xioix

In 2002 I wouldn't consider Audi or Inifinti to be the same level as Lexus BMW, and Mercedes

Although I agree with the Lincoln part, I guess the Navigator is really putting them over that hump

-J-P-L-

So an Audi A8L isn't luxury but a Lincoln LS or Zephyr is?



I don't think so.

Dabigman

No way Volvo's "Product Excellence" is higher than Toyota, Honda, and Acura. Volvo's are and have been junk for quite a while now.

tuan92129

Lincoln = rebadged ford

javyLSU

iTrader: (21)

We also have to take into consideration that this chart is almost 5 years old now. I think Kia and Hyundai would be a bit higher, Oldsmobile would obviously be off. We should start a poll to see how we would arrange this brands TODAY. I think it would be quite interesting...

Javier

mmarshall

I agree it's a good idea, but out of courtesy to the person who started this thread in the first place, let's leave that up to him. What do you think, LexArazzo?

thetopdog

Lincoln and Audi should definitely switch places on that chart

And it's sad to see that Jaguar has fallen off so badly they're not even mentioned

bitkahuna

iTrader: (20)

You also then believe Infiniti's are rebadged Nissans, Lexus are rebadged Toyotas, and Acuras are just rebadged Hondas (this last one is for a model like the EL in Canada).

thetopdog

I understand what you're saying, but Lincolns really are rebadged Fords. Every single product in Lincoln's lineup is basically a rebodied Ford. And this is coming from a guy that (used to?) likes Lincolns. I wanted a Mark VIII for the longest time.

The ES350 is bascially a rebadged Camry, and some of the Acuras are basically Hondas in fancier clothing, but these companies also have cars that aren't just more expensive twins of less expensive mass market cars. Lincoln doesn't. Plus Infiniti doesn't belong there since they stopped making the I30, the similarities between the G35 and the 350Z not withstanding.

mmarshall

You guys are both correct on this, to some extent. Nissans and Infinitis, Hondas and Acuras, Toyotas and Lexuses, etc...in many cases ( not all by any means ) DO come from the same common platform, drivetrain, and often the same unibody structures. But usually the upmarket versions of the cars will have noticeably better interiors, more standard and optional equipment, and in general, be more pleasant to drive, either from a luxury or a sporty point of view. Warranties, in some cases, are also longer on premium nameplates. So, in one sense, a Lincoln IS a rebadged Ford......in another sense it most definitely is NOT.
If this was not the case, there would be little reason for spending the extra money for the upmarket versions....the manufacturers have to give you something for the extra bucks you fork out. And, in some cases, the upmarket cars may be little or no more expensive than their lower-ranking cousins when incentives, dealer willingness to discount, and supply-and-demand pricing is taken into account.

-J-P-L-

Mmarshall is right.
A company's upscale division isn't as simple as a rebadged version of the parent company's model. A Mercury is most definately a rebadged Ford but Lincoln is a lot dfferent. Sharing a platform and some other parts doesn't make them the same.

I'm also tired of the Camry/ES relating by people. Drive an ES and tell me again that it is just a rebadged Camry. There's a whole world of difference.

mmarshall

Yes, the former ES330 was a superb car...noticeably better than the Camry in interior plushness, noise isolation, paint quality, warranty coverage, and overall refinement, but the excellent but more utilitarian Camry, of course, formed a good base for it..a starting point...and the top-line Camry XLE V6 was almost as nice as an ES.
The new ES, unfortunately, is a big disappontment, for several reasons......which I have already covered in other threads and posts and whill not re-hash here.

Gojirra99

You guys can do whatever you like I do not know what kind of poll you have in mind though, regarding the kind of questions/options to put on the poll. Any suggestions ?

mmarshall

Well, the first thing to do, obviously, is to remove Oldsmobile from the list.
Then, Jaguar should be added...it was somehow left out.

I would also add Isuzu, despite its small size in the American market with GM-rebadged trucks, Land Rover, Porsche, and Suzuki...those brands were also omitted.

I agree that Maserati, Ferrari, and Lamborghini should stay out....their products are generally too expensive or don't sell in significant enough numbers to be a factor nationwide, though you find them in SoCal and to a lesser extent here in the D.C. area.

Lotus is a question mark (?)......they are very small but growing.

bitkahuna

iTrader: (20)

Same platforms yes, but I just opened my AutoWeek to read of their review of the Lincoln MKX which you would say is a rebadged Ford Edge, and they say the extra $6K is 'worth it', with the interior being worlds better and it's more refined.

Anyway, we all know manufacturers share platforms across brands. This is nothing new. But to say it's just rebadged is inaccurate.