November 2006 Car Sales Thread!
12-01-06, 03:06 PM
#31
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Lexus - 285,000
MB - 219,678
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12-01-06, 03:17 PM
#33
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Irrelevant. What's Mercedes selling? Their stable of new SUVs, and the E Class and C Class?
What's BMW selling? 3 Series?
And I don't think you want me to dig into BMW and Mercedes Europe sales to see how much of their sales are pumped up by bargain basement A Classes, 1 Series, and A3s.
What's BMW selling? 3 Series?
And I don't think you want me to dig into BMW and Mercedes Europe sales to see how much of their sales are pumped up by bargain basement A Classes, 1 Series, and A3s.
12-01-06, 03:52 PM
#34
Irrelevant. What's Mercedes selling? Their stable of new SUVs, and the E Class and C Class?
What's BMW selling? 3 Series?
And I don't think you want me to dig into BMW and Mercedes Europe sales to see how much of their sales are pumped up by bargain basement A Classes, 1 Series, and A3s.
What's BMW selling? 3 Series?
And I don't think you want me to dig into BMW and Mercedes Europe sales to see how much of their sales are pumped up by bargain basement A Classes, 1 Series, and A3s.
Similar with SUV, it's just recent that BMW made the X3 to complete with RX, MB still has nothing lower than ML.
So far MB and BMW are making a joke out of the GS and IS with their C class, E class, 3 and 5 series. The S class is behind LS, but not like in the old days when LS400 outsold 7 series and S class combined by a great margin. Also, with the new 7 series coming soon, it will provide stiff competition to the LS.
Now don't get me wrong, I'm not bashing Lexus, afterall I've been a loyal Lexus owner and currently own two of them - GS430 and LS400. But it is clear to me that there is a problem, and I wish Lexus would do something to address it.
I personally find the IS to be a superior car to the 3 series, and much more so to the aging cheezy C class. Yet, it appears most customers do not share my view. And what's going to happen once the new C class is out?
Same with the GS - much better car than the 5 series and E class. Sure, you can say BMW has M5 and MB has E55, but thats not what they are selling, they are selling 525 and E320, which are about as exciting as Buick Lucernses, but they still easily outselling the GS.
It is beyond me why people aren't buying IS and GS. You could say it's the badge, but then why is LS outselling S class and 7 series?
12-01-06, 04:17 PM
#35
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Forget Europe, we are in the USA, and in this country the lowest models MB and BMW have are C class and 3 series, which compete against the IS. The ES is a class lower, and MB and BMW do not have a model to compete with it.
Similar with SUV, it's just recent that BMW made the X3 to complete with RX, MB still has nothing lower than ML.
So far MB and BMW are making a joke out of the GS and IS with their C class, E class, 3 and 5 series. The S class is behind LS, but not like in the old days when LS400 outsold 7 series and S class combined by a great margin. Also, with the new 7 series coming soon, it will provide stiff competition to the LS.
Now don't get me wrong, I'm not bashing Lexus, afterall I've been a loyal Lexus owner and currently own two of them - GS430 and LS400. But it is clear to me that there is a problem, and I wish Lexus would do something to address it.
I personally find the IS to be a superior car to the 3 series, and much more so to the aging cheezy C class. Yet, it appears most customers do not share my view. And what's going to happen once the new C class is out?
Same with the GS - much better car than the 5 series and E class. Sure, you can say BMW has M5 and MB has E55, but thats not what they are selling, they are selling 525 and E320, which are about as exciting as Buick Lucernses, but they still easily outselling the GS.
It is beyond me why people aren't buying IS and GS. You could say it's the badge, but then why is LS outselling S class and 7 series?
Similar with SUV, it's just recent that BMW made the X3 to complete with RX, MB still has nothing lower than ML.
So far MB and BMW are making a joke out of the GS and IS with their C class, E class, 3 and 5 series. The S class is behind LS, but not like in the old days when LS400 outsold 7 series and S class combined by a great margin. Also, with the new 7 series coming soon, it will provide stiff competition to the LS.
Now don't get me wrong, I'm not bashing Lexus, afterall I've been a loyal Lexus owner and currently own two of them - GS430 and LS400. But it is clear to me that there is a problem, and I wish Lexus would do something to address it.
I personally find the IS to be a superior car to the 3 series, and much more so to the aging cheezy C class. Yet, it appears most customers do not share my view. And what's going to happen once the new C class is out?
Same with the GS - much better car than the 5 series and E class. Sure, you can say BMW has M5 and MB has E55, but thats not what they are selling, they are selling 525 and E320, which are about as exciting as Buick Lucernses, but they still easily outselling the GS.
