Is This The Same Car Company?
12-26-06 | 12:25 PM
#16
Racer
Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 1,273
Likes: 2
From: California
The transmission on my ES330 is OK. There is a minor feeling of being held back on some, more spirited starts from a dead stop. The GX transmission is absolutely, positively perfect. On the LS460, initially, a once in a while hesitation was present but that seems to be going away now. I did get a call from Lexus corporate a few weeks ago asking for responses on the new purchase. The hesitation was mentioned to that person who assured me it would be forwarded. But, who knows where that might be ? 
I've had a 2005 and a 2006 and currently a 2007 GX470 and I agree, the transmission in the GX470 is perfect.
12-26-06 | 12:51 PM
#17
Lexus Champion
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 19,951
Likes: 171
Okay, you made me smile (even chuckle a little out loud). Come on now, though, you have to admit that it's more than just the proverbial "handful" of people repeating the same things. I'm sure you saw my post the other day about what the head tech at my dealership said to me the other day -- "customers are coming into service in droves with ES350 tranny problems." To the best of my knowledge, not a single one of those persons is reporting their problems on CL. I'll agree that there are 4-5 people who are repeating the same information on various threads, but there are at least 20 more who chime in once in a while, and there are many, many more people (like the "droves" being serviced at my dealership) who are not reporting in at all.
I have been around 2 major engine issues, that caused forums to be bombed with unhappy customers, and we only had 4 customers with the problem in our dealership, which was less than 2% of cars sold. And this was major, catastrophics failure.
So, yeah, I dont think 4 people are quite representative of tens of thousands of ES350 owners.
But problem isnt in transmission flare - which is very valid problem for people that experience it.
Problem is that some of the posters make some very uneducated guesses on things that might or might not be wrong with their cars, and they expect ES350 to have better quality than LS.
People who have had ES330 have stated in numerous posts that ES350 is better car than ES330.
12-26-06 | 12:53 PM
#18
Lead Lap
Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 410
Likes: 0
From: ca
This make no sense. Lexus should be able to tell you if the next ES350 you buy will have the tranny issue. If they cannot, they are complete idiots. They surely have to know by now which VIN's have the issue and what the corrective action is. It has been months for gosh sakes.
If Lexus cannot do simple process elimination, I would opt for a GS or lease a BMW for two years and then check back. I will take a little less reliability for a good driving car. The LS is not for me and some folks have complained about the tranny there as well. There is nothing wrong with the LS tranny from what I have seen, just folks do not like the shift program, they say it is annoying. If you are mainly a Lexus driver, you might not be bothered by the tranny as you get used to it.
If Lexus cannot do simple process elimination, I would opt for a GS or lease a BMW for two years and then check back. I will take a little less reliability for a good driving car. The LS is not for me and some folks have complained about the tranny there as well. There is nothing wrong with the LS tranny from what I have seen, just folks do not like the shift program, they say it is annoying. If you are mainly a Lexus driver, you might not be bothered by the tranny as you get used to it.
This is why I am thinking of buying the LS460 instead of the ES350 this time around.
12-26-06 | 12:58 PM
#19
Lead Lap
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 488
Likes: 0
From: CA
Lexus doesn't know what causes the transmission flare. If they did, they could tell me which VINs have the problem and could also fix the initial problem that causes the flare. Lexus just tells me that only some of the ES350s have this transmission flaring issue and that my next ES350 probably won't have this problem. At least Lexus is being honest by telling me that they CANNOT guarantee that my next ES350 won't have this problem.
This is why I am thinking of buying the LS460 instead of the ES350 this time around.
This is why I am thinking of buying the LS460 instead of the ES350 this time around.
12-26-06 | 01:00 PM
#20
Lead Lap
Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 410
Likes: 0
From: ca
If you really want to read about the ES350 transmission issue and see that there are WAY MORE than 4 or 5 people having problems with their defective transmissions, you should check out the ES350 forum where there are multiple threads/polls on this subject. You will notice that Lexus has a TSIB for the transmission flare that my dealer and corporate has decided NOT to perform, because it just doesn't work. To make it worse, they don't have a solution for the problem except to order a new transmission.
