SteVTEC

uhh... what? I heard a new Passat 2.0T winding out away from a light once and even from the opposite lane with a wide divider I could hear how loud and rough that thing sounded. It wasn't injector noise either. It had all the characteristics of a typical non-Japanese 4-cylinder engine with a lot of NVH issues. Nobody besides the Japanese really know how to build refined 4-cylinder engines, and especially not the Germans.

As far as reliability, time will tell. I know the 1.8T's had lots of issues with oil gelling and coil pack eating and who knows what else.

SteVTEC

I haven't driven any Toyota 4-cylinders recently, but a 2.4L Accord I had as a rental once was just as noisy and unrefined as the 2.4L Galant I had before that, which was about as bad as an Ecotec engine (HHR). I think all super-stroker 4-cylinders are crappy sounding and feeling, and you're just arguing about the "degree of crappiness", heh. Ironically, I preferred the sound of the Ecotec engine over the Honda and Mitsu. It actually had a nice little growl to it and sounded sporty.

SteVTEC

Ok, what do you think should be on there instead then? I think the GM LS4 ought to be on there but unfortunately GM only has it in FWD sedans right now which aren't good platforms for that engine. I would say the LS7 in the Z06 but I guess that's over the price limit. I'd say that a lot of the German/Japanese V8s are either over the price limit, or don't offer significantly better performance than the Ford 4.6L which costs half as much.

MrSilvia

How about the LS2 in the corvette? The 2.5 boxer turbo in the subaru STI, The 2.0 turbo in the mitsubishi evo, that engine has a ridiculously high HP/liter ratio. Just my opin, but I think those are higher-engineered engines that just as well belong on that list if the mustang GT engine is on there.

mavericck

Apparently you've never heard an IS250 with direct injection. They sound exactly the same as the direct injection engines in the Audi's. So you are going to base your judgement about a 2.0T engine based on sometime when you were in the opposite lane and you one take off?....a

And about your statement about only the Japanese being the only ones that know how to build refined 4-cylinder engines is ridiculous. The only reason those engines are quieter is because they do not use direct injection. Ever heard of the BMW 320i, BMW E30 M3, or the VW 1.4TSI (very impressive engine). All great 4 cylinder engines and I'm leaving out a lot.


I think the 2.0T is quite a refined, powerful, torquey, efficient, and compact engine.

Threxx

I've driven the IS250 on a couple of test drives and it had much less noise, harshness, and vibration transmitted into the cabin than my Audi's 2.0T does.

Maybe the characteristics of the sound that it makes (minus turbo whine) are similar, but without a doubt the Audi makes a whole lot more of it and makes you 'feel' it a lot more, too. Then again the whole cabin of my audi is far less insulated than the IS cabin was. Our 4runner is actually far quieter to drive on road trips aside from possibly wind noise (due to obvious disadvantage in aerodynamics)

Still... it's a fun motor to beat on and makes for a great lease vehicle IMO.

mavericck

Try opening the hoods on both cars and comparing the engine noise during idle....they will be very similar. I will agree that the Lexus isolates the cabin a bit more from engine noise. I personally like to be able to hear my engine and have a bit more driver "connectedness" but if driver isolation is important to you then the Lexus would probably be the better car.

Threxx

Well I certainly like to hear 'good' engine noises like from a nice sounding motor like a Mustang Cobra or Ferrari or whatnot... but the 2.0T just doesn't sound good to me, so I don't wanna hear it or be 'connected' to it. Especially not the buzziness and coarse vibrations. It's just not 'smooth'... a lot of 'racket'. Now if the motor is smooth but has a bark to it that sounds nice, then yeah I love to be 'connected' to that. But much like I laugh and cringe every time I hear some civic with a weedwhacker exhaust buzzing down the road near redline... I just don't think this motor makes the right music from INSIDE the cabin.

From outside/behind the car I really don't know since I've never been behind my car or another 2.0T A4 when it accelerates anything close to WOT.

A good car, to me, gives good feedback without being harsh or 'buzzy' about it. Just like you can provide good steering and suspension feedback without using back-breakingly stiff suspension components.

<VENOM>

Ford must make some engine, I see more Crown Vics and Town Cars blowing blue smoke out the tailpipes then any other make of car on the road.

