ff_

Precisely. It's one thing to be a fan of a certain brand or brands. But quite another to be a brand snob.

PhilipMSPT

iTrader: (5)

I think people have to realize that there is not one car out there that is perfect for everyone. In fact, I'm pretty sure that there is not one car out there that is perfect for any individual. We all make compromises in the car buying process, whether it deals with price, amenities, safety, quality, brand appeal, or the such.

We all need to listen to both sides of the war. People who love Lexus understand what's great about it, and it is our job to continue demanding such greatness to evolve the brand. People who hate Lexus understand what is lack-luster with the brand, and it is our job to continue demanding such shortcomings to evolve the brand.

The problem in the war is ignorance and arrogance. There are a lot of people who have subjective comments about the brand with absolutely no objective data to back it up. (This includes certain magazines that score a car based on "Gotta have it" or "Driver appeal" scoring... )

The great this about our Forum: we rid of as much ignorance as possible to promote education and understanding between the pro-Lexus and anti-Lexus parties. By doing so, our Forum has become one of the most respected car enthusiast sites without being hyperfocused on one brand alone.

GS3Tek

iTrader: (8)

Interesting topic TRD

I believe that Lexus has gotten the reliability and luxury down-for the most part. And as long as they have the IS and GS (for their luxury sport vs. sport luxury division ) they should be able to offer higher performance so enthusiasts can enjoy even more
IMO, I remember the very first introduction of the 2nd Gen GS 400 with 300 hp, Lexus was starting to get sporty But before that with the ES250 and LS, they were just about luxury.

If you want to talk about arrogance, I can't stand other forums where just one word of "Lexus" will get you chastised. I only talk about that brand on that board b/c people are just too narrow minded.

My goodness, you pay for the car, you pay for the service, why must people defend that company so much? Did that company ever stand by you when you have trouble???

Here, other members including myself have owned several other brands where we are not biased and can share our experience (not just lexus only).

Bottom line, YES we want more out of Lexus while staying with Lexus. Of course there are other brands out there

But you're right though. People are leaving Lexus because they haven't fulfilled that extra performance category that enthusiasts want.

Threxx

I'm here because I appreciate and enjoy all cars, including Lexus vehicles. In fact Lexus is among my top 3 favorite car companies and by some measures they're my favorite, and in other measures they're definitely not.

I think it's more closed-minded and anti-productive to expect a message board to be one giant "support group meeting" where everybody does nothing but ignore the outside world and only talk positively about the things they're focused on and negatively toward any alternative points of view.

I participate on many car forums - not just this one... honda, toyota, lexus, edmunds, chevrolet, GM (as a whole), Ford, audi, BMW... I mean seriously... name most any major forum out there for cars and I at least lurk and have a username, if not actively post there from time to time.

Almost ALL of them have threads like this where somebody complains that too many people are anti-(insert the brand their board is themed around here)... and it just makes me laugh because to complain that you hear too much talk that isn't worshiping the local brand of choice is to literally choose ignorance over intelligence. Why would anybody want to do that unless they're trying to fool themselves for the convenience of it all?

If anything this board, outside of car chat, seems to need a little more outsider perspective or at least fewer fan boys and more realists. I can make a post about how awesome lexus is or how awesome some new feature or model or specification on a lexus model is and have a multi-page thread of responses. But if I post a complaint about my car, half the people in there get all defensive like I must be lying or like I'm over-reacting. How can somebody get so worked up and excited about their car having an auto-open sunroof (or some other relatively trivial feature), then turn around and tell somebody that they're making too big of a deal about a starter replacement costing them five times more than it would on any other car.
Seems like selective listening to me.

G Star

iTrader: (2)

I actually agree with him. This L-Finesse thing is getting a little carried away with. they all look similar, no room for unique(ness). Then again, Mercedes does the exact same thing, and BMW.

CK6Speed

iTrader: (1)

In the Car Chat section I don't really expect much Lexus talk at all. That is generally for the Lexus specific forums. Car Chat is just that. To talk about anything cars of any brand. Your topic examples above sounds like some of the anti Acura or Infiniti Lexus owners as well. Just as often we see Lexus owners posting about Acura doesn't have prestige. Acura doesn't have RWD, Acura doesn't have a V8. Infiniti interiors have cheap plastic. BMW is too stiff. Mercedes reliability is terrible.

I don't really see too much anti Lexus talk in general as opposed to just talk from non pro Lexus owners. As a Lexus owner, I realize that Lexus fulfills a certain need that I have. I also own/owned other brands of cars as well. I generally do not like any brand totally across its model line. Lexus only have a few cars that I really like. BMW only has a few models and so forth. I don't mind people finding fault with Lexus, but what I don't like is the obvious blinded bias that one brand is outright better than any other in all aspects. Those that think that I just ignore. Those that praise and find fault in both Lexus and other brands are the ones I value their opinion.