I don't think Sick likes it (and I don't know why)...but these are just the facts!
12-26-06 | 01:42 PM
#21
Lexus Champion
Joined: Aug 2006
Posts: 11,319
Likes: 141
From: Illinois
obviously LS is twice as expensive, so yes, they can not be of the same quality.
But at the same time, most of the issues and threads there and ond edmunds are posted by same people, over and over... There are quite few ppl there who posted that they love their new ES as well...
But at the same time, most of the issues and threads there and ond edmunds are posted by same people, over and over... There are quite few ppl there who posted that they love their new ES as well...
Last edited by LexBob2; 12-26-06 at 02:02 PM.
12-26-06 | 03:02 PM
#22
Driver School Candidate
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 45
Likes: 1
From: Colorado
First let me say I am not attacking anyone, this problem exists, but I am going after the possibility that this is widespread. This is only my .02, and I will say when some of us post we have had no problems we are often ignored and or blasted as being stupid and not knowing the difference.
I have seen throughout these forums problems on all cars, some more serious than others. Saw some for the gs that involved upper and lower control arms, 3rd gen,. OK some folks on here think this is wide spread, and maybe it is but I am going to ask that someone give us some real data, I mean data not silly polls that dont ask positive and negative questions, dont have varying questions that offset bias, something much like you would do a normal study. This happens on every forum, even my dirt bike forums, a few folks post and post and post...bla bla bla...now all of a sudden it is a widespread problem...still nothing to prove it.
I have a 10/06 build ES350 and none of these problems exist. None. I have a buddy that is a GM of a toyota dealer, they have moved 150 camry's in 6 months and only one has come back for the "flair" problem. They sent the car away to Toyota and gave the guy a new car, how do I know he being honest, well he's been a best friend for 15 years and I know that every time one comes in like that it costs him money out of his pocket. when an issue like this comes up, the GM will loose money on this deal because Toyota wont pay him the normal rate for repairs when it is considered a warranty item. Thats how a GM makes their money....fingers in each pocket.
But I am not disputing this is happening only that it is widespread, I am sure it is happening to some folks, but if you read the forums and this is a pretty small one in comparision to other forums out there, you will see the same folks often complaing about the same issues, same problem different day, it is pretty repetitive, and if you compare the number of folks that own the ES and have a login you might see things differently. Again I am not saying it isnt happening, my dealer told me he has seen a couple, both ended up fixed and they followed up very carefully with the owners, how do I know well he is the GSM and I know him too. I just think it is absolutely silly to say this is widespread when all that has been done is a grade school poll, dont do your thesis this way...youll get laughed at.
Anyway Ill let folks know if this happens to me, but so far none. I think this is a great car.
I have seen throughout these forums problems on all cars, some more serious than others. Saw some for the gs that involved upper and lower control arms, 3rd gen,. OK some folks on here think this is wide spread, and maybe it is but I am going to ask that someone give us some real data, I mean data not silly polls that dont ask positive and negative questions, dont have varying questions that offset bias, something much like you would do a normal study. This happens on every forum, even my dirt bike forums, a few folks post and post and post...bla bla bla...now all of a sudden it is a widespread problem...still nothing to prove it.
I have a 10/06 build ES350 and none of these problems exist. None. I have a buddy that is a GM of a toyota dealer, they have moved 150 camry's in 6 months and only one has come back for the "flair" problem. They sent the car away to Toyota and gave the guy a new car, how do I know he being honest, well he's been a best friend for 15 years and I know that every time one comes in like that it costs him money out of his pocket. when an issue like this comes up, the GM will loose money on this deal because Toyota wont pay him the normal rate for repairs when it is considered a warranty item. Thats how a GM makes their money....fingers in each pocket.