The Mustang with the right aftermarket exhaust setup is heaven

SteVTEC

There is A LOT that comprises the acoustical properties (engine sound and note) and the NVH (noise, vibration, harshness) properties of an engine. Injection noise is just one very very very small part of that. Inline 4-cylinder engines are unbalanced and have extremely large unchecked 2nd order forces which are the primary cause of their tendency towards high NVH. This only gets worse at larger displacements. Things you can do to reduce NVH include adding one or even multiple balance shafts, advanced and even "active" engine mount designs, special gaskets such as on the intake manifold that can greatly reduce the transmission of the vibrational noises. Even airbox design comes into play. If you don't pay attention to this stuff and the acoustical properties of every single component on the engine from the engine cover down you could have one of your vibrational forces from your unbalanced 4-cylinder cause something else to resonate and soon you have an entire out of tune symphony making a racket. The Japanese grew up building 4-cylinders, it's what they're the best at, they know all the tricks of the trade to build relatively refined large displacement 4-cylinder engines, and everybody else is a distant second. And that's just the truth whether you accept it or not. Mercedes had such horrible NVH on their 2.3L SC engine that they reduced the displacement down to 1.8. They don't know the tricks apparently so they just made a smaller engine which is another way to fix the same problem. The VW 1.8T was not exactly a smooth and refined engine either, and that's also only a 1.8L. But the Japanese can build quiet running and refined 2.0+L I-4's without a problem, so it seems they must know something that the Germans don't.

There are entire books written on the acoustical design of engines. There are engine engineers who do nothing but acoustical design handling anything from induction noise or NVH to exhaust note. Honda in particular is pretty **** about how their engines sound, and they generally sound quite good. Ford was also **** about getting their 4.6L modular to sound "like a Mustang" when they were replacing the 5.0 and they did a real good job on that too. I love how Mustangs sound, and so do most people.

You may pop the hood and hear similar noises at idle between an Audi 2.0TFSI and a Lexus 4GR-FSE due to direct injection, but that isn't generally what people are talking about when they're talking about refinement and NVH. 60-degree V-6 engines have ZERO free 1st and 2nd order forces which is why they're a ton more refined than 4-cylinders. Only a top-notch 4-cylinder engine builder could ever get a larger displacement I-4 anywhere close to the low-NVH of a V-6, and from what i've seen and experienced that would be the better Toyota and Honda engines and that's it. It takes A LOT to dampen everything and acoustically engineer the entire vehicle just to cancel out all of the crap from a big 4-banger. Direct injection or not has little to do with any of this.

The fact that I could actually hear that Passat and all the noise and racket it was making from so far away and that it was so noticeable tells me that while they may have done a bang up job on all the other aspects of the engine design, their acoustical/NVH engineering must have just plain STUNK. To be fair I've never been behind the wheel of one, but at least from the outside the sound was horrid. It ranks right down there with old GM pushrod V6 engines before they actually started trying.

Otherwise I think the engine is outstanding and very deserving of the Ward's award.

SteVTEC

I like the LS2 too, but GM has never gotten them to sound as good as the Ford mod motors. The LS7 would be a better candidate but the Z06 exceeds the price cap, but not the Supercharged Ford 4.6 which will give you 500hp class power for not more than $54k.

The Subaru STI EJ25 was a previous Ward's winner. Nothing's changed. Still a low compression port-injected not very efficient engine. That may have been good enough for 2004, but not for today, and personally I think boxer H-4 engines sound like crap, but that's JMO. Same with the Mitsu 4G63 (not talking about sound here). What's so special about this engine other than tunability? Again there's more to a great engine than high HP/L. Note that all the turbocharged engines on the list this year are also direct injected. The Mazda is, along with the VW/Audi, and also the BMW N54. Direct injection allows turbocharged gasoline/petrol engines to stop much of the historical efficiency losses of these type of engines by allowing them to run more naturally aspirated like compression ratios with the added knock resistance of DI. So DI turbo engines no longer have to suffer from the miserable part/light-load efficiency of historical gasoline turbocharged engines. The Suby and Mitsu engines are exactly that - historical. 8.2:1 compression in the Suby and 8.8:1 compression in the Mitsu is sooooo 1990's, lol. In that respect they're lesser engineered engines. The Acura RDX's brand new turbo engine is still port injected with 8.8:1 compression and isn't nearly as efficient as the RAV4 which has similar power from a Ward's 10 Best winning NA V6. That's probably why the RDX engine isn't on there either.

SteVTEC

And then you look at the odometers and you know why.

Threxx

The LS2 is more impressive to me in almost every regard than the SOHC 3V 4.6 modular ford motor. Though I will admit I had no idea they were using vvt? The 2v was not, was it? So when they went from 260 to 300hp they not only gained a valve but vvt as well? Interesting though it makes the 40hp gain from 'just a valve per cylinder gained' less surprising, I guess, than I originally thought.

The LS3 will be out for 2007 MY with 450 hp and probably still great gas milage and dynamics in general. Plus it will likely not only be in the Vette but also the all new Camaro, as the 'premium' V8 option.

<VENOM>

I just realized that