It is beyond me why people aren't buying IS and GS. You could say it's the badge, but then why is LS outselling S class and 7 series?
But wait, in the US, Audi too offers the A3, which starts at 25K. Pretty sad isn't it?
Let's do a comparison here. The IS starts at 30K, the ES starts at 33K, and the RX starts at about 37K and the GS starts at 44K.
With BMW, the 3 Series starts at 32K, the 5 Series starts at 43K, and the X3 starts at 38K.
With Mercedes, the C Class too starts at 30K, the E Class starts at 51K, and the R Class starts at 43K.
The ES is a class lower? Hmmm that's funny considering how it's base price is higher than C Class, 3 Series, and the IS. So what then does it compete with? Itself? Give me a break.
Fact is, Lexus is using it's own unique 2 model line approach to the entry luxury market. Both BMW and Mercedes use a 1 model line approach. The ES and IS combined easily match, and often outsell the entire 3 Series line, and make a joke out of C Class sales. Whether you like it or not, the ES is a competitor in this segment.
You're right, it's not like the old days, where as I mentioned before, the LS used to cost half that of the S Class and 7 Series. LS prices today are much closer to the 7 Series and S Class. Look at the LS forums; quite a few owners paid over 70K for their LS. Wait a couple of months before making any conclusions about LS sales.
BMW has never been a big player in the luxury sedan segment in North America. Lexus years ago made a splash with the GS, but now it's become a lot more competitive and the GS needs to be bolstered to better compete.
New 7 Series is highly rumoured to be smaller and lighter than the current model. That would be suicide on BMW's part, and certainly would not harm LS sales.
People *are* buying the IS, and to a lesser extent, the GS, just not as much as the German competition. People though are definitely buying the ES. The E Class and 5 Series have a huge reputation that the GS can't match. The IS is more competitive with the 3 Series and C Class than the GS is with the 5 Series and the E Class. The E Class was recently updated, so that may explain one reason for increased sales.
Also keep in mind that Mercedes and BMW spend more on incentives than Lexus does.
Lexus promised last year, back when the 3GS came out, that it would make more frequent updates to all future models to be more competitive, and that's what they are doing with the GS engine upgrades and the IS V8 and Coupe models. The only thing is that they don't get delayed and come to market in a suitable amount of time as to not lose competitiveness.
12-01-06, 04:44 PM
#36
"Toyota, the world's second-largest automaker, expects to sell 12,000 Corollas a month in Japan, it said on Oct. 10. The automaker sells two versions of the Corolla in Japan, a sedan called the Corolla Axio and a station wagon called the Corolla Fielder.
The company also released the Lexus LS sedan on Sept. 19, which helped sales of the brand surge 43 percent to 5,063 vehicles in November. Toyota also started selling the Auris hatchback in October, and it plans to release the Blade hatchback in Japan later this month."
http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?p...d=aQ8EvzdjViZg
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Wow, so big part of the Lexus sales increase is thanks to the new LS. At this rate, they are catching up to the German brands in their home market quickly. The LS600h arrives in a few months, and that will definitely take a lot of conquest buyers. The GS450h in Japan, according to figures I've seen, has a conquest rate of about 30 - 40%, much higher than the regular GS. The conquest rates in North America for the GS450h are also quite high. Hybrids are becoming a unique thing for Lexus. The Lexus supercar, and new SC will be a big image boost for Lexus in Japan.
The company also released the Lexus LS sedan on Sept. 19, which helped sales of the brand surge 43 percent to 5,063 vehicles in November. Toyota also started selling the Auris hatchback in October, and it plans to release the Blade hatchback in Japan later this month."
http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?p...d=aQ8EvzdjViZg
------------------------------------------------------
Wow, so big part of the Lexus sales increase is thanks to the new LS. At this rate, they are catching up to the German brands in their home market quickly. The LS600h arrives in a few months, and that will definitely take a lot of conquest buyers. The GS450h in Japan, according to figures I've seen, has a conquest rate of about 30 - 40%, much higher than the regular GS. The conquest rates in North America for the GS450h are also quite high. Hybrids are becoming a unique thing for Lexus. The Lexus supercar, and new SC will be a big image boost for Lexus in Japan.
12-01-06, 04:55 PM
#37
ES350. Another reason is Infiniti significantly upgraded their
sedans with the M and the G.
Critics of the GS do have a point in that the car comes up short
with respect to the competition. The fact that the LS is WAY
better also can't be helping.