But I am not disputing this is happening only that it is widespread, I am sure it is happening to some folks, but if you read the forums and this is a pretty small one in comparision to other forums out there, you will see the same folks often complaing about the same issues, same problem different day, it is pretty repetitive, and if you compare the number of folks that own the ES and have a login you might see things differently. Again I am not saying it isnt happening, my dealer told me he has seen a couple, both ended up fixed and they followed up very carefully with the owners, how do I know well he is the GSM and I know him too. I just think it is absolutely silly to say this is widespread when all that has been done is a grade school poll, dont do your thesis this way...youll get laughed at.
Anyway Ill let folks know if this happens to me, but so far none. I think this is a great car.
12-26-06 | 03:02 PM
#23
Lexus Champion
Joined: Aug 2006
Posts: 2,766
Likes: 2
From: Florida
rjm,
It is very thoughtful and considerate of you to have taken the time to visit the ES350 forum and to openly express your observations.
It seems a thread generated by you is also not exempt from the same few immediately offering repetitious claims events are supposedly only happening to some offered small subset of vehicles or supposedly expressed only by some minority of actual owners.
The numerous owner experiences with the vehicle represented in the owners poll and in some cases the treatment received by them expressed in posts as they attempt a resolution are both without excuse and I also wonder why myself.
I really like participating in Club Lexus because of people like you for your thoughtfulness and the support received from other member/owners, humor as well on the ES350 Forum, other Forums on Club Lexus.
It is very thoughtful and considerate of you to have taken the time to visit the ES350 forum and to openly express your observations.
It seems a thread generated by you is also not exempt from the same few immediately offering repetitious claims events are supposedly only happening to some offered small subset of vehicles or supposedly expressed only by some minority of actual owners.
The numerous owner experiences with the vehicle represented in the owners poll and in some cases the treatment received by them expressed in posts as they attempt a resolution are both without excuse and I also wonder why myself.
I really like participating in Club Lexus because of people like you for your thoughtfulness and the support received from other member/owners, humor as well on the ES350 Forum, other Forums on Club Lexus.
12-26-06 | 04:16 PM
#24
Lead Lap
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 756
Likes: 2
From: WA
The plan for my wife and myself was to purchase an LS460 in a year or so. As the LS460 wasn't available back in April 06 and considering this would be the first time we'd spent this much money on a car, we decided to purchase an ES350 instead.
This is our first Lexus. We thought we'd be well taken care of, and once we'd experienced all the Lexus greatness we'd happily move up to the new LS. I really like the LS and even the GX as well.
But being one of those ES350 owners affected by most of the issues on that model - including being on the second trans that still has problems - I'm not going to buy the LS460. From my standpoint I know exactly what Lexus will do when confronted with a problem they can't solve (trans\wind noise\steering-console-door-floor vibration), and that's basically n-o-t-h-i-n-g. I can't in good faith take that chance of having to go through this all over again, there are plenty of other manufacturers that will provide a much better ownership experience than I've had so far.
So the reason I'm not buying an LS460 if because of my ES350 experience.
This is our first Lexus. We thought we'd be well taken care of, and once we'd experienced all the Lexus greatness we'd happily move up to the new LS. I really like the LS and even the GX as well.
But being one of those ES350 owners affected by most of the issues on that model - including being on the second trans that still has problems - I'm not going to buy the LS460. From my standpoint I know exactly what Lexus will do when confronted with a problem they can't solve (trans\wind noise\steering-console-door-floor vibration), and that's basically n-o-t-h-i-n-g. I can't in good faith take that chance of having to go through this all over again, there are plenty of other manufacturers that will provide a much better ownership experience than I've had so far.
So the reason I'm not buying an LS460 if because of my ES350 experience.