Ice350

iTrader: (1)

I criticize everything, things I like and things I don't like.....including cars. As much as a love the Lexus brand, I can criticize when I think it's due. Because nothing is perfect. I find CL to be an excellent way to voice opinions. It's good clean fun. Watching TV has become harder with vulgar language and sexually driven material. Here there's no cursing, no T & A....just clean conversation. I love a lively debate, too. On top of it all, the main subject matter is cars. I consider it nirvana.

okcfunky

For as long as there are enthusiasts, there will always be hate and love.
Whenever there is a substantial change in any model, there is an automatic fragmentation of enthusiasts, Porsche, BMW, Chevy, it doesn't matter the marquee, it happens to them all. Among the pro/anti rantings of the enthusiasts however, you develop a filter for useful information. An extreme opinion should always be backed up by homework, if not, add it background noise.

In respect to Lexus, I find an understandable opinion of the L-Finesse vs older, and I have to pick and choice among the models as to which it applies. I love my 3GS430, but I really would have loved to gotten a 2GS430 equally as much. Both would have fit my needs however. I'm still on the fence deciding on the overall execution of the 3GS and the contemporary styling and engineering decisions. I've got a few non-cosmetic issues, but nothing that has broke the dam.

mmarshall

Well....there is often a valid reason for those rantings. Often.....too often.....automakers simply change their products for the sake of change, and don't really improve them. And if you try and fix something that ain't broke, you have to expect some of the auto-buying public to protest.....especially enthusiasts who like their vehicles just as they are.

LexFather

Bah, I have posted less if that is imaginable sometimes b/c this is CLUBLEXUS and to me, many times, it's like I come home to get beat up, b/c some of the comments made, especially by some of the same people, are ridiculous.

Look, I can read anti-Lexus crap and propoganda EVERYWHERE else, for the top selling brand and clearly, most wanted by actual BUYERS, there is a lot of hate for the brand. So I can read that elsewhere.

When I have to come here, MY HOME, and read it over and over again, its old. Yes we know Lexus is more boring, no their styling is not perfect, no their quality is not perfect, yet, some people feel the need to state this everytime.

Clublexus is as unbiased as you will get on a car forum (we ain't perfect) and some people take advantage of the fact we are willing to accept hate for Lexus and keep those here that clearly don't like the brand but for some reason, want to be here to remind us.

Funny but I've met a few people in person that I thought we didn't get along on the internet and it's always been cool and cordial.

Internet thugsz for the win!

spwolf

haha, true... there are more BMW fanboys here than Lexus fans on BMW forums... but that just tells you who is leading the pack right now...

ARISTO 161

iTrader: (3)

haha hey gang!


all i have to say:

1) automobile market share is pretty much DOMINATED by Toyota!
2) consumer reports on reliability:
#1 Lexus
#2 Honda
#3 Toyota !!!
3) if you can't respect and have passion for other car makes, you probably drive like those "M3 drivers" hahaha hooray for STEREOTYPING!

cowdung

This is the biggest UTTER NONSENSE anyone has written on an internet forum. I belong to a lot of car forums, since i own 12 high end cars and i can tell you by the little time i have spent reading thru this site that Lexus owners are truly snobs. I have read comments like "Acura is not in the same league as Lexus because its not luxury." Some of the most BIASED comments i have read is on this forum. People have this stigma that no one can touch lexus with comments like "Well i bought a lexus so i wouldnt have to deal with this or that and since i bought a lexus i want it to be perfect" Lexus is not perfect and never will be. NO car manufacturer is but on this forum the blinded demand perfection because it carries the Lexus badge. I dont call those people unbiased. I dont even need to prove this point since the genesis of this thread is all the proof there is as to why lexus owners are so sensitive about their loyalty to this brand. How pathetic do you have to be to start a thread about "Lexus bashing" in the CAR CHAT forum whose sole purpose is for people to explore and talk about OTHER cars but Lexus'. Lexus owners need to grow up and be thicker skinned. I am sorry but after reading thru these forums, I have no respect for lexus owners(yes i own one and i know) and i can tell you guys one thing, I will never buy a lexus again even though my best friend happens to work for corporate lexus and the one that got me the LS460 for 1/2 the price that others are paying for on the forum. I own cars that are worth 4 times that of the LS460 and those forums dont have the snob appeal that Lexus owners have. Sorry but had to get off my chest!!!!

doug_999

Ahh yes, above is a prime example of as Bit says "Conversely, some of the Lexus fans on this site have a big need to prove to the rest that Lexus vehicles are always better than everything else."

ES350Bob

Brand Histrionics