Overclocker

Date posted: 12-26-2006

DETROIT — Lightweight, efficient carbon-ceramic brakes — normally seen only on ultra-high-priced racing cars and exotics — could someday be affordable to drivers on slightly smaller budgets.

Audi and SGL Carbon of Germany are reportedly involved in an effort to reduce the cost of manufacturing the brakes. Reports included no confirmation from Audi about its role in the project but quoted an SGL Carbon spokesman, who projected that the cost of a carbon disc could be reduced to about $465.

That's still pretty high compared to the cost of a steel disc (approximately $240 retail from leading parts suppliers), but cheap in comparison to the cost of producing a carbon-ceramic part, which could amount to a range of $665-$2,660, according to one report.

The advantages of carbon-ceramic brakes are lighter weight, extended life and extreme performance. Carbon discs are less susceptible to friction loss or damage due to severe heat.

What it means to you: Better is, by definition, better. But whether carbon-ceramic brakes can be made inexpensively enough to make them a smart choice for large quantities of consumers remains to be seen.

Source: http://www.edmunds.com/insideline/do...ticleId=118978

Seize

That certainly sounds promising

Threxx

I wonder if aside from the performance aspect they really are cost effective?

Like what is the cost of maintenance of a carbon ceramic rotor equipped brake system compared to a standard brake system? So they warp less? Or do they warp at all? Are they susceptible to pad material buildup? How long do they last? How is the pad life affected and are more expensive pads required?

There's usually some other con involved with something like this other than just a somewhat small price increase.

All I can say is I'm pretty disappointed with most of the Lexus lineup's brake life. I'm hearing reports of GS4 brakes requiring pad replacement between 15 and 25k miles, which is just ridiculous for ANY car unless it's having the crap beat out of it.

My mother in law's RX350 with only 9000 relatively easy driven miles (a lot of them highway miles, too) just required replacement of all 4 rotors due to warping... though at least that was warrantied.

spwolf

if you are dissapointed with life of Lexus brakes, then you wouldnt want to consider ceramic brakes, ever :-)

Threxx

Then why does the article say advantages include extended life? Extended life compared to what?

Lexus brake life expectancies just don't really impress me at all. A "reliable" 50k dollar Lexus that requires a full brake service at 20k miles while a "POS" GM that costs half as much makes it over 100k miles on the original pads and unresurfaced rotors? I think reliability should factor in high dollar "regular" maintenance requirements, too.

mavericck

Don't mind spywolf, Carbon Ceramic brakes are far superior in every way including life to steel ones.

DriftNsc3

I always buy ceramic brakes, not brake dust,or very little at all

mmarshall

I'm all for it.

While disc brakes, in general, have several advantages over drums, a notorious problem of metal rotors since Day One has been their tendency to warp from heat buildup, especially the solid, unvented rear rotors that come on many non-high-performance cars. You do NOT necessarily have to drive and brake hard, or ride the brakes continuously down a long mountain road, for this to happen..........it can, and often does, happen even from normal, easy use in everyday driving. When that happens, it usually means one of two things.......either taking the brakes apart and putting the rotors on a lathe-like machine that shaves off the warpage and refinishes them ( providing there is enough metal left on the rotors to do this...that spec is determined by engineers ) or just replacing them outright, which sometimes can be done for little or no extra money when labor is taken into account.
But...some cars ( Hondas and Acuras in particular ) are extremely sensitive to brake jobs and will be problematic if the job is not done exactly right and the rotors not washed and finished exactly to specs.

Obviously, the ideal solution for this problem is to use materials for the rotors that will not warp in the first place....and ceramics may indeed be the answer.

Lexmex

I like the Lexus pads I am using on my RX300, and they are much better than the ones in 2002. However, I have used postmarket pads like EBC and Hawk with some good success, but there would have to be a HUGE improvement for me to consider something like this.

RON430

You are probably talking about pads while the focus here is the rotors. The ceramic/carbon composites handle heat better with lower coefficient of thermal expansion which means less warping issues and even better performance when hot. But it does come at a price, as the original article noted. Race cars use these where allowed by their sanctioning body but then they aren't too concerned about the costs of maintaining them, just the unfair advantage that they may give. It's really a natural that Audi would be looking at this as Porsche probably has more development and experience with ceramic rotors on street vehicles than anyone.

DASHOCKER

iTrader: (2)

These brakes really need to get hot to be effective. Not practical for a daily driven vehicle in the USA. It will work perfect in Germany

mmarshall

You can get brakes plenty hot even in American driving conditions......you don't have to slam them on from 150 MPH on the Autobahn to do that.

4TehNguyen

iTrader: (1)

dont these carbon ceramic rotors actually get consumed at a faster rate than the normal rotors to the point where they have to be replaced often

mmarshall

Yes, at current technology levels, they do wear quicker than metal rotors, but the flip side is that you don't ever have to worry about that annoying...and sometimes harmful......pulsation and shimmy in the brake pedal from warped rotors. Ceramic rotors can withstand enormous heat buildup and stay true.....hence their increasing popularity in racing and high-performance cars.

Nextourer

I was wondering about that. One of my dad's service check had "machined front rotor - warped"

I'm like.. what? why is the rotor warped? It's only a Camry.