12-26-06 | 05:32 PM
#25
Lexus Champion
Joined: Aug 2006
Posts: 11,319
Likes: 141
From: Illinois
First let me say I am not attacking anyone, this problem exists, but I am going after the possibility that this is widespread. This is only my .02, and I will say when some of us post we have had no problems we are often ignored and or blasted as being stupid and not knowing the difference.
I have seen throughout these forums problems on all cars, some more serious than others. Saw some for the gs that involved upper and lower control arms, 3rd gen,. OK some folks on here think this is wide spread, and maybe it is but I am going to ask that someone give us some real data, I mean data not silly polls that dont ask positive and negative questions, dont have varying questions that offset bias, something much like you would do a normal study. This happens on every forum, even my dirt bike forums, a few folks post and post and post...bla bla bla...now all of a sudden it is a widespread problem...still nothing to prove it.
I have a 10/06 build ES350 and none of these problems exist. None. I have a buddy that is a GM of a toyota dealer, they have moved 150 camry's in 6 months and only one has come back for the "flair" problem. They sent the car away to Toyota and gave the guy a new car, how do I know he being honest, well he's been a best friend for 15 years and I know that every time one comes in like that it costs him money out of his pocket. when an issue like this comes up, the GM will loose money on this deal because Toyota wont pay him the normal rate for repairs when it is considered a warranty item. Thats how a GM makes their money....fingers in each pocket.
But I am not disputing this is happening only that it is widespread, I am sure it is happening to some folks, but if you read the forums and this is a pretty small one in comparision to other forums out there, you will see the same folks often complaing about the same issues, same problem different day, it is pretty repetitive, and if you compare the number of folks that own the ES and have a login you might see things differently. Again I am not saying it isnt happening, my dealer told me he has seen a couple, both ended up fixed and they followed up very carefully with the owners, how do I know well he is the GSM and I know him too. I just think it is absolutely silly to say this is widespread when all that has been done is a grade school poll, dont do your thesis this way...youll get laughed at.
Anyway Ill let folks know if this happens to me, but so far none. I think this is a great car.
I have seen throughout these forums problems on all cars, some more serious than others. Saw some for the gs that involved upper and lower control arms, 3rd gen,. OK some folks on here think this is wide spread, and maybe it is but I am going to ask that someone give us some real data, I mean data not silly polls that dont ask positive and negative questions, dont have varying questions that offset bias, something much like you would do a normal study. This happens on every forum, even my dirt bike forums, a few folks post and post and post...bla bla bla...now all of a sudden it is a widespread problem...still nothing to prove it.
I have a 10/06 build ES350 and none of these problems exist. None. I have a buddy that is a GM of a toyota dealer, they have moved 150 camry's in 6 months and only one has come back for the "flair" problem. They sent the car away to Toyota and gave the guy a new car, how do I know he being honest, well he's been a best friend for 15 years and I know that every time one comes in like that it costs him money out of his pocket. when an issue like this comes up, the GM will loose money on this deal because Toyota wont pay him the normal rate for repairs when it is considered a warranty item. Thats how a GM makes their money....fingers in each pocket.
But I am not disputing this is happening only that it is widespread, I am sure it is happening to some folks, but if you read the forums and this is a pretty small one in comparision to other forums out there, you will see the same folks often complaing about the same issues, same problem different day, it is pretty repetitive, and if you compare the number of folks that own the ES and have a login you might see things differently. Again I am not saying it isnt happening, my dealer told me he has seen a couple, both ended up fixed and they followed up very carefully with the owners, how do I know well he is the GSM and I know him too. I just think it is absolutely silly to say this is widespread when all that has been done is a grade school poll, dont do your thesis this way...youll get laughed at.
Anyway Ill let folks know if this happens to me, but so far none. I think this is a great car.
Last edited by LexBob2; 12-26-06 at 06:24 PM.