What puzzles me Och is why you are ripping on Lexus when the
brand that is really a complete disaster is Acura. The magnificent
RL struggles to break 1000 every month
Edit : Nov 06 RL sales - 731
Last edited by marshmallo; 12-01-06 at 04:59 PM.
12-01-06, 05:11 PM
#38
B Classes in Canada are selling great, not to mention Audi A3s aren't doing too bad here sales-wise. So we are in North America, and YES, some of the German makers *do* offer models below the ES and RX.
But wait, in the US, Audi too offers the A3, which starts at 25K. Pretty sad isn't it?
Let's do a comparison here. The IS starts at 30K, the ES starts at 33K, and the RX starts at about 37K and the GS starts at 44K.
With BMW, the 3 Series starts at 32K, the 5 Series starts at 43K, and the X3 starts at 38K.
With Mercedes, the C Class too starts at 30K, the E Class starts at 51K, and the R Class starts at 43K.
The ES is a class lower? Hmmm that's funny considering how it's base price is higher than C Class, 3 Series, and the IS. So what then does it compete with? Itself? Give me a break.
Fact is, Lexus is using it's own unique 2 model line approach to the entry luxury market. Both BMW and Mercedes use a 1 model line approach. The ES and IS combined easily match, and often outsell the entire 3 Series line, and make a joke out of C Class sales. Whether you like it or not, the ES is a competitor in this segment.
You're right, it's not like the old days, where as I mentioned before, the LS used to cost half that of the S Class and 7 Series. LS prices today are much closer to the 7 Series and S Class. Look at the LS forums; quite a few owners paid over 70K for their LS. Wait a couple of months before making any conclusions about LS sales.
BMW has never been a big player in the luxury sedan segment in North America. Lexus years ago made a splash with the GS, but now it's become a lot more competitive and the GS needs to be bolstered to better compete.
New 7 Series is highly rumoured to be smaller and lighter than the current model. That would be suicide on BMW's part, and certainly would not harm LS sales.
People *are* buying the IS, and to a lesser extent, the GS, just not as much as the German competition. People though are definitely buying the ES. The E Class and 5 Series have a huge reputation that the GS can't match. The IS is more competitive with the 3 Series and C Class than the GS is with the 5 Series and the E Class. The E Class was recently updated, so that may explain one reason for increased sales.
Also keep in mind that Mercedes and BMW spend more on incentives than Lexus does.
Lexus promised last year, back when the 3GS came out, that it would make more frequent updates to all future models to be more competitive, and that's what they are doing with the GS engine upgrades and the IS V8 and Coupe models. The only thing is that they don't get delayed and come to market in a suitable amount of time as to not lose competitiveness.
But wait, in the US, Audi too offers the A3, which starts at 25K. Pretty sad isn't it?
Let's do a comparison here. The IS starts at 30K, the ES starts at 33K, and the RX starts at about 37K and the GS starts at 44K.
With BMW, the 3 Series starts at 32K, the 5 Series starts at 43K, and the X3 starts at 38K.
With Mercedes, the C Class too starts at 30K, the E Class starts at 51K, and the R Class starts at 43K.
The ES is a class lower? Hmmm that's funny considering how it's base price is higher than C Class, 3 Series, and the IS. So what then does it compete with? Itself? Give me a break.
Fact is, Lexus is using it's own unique 2 model line approach to the entry luxury market. Both BMW and Mercedes use a 1 model line approach. The ES and IS combined easily match, and often outsell the entire 3 Series line, and make a joke out of C Class sales. Whether you like it or not, the ES is a competitor in this segment.
You're right, it's not like the old days, where as I mentioned before, the LS used to cost half that of the S Class and 7 Series. LS prices today are much closer to the 7 Series and S Class. Look at the LS forums; quite a few owners paid over 70K for their LS. Wait a couple of months before making any conclusions about LS sales.
BMW has never been a big player in the luxury sedan segment in North America. Lexus years ago made a splash with the GS, but now it's become a lot more competitive and the GS needs to be bolstered to better compete.
New 7 Series is highly rumoured to be smaller and lighter than the current model. That would be suicide on BMW's part, and certainly would not harm LS sales.
People *are* buying the IS, and to a lesser extent, the GS, just not as much as the German competition. People though are definitely buying the ES. The E Class and 5 Series have a huge reputation that the GS can't match. The IS is more competitive with the 3 Series and C Class than the GS is with the 5 Series and the E Class. The E Class was recently updated, so that may explain one reason for increased sales.
Also keep in mind that Mercedes and BMW spend more on incentives than Lexus does.
