 just to do a 6-3 downshift? I'm not sure but that's what I heard. You could do that easily with a full manual and rev matching.

SMG and DSG type transmissions may execute some operations faster and with more precision, and that's what the marketing people hype up. But I think that's the wrong metric to be using and not fully relevant, and that they're still not nearly as smart, flexible, adaptive, or predictive as your own brain is. You can do only what the computer will let you do which is not what I would call more control.

SteVTEC

BTW,

on a true manual M5. I've read of more than a few people going from E60's back to E39 M5's just because they hated the SMG.

also on U.S. diesels. I can't wait for these, but 2008 (calendar year I assume) will be too long for me to wait. Maybe I'll get one next time around.

DrDrilZ

QFT
may even be worse than i-drive.

Gojirra99

Exactly There's no real substitute for a true manual with a foot-operated clutch.

mmarshall

OK...I understand what you guys are saying about a stick. Your comments, Andrew, do have validity. A stick DOES give you more FEEL of the car, yes, but I guess I just don't define having more control in the same way that some of you do....like SteVTEC's comment about the computer. The way I define having more control, an SMG or DSG gives you instantaneous response the instant you want it, whereas a clutch and manual shift, despite the added feel, takes a couple of seconds to engage ( unless you speedshift and tear the linkage up ) ...that's all I was saying. I guess it's just a matter of how you look at it and define it...the way I define control is not necessarily by tactile feel. But then again, I am not the type of driver that is likely to buy an M5 or M6 to start with, ( nor do I quite have the spare cash required ) so I guess in some ways my comments don't really count.

doug_999

Rumor has it the SMG is the transmission of choice at the track.

STIG

Why can't Toyota listen to consumers (mostly enthusiasts) like BMW does?

Enthusiasts want manual in M5, and they bring the stick shift to the consumers.

We want stick for IS350 and they give us stick for IS250? wtf?

We want Supra back and we've been waiting for many many years and there is still no sign of Supra.

Toyota is too much of a profit oriented manufacturer and it's difficult to see their heart in their products.

I don't see myself buying another Toyota for performance car.

adidosc

link doesn't work mike.

ninous26

shifter is too plain. nice nonetheless

SteVTEC

yes, this is where SMG truly shines. Unfortunately you can't drive on the streets like you do at the track.

mmarshall

Some people don't let that stop them.

LexFather

I smell a poll....
SMG with the ability to disable all electronics
6 speed manual but you cannot disable all electronics

doug_999

Mike
Where can I find the info on disabling/not disabling the traction control with the manual?

Thanks
Doug