12-27-06 | 07:57 PM
#26
Driver School Candidate
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 45
Likes: 1
From: Colorado
LexBob2, thats my point exactly, there is no way this forum or any other can really determine if this is wide spread or not. Not a chance. There are 210 posts and 24K views of the Offical Lexus ES 350 ROLLCALL!!! and that doesnt in any way compare to the individual posts on other threads. The closest thread is 142 posts and at least half are by the same folks of which 18 folks has said they have the tranny issue out of 142 posts, dont know the number of individual users yet.
Heck wasnt the Camry is voted the best car of the year by motor trend, and which tranny does that have? Again I am also sorry this has taken space on the LS forum also but I am not going to let incomplete data go unnoticed. I agree, we dont know yet, but there are a lot of folks sending folks away from Lexus because they use incomplete and unscientific data (WAY MORE than 4 or 5 people, really?), and lets face it it IS primarily the same folks complaining over and over again, not that they dont have a problem and believe me I feel for those folks I really do, but the data on this forum in realistic terms is somewhat insignificant, no one has polled the hundreds of folks that love their Lexus ES350. Hey in two years Ill admit it the LS is my next ride, unless MB comes out with something better. Anyway as I said before pn another thread this something that can never be resoved on a forum.
Heck wasnt the Camry is voted the best car of the year by motor trend, and which tranny does that have? Again I am also sorry this has taken space on the LS forum also but I am not going to let incomplete data go unnoticed. I agree, we dont know yet, but there are a lot of folks sending folks away from Lexus because they use incomplete and unscientific data (WAY MORE than 4 or 5 people, really?), and lets face it it IS primarily the same folks complaining over and over again, not that they dont have a problem and believe me I feel for those folks I really do, but the data on this forum in realistic terms is somewhat insignificant, no one has polled the hundreds of folks that love their Lexus ES350. Hey in two years Ill admit it the LS is my next ride, unless MB comes out with something better
. Anyway as I said before pn another thread this something that can never be resoved on a forum.
Last edited by Mlawler; 12-27-06 at 08:02 PM.
12-27-06 | 08:03 PM
#27
Lead Lap
Joined: Apr 2004
Posts: 3,505
Likes: 43
From: Illinois
LexBob2, thats my point exactly, there is no way this forum or any other can really determine if this is wide spread or not. Not a chance. There are 210 posts and 24K views of the Offical Lexus ES 350 ROLLCALL!!! and that doesnt in any way compare to the individual posts on other threads. The closest thread is 142 posts and at least half are by the same folks.
Heck wasnt the Camry is voted the best car of the year by motor trend, and which tranny does that have? Again I am also sorry this has taken space on the LS forum also but I am not going to let incomplete data go unnoticed. I agree, we dont know yet, but there are a lot of folks sending folks away from Lexus because they use incomplete and unscientific data (WAY MORE than 4 or 5 people, really?), and lets face it it IS primarily the same folks complaining over and over again, not that they dont have a problem and believe me I feel for those folks I really do, but the data on this forum in realistic terms is somewhat insignificant, no one has polled the hundreds of folks that love their Lexus ES350. Hey in two years Ill admit it the LS is my next ride, unless MB comes out with something better. Anyway as I said before pn another thread this something that can never be resoved on a forum.
Heck wasnt the Camry is voted the best car of the year by motor trend, and which tranny does that have? Again I am also sorry this has taken space on the LS forum also but I am not going to let incomplete data go unnoticed. I agree, we dont know yet, but there are a lot of folks sending folks away from Lexus because they use incomplete and unscientific data (WAY MORE than 4 or 5 people, really?), and lets face it it IS primarily the same folks complaining over and over again, not that they dont have a problem and believe me I feel for those folks I really do, but the data on this forum in realistic terms is somewhat insignificant, no one has polled the hundreds of folks that love their Lexus ES350. Hey in two years Ill admit it the LS is my next ride, unless MB comes out with something better
. Anyway as I said before pn another thread this something that can never be resoved on a forum.