Lexus promised last year, back when the 3GS came out, that it would make more frequent updates to all future models to be more competitive, and that's what they are doing with the GS engine upgrades and the IS V8 and Coupe models. The only thing is that they don't get delayed and come to market in a suitable amount of time as to not lose competitiveness.
Also, the GS is in no way any worse than 5 series or E class. Like I said before, sure, the M5 and E55 aren't matched by the GS, however GS350 is light years ahead of 525/530 or E350.
12-01-06, 05:13 PM
#39
Part of the reason the GS and IS are not selling that well is the
ES350. Another reason is Infiniti significantly upgraded their
sedans with the M and the G.
Critics of the GS do have a point in that the car comes up short
with respect to the competition. The fact that the LS is WAY
better also can't be helping.
What puzzles me Och is why you are ripping on Lexus when the
brand that is really a complete disaster is Acura. The magnificent
RL struggles to break 1000 every month
Edit : Nov 06 RL sales - 731
ES350. Another reason is Infiniti significantly upgraded their
sedans with the M and the G.
Critics of the GS do have a point in that the car comes up short
with respect to the competition. The fact that the LS is WAY
better also can't be helping.
What puzzles me Och is why you are ripping on Lexus when the
brand that is really a complete disaster is Acura. The magnificent
RL struggles to break 1000 every month
Edit : Nov 06 RL sales - 731
Easily explained - no V8. If Acura finally decides to offer the RL with V8, I'm gonna get rid of my GS and get the RL that same day.
12-01-06, 05:24 PM
#40
12-01-06, 05:55 PM
#41
Forget Europe, we are in the USA, and in this country the lowest models MB and BMW have are C class and 3 series, which compete against the IS. The ES is a class lower, and MB and BMW do not have a model to compete with it.
Similar with SUV, it's just recent that BMW made the X3 to complete with RX, MB still has nothing lower than ML.
So far MB and BMW are making a joke out of the GS and IS with their C class, E class, 3 and 5 series. The S class is behind LS, but not like in the old days when LS400 outsold 7 series and S class combined by a great margin. Also, with the new 7 series coming soon, it will provide stiff competition to the LS.
Now don't get me wrong, I'm not bashing Lexus, afterall I've been a loyal Lexus owner and currently own two of them - GS430 and LS400. But it is clear to me that there is a problem, and I wish Lexus would do something to address it.
I personally find the IS to be a superior car to the 3 series, and much more so to the aging cheezy C class. Yet, it appears most customers do not share my view. And what's going to happen once the new C class is out?
Same with the GS - much better car than the 5 series and E class. Sure, you can say BMW has M5 and MB has E55, but thats not what they are selling, they are selling 525 and E320, which are about as exciting as Buick Lucernses, but they still easily outselling the GS.
It is beyond me why people aren't buying IS and GS. You could say it's the badge, but then why is LS outselling S class and 7 series?
Similar with SUV, it's just recent that BMW made the X3 to complete with RX, MB still has nothing lower than ML.
So far MB and BMW are making a joke out of the GS and IS with their C class, E class, 3 and 5 series. The S class is behind LS, but not like in the old days when LS400 outsold 7 series and S class combined by a great margin. Also, with the new 7 series coming soon, it will provide stiff competition to the LS.
Now don't get me wrong, I'm not bashing Lexus, afterall I've been a loyal Lexus owner and currently own two of them - GS430 and LS400. But it is clear to me that there is a problem, and I wish Lexus would do something to address it.
I personally find the IS to be a superior car to the 3 series, and much more so to the aging cheezy C class. Yet, it appears most customers do not share my view. And what's going to happen once the new C class is out?
Same with the GS - much better car than the 5 series and E class. Sure, you can say BMW has M5 and MB has E55, but thats not what they are selling, they are selling 525 and E320, which are about as exciting as Buick Lucernses, but they still easily outselling the GS.
It is beyond me why people aren't buying IS and GS. You could say it's the badge, but then why is LS outselling S class and 7 series?
You obviously have no idea about what you are talking about.
Best selling BMW is cheapest BMW. Best selling Lexus is not the cheapest Lexus.
Thats not an bad thing you know.
It is not about liking or not liking cars, it is not about FWD, or RWD. It is about sales statistics. It is statistics. It is not emotional. And in statistics, Lexus scores well. It is selling great, it is selling awesome. Whatever they do, whatever they sell, it works.
Fact that LS sells so well only shows strenght of the brand.
12-01-06, 06:07 PM
#43
12-01-06, 06:35 PM
#44
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What? Why do you say that? 3/5/7 sedans have always sold well, IIRC.
12-01-06, 06:47 PM
#45
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