12-27-06 | 08:17 PM
#28
Driver School Candidate
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 45
Likes: 1
From: Colorado
well the most of the posts in that forum are from the same folks with the problem (again it stinks if you experience this I am sure), it is very easy to see, and I agree it isnt 4-5 folks more like 18-25. But it is a pretty negative forum because of a few and turns people ways fairly quickly. I sit on about 8 different forums about motor vehicles and motorcycles and the ES forum is "the" most negative I have seen yet, even the Camry guys dont get this bad, and dont report half the problems.
Sorry LS folks, I am done now...
Sorry LS folks, I am done now...
12-28-06 | 12:33 AM
#29
it would be almost stupid for me not to say that i am disappointed in the es350 launch. it really put some deep marks on lexus history. especially with the ls460 launch so close (and important), it's definitely not a good thing
being in the 01-05 es300/330 more than a few times, i really have to say that it's a very solid and nice car (minus the exterior style). for a daily driver i have no issues. but the new es350 i am really not too thrilled about, in fact i really wonder how much of a stepdown it is from the previous generations.
and then recently i saw all the complaints and issues people have with the es350, i was just shocked... i definitely hope they are first model year issues with lexus, and they better be.
i am thankful that the ls460 so far is receiving very good reviews and responses from owners, and being their big time flagship launch in recent years, i hope lexus has put enough effort to make sure this car is clean. but with 4 new cars in 3 years, i guess the es350 has become the victim of bad QC?
lexus please make sure you do not sacrifice anything while taking over....
being in the 01-05 es300/330 more than a few times, i really have to say that it's a very solid and nice car (minus the exterior style). for a daily driver i have no issues. but the new es350 i am really not too thrilled about, in fact i really wonder how much of a stepdown it is from the previous generations.
and then recently i saw all the complaints and issues people have with the es350, i was just shocked... i definitely hope they are first model year issues with lexus, and they better be.
i am thankful that the ls460 so far is receiving very good reviews and responses from owners, and being their big time flagship launch in recent years, i hope lexus has put enough effort to make sure this car is clean. but with 4 new cars in 3 years, i guess the es350 has become the victim of bad QC?
lexus please make sure you do not sacrifice anything while taking over....
12-28-06 | 06:14 AM
#30
Lexus Champion
Joined: Aug 2006
Posts: 2,766
Likes: 2
From: Florida
but the new es350 i am really not too thrilled about, in fact i really wonder how much of a stepdown it is from the previous generations.
and then recently i saw all the complaints and issues people have with the es350, i was just shocked... i definitely hope they are first model year issues with lexus, and they better be.
and then recently i saw all the complaints and issues people have with the es350, i was just shocked... i definitely hope they are first model year issues with lexus, and they better be.
I owned 2 ES300 prior to ending up selecting the first ES350 of two about which I expected no less an experience than that of the 2 ES300 I owned spanning years.
I do not understand what appears to be repeated denial of issues associated with the car. I see 32 ES350 owner/CL members out of 123 polled reporting just transmission problems misrepresented and claimed to be at best 18, or minimized to some handful. I even see reversed statistical mathematics used to attempt to diminish the potential number of vehicles involved as well.
Although I have not had a pleasant experience with either ES350, the bright spot for me are many of those associated with Club Lexus, including those who own the LS who take time to visit other forums and openly express their opinions.
I am pleased to see how well the LS is serving it's owners from forum input here on CL from actual owners. While some may try to diminish the data available to Club Lexus members on the ES350 from other owner/members, Club Lexus is THE best place to get info on anything with wheels that has a Lexus emblem on it.
View Poll Results: Multiple Choice: What problems do you have with your 2007 ES350?
Transmission shift flaring 32 26.02%
Cold engine start noise 20 16.26%
Wind noise 29 23.58%
Interior rattles 29 23.58%
Voice Recognition for climate control 29 23.58%
I have none of the problems listed above 39 31.71%
Multiple Choice Poll. Voters: 123.